Building an engine block from plate steel?

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I know this question is a little off the wall and many may not understand why I am asking.  Is it possible to weld together a V-8 engine block from plate steel?  The main reasons I am looking at doing this are:1) Strength, there is only one aftermarket block for this engine and they didn't add material in the main webbing where they are prone to cracking.  Maybe making this block skirted too so the caps can be crossbolted as well to help prevent cap walk as well.2) Engine size, the basic design of the engine has some very nice features like spacious bore spacing (not to be confused with bore size, I'm refering to the center distance of one bore to the  center of the next).  This engines bore spacing is huge but can't be utilized because of design.   Also possibly move the camshaft location up and widen the oil pan rails to be able to run a big stroke crankshaft.Weight is not an issue in the application I want to use it.  Having a thick deck surface for better gasket sealing would be a plus as well, but the head will be o-ringed too.  The main thing is being strong and hopefully getting 700-800 cid out of it.  I would like to get some opinions on this as I am not a welder (but it would be done by a professional) but I use to be an automotive machinist so I understand what needs to be done after it is welded to do final machining and correct the distortion from the heat generated.
Reply:WOW!!  that's a question.   I would think you would go with alum.  I'am sure it can be done!  I don't know how.   there must be a reason there not out there. cost I would guessDaye
Reply:I'll wait for the movie about it to come out.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:There was an automobile that had an engine made of steel plate in the early part of the 20th century.  Sorry, I can't remember the name.  I was thinking it was a Crossley, but a search didn't say anything about the type of engine.Anyway, that would be a far cry from the size of engine you're talking about.America Needs AMERICA'S Oil!!!"Global warming is the greatest scam in history ...There is no run away climate change. The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril."--John Coleman, Founder of The Weather Channel
Reply:Well it has been done before from what I have read.  I just don't know how feasible it is or would it even hold together?  I'm not too keen on using aluminum because of its high expansion rate.  Also this if for a pulling truck and the added weight over the front axle wouldn't be a bad thing.  I know that a few of the early TVR race cars used fabricated blocks like this (speed12 maybe?).  Also large induatrial engines, and mudpumps used in the drilling industry are made of plate steel.  The crosly engine you are talking about was developed for the army or navy and was a small 4 cylinder to be used as a power unit.  My main concern is with making a big cubic inch engine and putting a lot of fuel and boost to it (75-100 psi possibly) would it hold together.  I don't see how 1/2"-1" plate steel could be any weaker than cast iron, and I was always told that a good weld is stronger than the surounding metal (but I'm not a welder and don't know if that is true).
Reply:Man, while it could be done, a machined from billet aluminum block would be a better idea. Personally?? I feel the welding will result in far too many warps in the block, and final machining and matching the crank and cams will result in a very very short main bearing and piston ring life. Zap is a machinist, he can elaborate on how tight the clearances have to be, and how much variation from true the cylinders could be before it's Kablooey time. My guess is only about .005 off true, and it's in trouble. because it would be .005 this way on one cylinder, and .005 that way on another, and you're all of a sudden out of whatck by .015, and that is not going to make for a happy crankshaft......And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve45There was an automobile that had an engine made of steel plate in the early part of the 20th century.  Sorry, I can't remember the name.  I was thinking it was a Crossley, but a search didn't say anything about the type of engine.Anyway, that would be a far cry from the size of engine you're talking about.
Reply:ask a machine shop about machining a fabricated steel block, I don't think you'll be able to find a engine machine shop to do this. I always have thought about building a one cylinder the way your describing utilizeing a sleeve from a diesel engine with an exposed crankshaft, some day I will do this just so I can say I made my own motor"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal"   -Henry Ford
