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Had a good client call me today and ask me about a repair. It's a 2007 ford f 450 dump body has a decent size crack in the frame. I was thinking close the gap grind it and weld it with 7018 and put a patch plate over. Any insight Attached ImagesVantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:I think it broke because of shock load where the shock absorber mount took a beating. If you could repair it to new condition, it wouldn't be good enough. A repair needs to fix the crack, and add reinforcement to prevent the design shortcoming from repeating the failure. Most of the strength should be on the horizontal bottom web of the frame. It looks to me like the rear spring hanger wants to interfere with the needed reinforcement. In that lies one challenge. The fact that not only the crack is weakened, but the steel close to it isn't what you want leads me to look for a donor truck I could cut an undamaged section from. Move the weld joints to a place where reinforcements can be made. Then add fish plates (6) top, bottom, and side, at each end of the new section. Salvage yards somewhere must have casualty trucks. There is a frame builder in VT will build you a section of frame to fix it. Welding the crack is attractive, it won't hold.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:My one brother-n-law has been a body & fender man for over 50-years. I remember him saying some frame repairs are required to use Mig. What wire I have no idea.Remember no 90-degree corners on your fish plates. Diamond, oval, or circle shapes only!Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Gees, clean it up and weld it! plate or don't plate it ,being an 07 it lasted this long, so what if it cracks a few years from now?, do it again. I wouldn't go to the trouble of grafting a new piece on ($$$$$) we do these all the time.
Reply:What does the other frame look like? A pic from further back would be nice so we can see the bed/frame combo. It looks like an older break but not like it's been moving much. That leads me to believe there was a one time event that broke it. Ask if anyone ever dropped the bed loaded or hit a large bump or ditch with a heavy load. But from what I see I would do as you say, pull it together and weld it with 7018. Then I would use a strap a little wider than the flange and 1/4" thick or so and weld it to the bottom of the frame. In this case I would leave the ends flat and unwelded just because I don't like to weld across a flange at all in that situation. But that might change if I saw the whole thing. You can plate the side too but I don't see that as real necessary.JonLast edited by welderj; 10-23-2015 at 07:18 PM.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Haven't seen it in person I told him there is no warranty on this they tend to run there equipment hard. He said it has been like this a while ....Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:I've seen that near exact failure in the past and repaired one myself. Not hard to "Vee" it out and weld it up after removing the shock mount, but I also strapped the lower flange with stitch welded 3/16" ksi steel from PG Adams and it's still running the roads. I used 70S-6 wire to weld it up and didn't have any problems.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Here is pics of the frame on my 00' F450. Not only does the frame narrow vertically at that point the bottom web is only half as wide to clear the shock. Frame is .325" thickTiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Ford trucks with power end gates are fairly common to break there. Especially if the loads are carried near the end gate when it's folded up/closed. I never liked a "necked down" frame like that. IH used it a lot on single axle semi tractors and they liked to break also but mostly from twist and torsional stress through that area. Fishplating and strapping the lower flange usually will suffice for a repair after dressing and welding up the cracked frame.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Relocate the shock mount & fuel lines and fully box the frame there?Hobart 210 MVPHTP Invertig 221 + coolerEverlast SuperUltra 205
Reply:Originally Posted by ZizzleRelocate the shock mount & fuel lines and fully box the frame there?
Reply:a bunch of good ideas. but nobody mentioned drilling a hole at cracks leading tip before heating or welding anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by 123welda bunch of good ideas. but nobody mentioned drilling a hole at cracks leading tip before heating or welding anything.
Reply:I would think hard about boxing this frame. If you box it you limit flex. This frame is designed to flex so you will have a situation where the frame is trying to tear itself apart all the time. It would be similar to adding a torque tube to the mix.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCDo you really think it's going to make any difference? I've never seen any holes drilled at the end of any factory welds on frames before.
Reply:Originally Posted by DrooopyYou drill a hole at the end of a crack to prevent stress from starting the crack right back up. Standard practice in just about any industry.
Reply:Originally Posted by DrooopyWhat the heck does the factory have to do with this? They are not welding cracks at the factory. You drill a hole at the end of a crack to prevent stress from starting the crack right back up. Standard practice in just about any industry.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCOver thirty years doing this, never did,never had too..why start now?
Reply:Cleaned it out welded it up and put a plate on the bottom rail. Looking at the rest of the truck I think it is on its way to the grave yard before it will break again.Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobJust about 20 years ago I repaired an IH V200 tandem with a spring tag pusher axle truck with a 20' grain bed broken in both rails very near the same place. Spring tags are hard on axle mounting points and this is where this one was broken. One side I drilled, the other I didn't. The frame was broken about 3/4 of the way from the bottom to the top of the rails; actually sagging in the broken area with the cracks opened up. After jacking and blocking I grooved it out on one side and welded it up with 8018, (IIRC) and did the other side identical except forgot to drill the hole. The truck is still around with a different owner, and now a Cummins diesel and it hasn't broken again.Not saying or suggesting which way was better or more right, just the job held up and keeps going. I just seen the truck on Wednesday in a field with a bed full of soybeans but I didn't