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloMan, while it could be done, a machined from billet aluminum block would be a better idea. Personally?? I feel the welding will result in far too many warps in the block, and final machining and matching the crank and cams will result in a very very short main bearing and piston ring life. Zap is a machinist, he can elaborate on how tight the clearances have to be, and how much variation from true the cylinders could be before it's Kablooey time. My guess is only about .005 off true, and it's in trouble. because it would be .005 this way on one cylinder, and .005 that way on another, and you're all of a sudden out of whatck by .015, and that is not going to make for a happy crankshaft......
Reply:There's no reason why it can't be done . . . but there are big challenges in engineering and machining.  You won't be able to run the pistons or the tappets on the steel surfaces.  They will need to be sleeved.  I'd also recommend you have the weldment normalized before machining.    Instead of a new block, would a girdle provide enough reinforcement for the main webs?  I'm suggesting a one-piece fabrication that incorporates all five main caps and adds a skirt to the block . . .The stroke would still be limited by the existing block, but the strength and stiffness would be greatly improved.  I see this as a 3 inch burn-out with some (significant) machining.Jim
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedThere's no reason why it can't be done . . . but there are big challenges in engineering and machining.  You won't be able to run the pistons or the tappets on the steel surfaces.  They will need to be sleeved.  I'd also recommend you have the weldment normalized before machining.    Instead of a new block, would a girdle provide enough reinforcement for the main webs?  I'm suggesting a one-piece fabrication that incorporates all five main caps and adds a skirt to the block . . .The stroke would still be limited by the existing block, but the strength and stiffness would be greatly improved.  I see this as a 3 inch burn-out with some (significant) machining.Jim
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedThere's no reason why it can't be done . . . but there are big challenges in engineering and machining.  You won't be able to run the pistons or the tappets on the steel surfaces.  They will need to be sleeved.  I'd also recommend you have the weldment normalized before machining.    Instead of a new block, would a girdle provide enough reinforcement for the main webs?  I'm suggesting a one-piece fabrication that incorporates all five main caps and adds a skirt to the block . . .The stroke would still be limited by the existing block, but the strength and stiffness would be greatly improved.  I see this as a 3 inch burn-out with some (significant) machining.Jim
Reply:Originally Posted by Moulder . . . but then again I hate to put money and effort into a block that may split in half.
Reply:This is definitely an interesting topic. I hope we can explore the details much further.This is the first part of twenty questions every engine block builder should aks themselves:Isn't cooling going to be a BIG problem?Don't cast blocks have extensive amounts of open surface for the purpose of heat transfer to coolant?Won't this need a LOT of welding?Aren't easily welded alloys the same ones that aren't so good at precisely retaining shape with thermal cycles?Wasn't the 7.3 based on the IH MV gas engine? They sure look like it.Can the 7.3 crankshaft take the torsional load if the engine is expanded to 800 cubic inches?Is there physicaly room in the envelope to reach 800 cubic inches?Are 800 cubes going to breath and rev?Seriously, if weight doesn't matter, why not just get a "real" engine?Doesn't this seem like a high ratio of dollar to horsepower?What if I just get an Allison? Or two?Attachment 45773Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:43 PM.
Reply:Feasible?  Maybe.Practical or make much sense for the $$$$ ?  Nope.Engine blocks have developed the way they have because folks have tried different things and found out what (mostly) works.  Like that whole water-cooling thing.  But hey, if you can figure out and make a forged billet engine block, post pics.  Cause I'm sure LOTS of folks would be curious and impressed.  Cast blocks are used because for the most part, the material is adequate for the task and is adequate for the manufacturing process.Need 'stronger'?  Use a 'stronger' design instead of changing the material.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Wow x 2 Unless you have a full machine/racing shop with complete cnc  the cost is prohibitive. Even when racing shops custom build an engine it cost a fortune.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseFeasible?  Maybe.Practical or make much sense for the $$$$ ?  Nope.
Reply:Oh, I know that racing is a matter of "How much $$$ do you want go".  But even then, there is still the matter of where do the $$$ make sense to spend.  Custom CNC billet block, custom one-off casting, or bigger stronger existing cast block.  etc, etc.Bang for the buck for a tractor pull engine I think would lean towards the bigger stronger existing cast block.  Different types of racing may shift the weight-power-cost trade-offs around.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:FYI, there ARE 900+ cube motors out there in the drag racing world using a cast block...
Reply:

Isn't cooling going to be a BIG problem?     I just have to make it 300', most serious pulling trucks and tractors blocks are filled with hard block.

Don't cast blocks have extensive amounts of open surface for the purpose of heat transfer to coolant?     If I built one it would have cooling jackets but most new race blocks have less cooling capacity with siamesed bores and thicker castings.

Won't this need a LOT of welding?  Yep, but the new cast block (with the nonimproved main webing) is $10,000 I think it would be cheaper to go this route, but have not done the final math.  If i do this I am diffently going to go big on the engine size.  If everything is going to be custom why not take advantage of it.

Aren't easily welded alloys the same ones that aren't so good at precisely retaining shape with thermal cycles?     I don't know, and would like to hear more about this.  But, a lot of blocks are made of aluminum and they seem to do fine.

Wasn't the 7.3 based on the IH MV gas engine? They sure look like it.     This would be modeled after the v-8 7.3 Powerstroke which was a truck only engine.  As far as I know it shares no parts with the 6.9 or 7.3 idi engines.  

Can the 7.3 crankshaft take the torsional load if the engine is expanded to 800 cubic inches?     I wouldn't weld up and offset grind a stock crank (although I have a John Deere 2-cylinder crank that had this done from 7" to 9 3/4", but it is a low rpm motor).  Ihra prostocks are around 816 cid and have smaller main and rod journals with little to no overlap.  So if built out of billit it would be a very stout crank.   

Is there physicaly room in the envelope to reach 800 cubic inches?   That is why I was talking about rasing the cam tunnel, widening the oil pan rails, and raising the deck height.  It is done all the time in new cast race blocks.  I may even be lucky and there is the room to do it without moving stuff around.  I'm trying to guage the feasibility of something like this before I take measeurements and draw up blueprints.  There are Chevy based blocks in the works now that will be capable of 900+ cubic inches.

Are 800 cubes going to breath and rev?     That will be helped out with head porting, larger valves, and multi-stage turbo charging.  I think I would only want to rev it to maybe 4000-4500 rpm.  After I decide on a bore and stroke I would have to do the math and figure out the feet per min. of the pistons and adjust if neccessary.

Seriously, if weight doesn't matter, why not just get a "real" engine?     This is going to be in a 1997 Ford F-250 so I am limited on room.

Doesn't this seem like a high ratio of dollar to horsepower?    You don't make any money in tractor and truck pulling, it is just a hobbie.  (I should have picked cheaper hobbies).  

What if I just get an Allison? Or two?    The class I would be pulling in is for diesel trucks, so a gas powered allison is a no go.  Other than adding to the deck height and a few hundred thousandths here and a few there I still want it to appear as stock as possible.  With all of the other stuff in the engine bay it is kind of hard to examine the block from above.Good Luck   Thank you!
Reply:General Motors made welded locomotive engines for many years.  I am not sure if they do it today.http://www.sdrm.org/roster/diesel/emd/567_int_1.jpgThey were build by the Electromotive Division of GM.  Very large engines.
Reply:Better to machine it from a solid block of steel, but i doubt it would have the warpage resistance of cast iron.
Reply:How are you planning on ballancing the 7.3 style.   the 7.3 powerstroke uses a counter shaft system to ballance it.you know theres guys pushing 1000hp through 7.3's you looking for more power than that?Steve
Reply:Originally Posted by StircrazyHow are you planning on ballancing the 7.3 style.   the 7.3 powerstroke uses a counter shaft system to ballance it.you know theres guys pushing 1000hp through 7.3's you looking for more power than that?Steve
Reply:Hey pictures are coming in! Good, here's some more.I'm  still trying to get my hands around the goals, but the welded block assembly is loosing ground fast. We need an advanced machinist's input.Machine one out of a chunk? That piece would start out at 5000 lbs wouldn't it? Of which maybe 4000 lbs would be removed with very complex machining. Any slip or design change could trash the whole thing. We all know that the first one of anything is extra difficult Here's some custom machined block pics to underscore the complexity.Attachment 45864It hurt to look at this one:Attachment 45863Even the dog shied away from it. This is why it was so painful. Attachment 45862What if the custom block does that?   The agony of defeat. In a nutshell, the power secret is to pack more air to burn more fuel.Overall, in my opinion, for  cost/weight/size/horsepower, there'd be no better starting point for a hot-rod diesel than a two-cycle Jimmy. Pick as many cylinders as you want, up to 24.  The secret to more power,  is to pack more air, to burn more fuel; both easy to do with the Jimmy. For short pulling, I think that with equal cubes, a stock Jimmy "fueled up"  would turn the best 7.3 based engine backwards, and live to do it again and again. Moulder, you ever look into the Jimmy? With the rules, could you run one? To fit in a small truck, I'm thinking 6V-53 coupled to  a torque converter and full  power-shift transmission. That would raise a few eyebrows. In marine trim, the mill is already bumping 300 horsepower and 300KW, that's real horsepower too. They're cheap, and you don't need it to last as long as boat engine, with your background you could really push limits.Wouldn't that be beautiful to whip their high-dollar Donkeys with a greasy old $1500 bus engine? What do the rules say about engine origin?If you want cubes and  need to retain the V-8 IH blood lines, how about a 9.0 liter?Could you pass off Ford V8 1160 (disguised 3208 Cat) as legal? There's up to  450 hp 'out the box. Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:43 PM.Originally Posted by denrepHey pictures are coming in! Good, here's some more.I'm  still trying to get my hands around the goals, but the welded block assembly is loosing ground fast. We need an advanced machinist's input.Machine one out of a chunk? That piece would start out at 5000 lbs wouldn't it? Of which maybe 4000 lbs would be removed with very complex machining. Any slip or design change could trash the whole thing. We all know that the first one of anything is extra difficult Here's some custom machined block pics to underscore the complexity.Attachment 45864It hurt to look at this one:Attachment 45863Even the dog shied away from it. This is why it was so painful. Attachment 45862What if the custom block does that?   The agony of defeat. In a nutshell, the power secret is to pack more air to burn more fuel.Overall, in my opinion, for  cost/weight/size/horsepower, there'd be no better starting point for a hot-rod diesel than a two-cycle Jimmy. Pick as many cylinders as you want, up to 24.  The secret to more power,  is to pack more air, to burn more fuel; both easy to do with the Jimmy. For short pulling, I think that with equal cubes, a stock Jimmy "fueled up"  would turn the best 7.3 based engine backwards, and live to do it again and again. Moulder, you ever look into the Jimmy? With the rules, could you run one? To fit in a small truck, I'm thinking 6V-53 coupled to  a torque converter and full  power-shift transmission. That would raise a few eyebrows. In marine trim, the mill is already bumping 300 horsepower and 300KW, that's real horsepower too. They're cheap, and you don't need it to last as long as boat engine, with your background you could really push limits.Wouldn't that be beautiful to whip their high-dollar Donkeys with a greasy old $1500 bus engine? What do the rules say about engine origin?If you want cubes and  need to retain the V-8 IH blood lines, how about a 9.0 liter?Could you pass off Ford V8 1160 (disguised 3208 Cat) as legal? There's up to  450 hp 'out the box. Good Luck
Reply:I don't know the Chrysler engine histories. They were mixed in at a sale. They don't look easy or cheap do they?Yes the 9.0 was a dog, but no matter which engine you push to the limit, you're not going to get longevity. If  it were "legal" the cubes of some odd-ball like the 9.0 might give you an edge.To be legal, if it's just a matter of the crank fitting the block, maybe rather than build a block from scratch, the 7.3 crank could be "fit" to some big-cube block. As for a DT-360 in a ton truck...  Hmmm With an incomplete chassis there might be a soft spot in the rules for that. Some "ton" chassis trucks are on the heavy sideI'd scour the books for the pedigree to an RV chassis. Parcel chassis, Fire/rescue truck, or maybe a bus chassis that was possibly available with the engine, and still rated as a ton chassis. That trick probably wouldn't  win you any popularity contest, but I don't think that even Dale Carnegie  could help you once they see the "MoulderStroke" 900 CID V-8.   You need to see what's not in the rules, to figure out your next move.Good Luck
Reply:I might have to look into what chassies the dt-360 came in and if "pick-up" is in the discription or not.  Here is a link to my myspace pictures, it has the pictures of the crankshaft and rods I was talking about.  Go to the My Photos album.  A picture of the tractor is in the second row, and the engine parts are in the third and fourth row.  If you have noticed by now you will after clicking on the link I am a bit of a motor head http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...endID=58845368
Reply:That's a Nitro motor for sure with the double mags...As a machinist I will comment that it would cost you a FORTUNE to even attempt a block out of steel plate that would hold that much HP...Block weldment..Sleeves that will not move...Proper bores in the CORRECT place...Like Rojo pointed out ..Off .005 here and there and suddenly nothing will work at all.Where are you going to find a machine shop that will even attempt this??Looks good on paper but in the long run it would be MUCH cheaper to get a used 8000 HP nitro  block and crank and then start working with something that WORKS from the start..BUT...In the pulling game isn't it TORQUE that makes the world spin?Crank timing and camshafts and fuel in the right place...That's where the gain is..Homemade steel blocks are at best ..."Impracticle"..What if it DID work...For about as long as the break in period went and then BOOM!!!?Starting all over again?Spare me....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Zapster I am sure you are right.  Like I said before I just wanted to guage the feasibility of something like this before it even made it to the project list.  I do have a question for you though.  Say that money was not object for this project (which I wish were true) and everything was welded professionaly and machined within spec.  What would be your major concern in running a block like this.  I have people telling me it won't work but not why.  Would it be inferior choice in material, the probability that the welds are not going to hold, or something else? That is kind of what I was hoping for when I asked this question.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoulderZapster I am sure you are right.  Like I said before I just wanted to guage the feasibility of something like this before it even made it to the project list.  I do have a question for you though.  Say that money was not object for this project (which I wish were true) and everything was welded professionaly and machined within spec.  What would be your major concern in running a block like this.  I have people telling me it won't work but not why.  Would it be inferior choice in material, the probability that the welds are not going to hold, or something else? That is kind of what I was hoping for when I asked this question.
Reply:Anything can be done if you REALLY want it..A welded block would not be any stronger than a cast 7.3 block that is filled with HardBlok..A machined block from solid steel would not be any better either..And MUCH heavier..What about a big bore kit and have Crower or Callies make you a steel crank for it?HP is one thing but TORQUE is what you are after..Banks makes some rather nasty turbo set-up's...I'M sure they would spin a custom one up for ya..Keep the forum up to date with your decision.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Rojodiablo, what are you refering to as the elevator section?  I've never heard anyone use this term before.Zapster, I was always taught that cast/cast iron is the partical board of metal.  Watch this video on how easily the cylinder flexes on this 5.9 Cummins block.  The Cummins has a pretty stong block so who knows what Powerstroke and Duramax block is doing at high horsepower and torque levels.  [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cLjdr2GSwU[/ame]How would a billet steel block not be any stronger than a cast iron block?  Yes, hardblok helps but does that put it in the same playing feild as billet block?  I don't see why  they would have went to the trouble of making a billet block if a filled cast iron block is just as good for this pulling truck?[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmEWA30EJ34[/ame]Banks?   Their products are nice but you don't get much performance for the money spent, but they do have some very nice intercoolers that seem to be on par with everyone else price wise.This is what I am trying to keep from doing.  Yep this is a 7.3 Powerstroke, or at least the drivers side cylinder bank of one. Attached Images
Reply:.Billett block is for the weight savings to use elsewhere..That must have made some sound...I have a 7.3 in my dumptruck and would not like to see that happen..Do you know why that did?Was it used for pulling?...zap!Last edited by zapster; 02-11-2010 at 08:36 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by Moulder.  I wish a Dt-360 was used in a 1 ton because they are stouter than the 5.9 cummins.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster.Billett block is for the weight savings to use elsewhere..That must have made some sound...I have a 7.3 in my dumptruck and would not like to see that happen..Do you know why that did?Was it used for pulling?...zap!
Reply:360's in a Van were not made..A 360 is in the FE series of Ford motors...There was not a van made from the factory with a FE in it...A 300 6 has 2 more mains than a V8...What about a 460?They came in vans......zap!Last edited by zapster; 02-11-2010 at 11:40 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:that  cylinder distortion video looked suspicious to me, it looked like that dude barely got that bore gauge to hang in there and then when he "pulled" or I would say gave  a quick nudge on the block it fell out.  I am just curious, that block was first bored and then the torque plate being installed gave it that much distortion after a fresh bore job? that's pretty amazing or was that a cylinder that was "as is" after disassembly of a running motor, the bore looked kind of shiny. I was thinking about this whole fabbed up block today while I was tacking two pieces of 10 gauge together one was in a vise and I was holding the other in my hand as I tacked it I could feel the metal pull so this thread popped up in my head at that moment and I did a heavy tack moving the gun back and forth in the same spot and the metal was moving drastically in my hand as I moved the puddle, even though the machining would come after the welding I think a  block getting fabbed would have to have this distortion accounted in the engineering or wps in the welding of this block with the welds being placed in certain spots in a certain sequence to make everything equal out, it seems like this would only be possible to accomplish with test in building numerous blocks... not cheap.........I could be completely wrong about this, after all I'm just a welder"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal"   -Henry Ford
Reply:361 CI came in Cab Over Fords that were used in oil delivery trucks...Steel cranks and everything..But now you are into Dinosaur stuff...Not for what you need......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:What do the rules say?  Must be a production engine in the vehicle model used to pull?Or can you run what ya brung?If you can "run what ya brung" and money isn't a real big problem only one answer remains..........GAS TURBINE.  Won't blow, will produce as much power as you want, easy to work on, but expensive.Want 3K HP, GAS TURBINE.  Want 3K Torque, GAS TURBINE.  Want light weight, GAS TURBINE.Now equate that to a diesel engine, 3K HP = 20 Tons (Imagine that locomotive engine under the hood of the F-150 pulling truck).If it must be a "production" diesel engine, Simplot in Idaho was putting Cat V-8 diesels in F-250 pickups before Ford even put diesels in pick-ups.  It was a very common swap.  Just find a used Cat/Cummins/Detroit, swap it in.  Only limit is the dollars spent.Heck, there's a guy in Sweden that turns a 6.2 Liter diesel at 6000 rpm, making around 300hp........NO NITROS!  But he does use a turbo on it.  And he pulls with it.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:The 360 I am refering to is an International DT-360.  It is an inline six cylinder diesel of 360 cubic inches.  They came with either with a Bosch A pump or MW pump (maybe a rotary pump too, but not sure on that).  It is just like the Dt-466 but just smaller.  I'm not really keen on putting a Cummins in the truck eventhough I have two of them down at the shop (one is already allocated to another project).  Although It would be kind of cool to build a billet aluminum raised runner head that had a large increase in flow.  But, with a aluminum head that long and different expansion rates than the block I don't know if the gasket would hold or not.  I just can't leave well enough alone.    I don't know it is a lot to think about.
Reply:Check the rules to see what is allowed and what is not.  Check the fine print and the grey areas.Then you can have a better idea on which way to go in being 'different'.  ex:  If the rules say a 'stock' engine must be used but don't restrict it to 'stock engine in -that- vehicle', then pretty much the sky is the limit.  If rules say stock-engine-in-that-vehicle, then you may have to dig into various production specs and variations for that 'vehicle' and maybe look into some of the possible RV or chassis/cab variants.But without knowing the rules, you are just guessing.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by eyeball engineerthat  cylinder distortion video looked suspicious to me, it looked like that dude barely got that bore gauge to hang in there and then when he "pulled" or I would say gave  a quick nudge on the block it fell out.  I am just curious, that block was first bored and then the torque plate being installed gave it that much distortion after a fresh bore job? that's pretty amazing or was that a cylinder that was "as is" after disassembly of a running motor, the bore looked kind of shiny.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster360's in a Van were not made..A 360 is in the FE series of Ford motors...There was not a van made from the factory with a FE in it...A 300 6 has 2 more mains than a V8...What about a 460?They came in vans......zap!
Reply:I have  asked myself this question too.   Remembering the oven silver soldered crossley.I think you would have to build it oversize, oven anneal it , bore it for some kind of hardened pre-made slieves.  Or maybe you could make your own slieves out of your favorite alloy steel, shrink them with liquid nitrogen and drop them in the macined bores,then do a final line-bore and the rest. weld the liners in at top and bottom.  Top weldswould be cut when decking.  Bottom welds cold be left alone or dressed and polishedto prevent stress risers (?)   I think with a program like solidworks and a cnc plasma cutter it would be VERYpractical for One-Off engines. ( you could go from computer screen to finished parts ready to weld ) With annealing and the ability to add webs anywhereyou wish it could be stronger and stiffer than a cast iron block.  One thing I think would beusefull is to design it with solidworks and then have some computer program simulateapplying a BIG torque and see where on the block needs more webs or more thicknessso the whole block has a uniform rigidity and not a singular weaker area to fail.Solidworks may be able to do this calculation too ( I dont know ! )Tim B.
Reply:I don't know if you blokes are still following this thread,but it is possible to fab a block from steel and it has been done here in Perth Western Australia.This block was hand crafted in the early 70's by a bloke named Bob StLawrence. http://www.wadragracing.com/joomla2/...12968/catid,3/ Check this link for more.
Reply:Most stationary and marine engines are made from fabricated steel blocks.  It's expensive to do but makes the engines highly repairable in the event of a failure.
Reply:Originally Posted by steve45There was an automobile that had an engine made of steel plate in the early part of the 20th century.  Sorry, I can't remember the name.  I was thinking it was a Crossley, but a search didn't say anything about the type of engine.Anyway, that would be a far cry from the size of engine you're talking about.
Reply:Just saw this, did a quick search and didn't find anything but the original article and this weldingweb thread.  So who knows how well it worked.http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...tmetal-engine/
Reply:A guy in Australia by the name of Bob St Lawrence made a copy of a 392 hemi block out of steel plate. It worked as well, it was a running engine. Only downside was it was heavy, however it was tough as nails did not the have the weaknesses of the aluminium blocks.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX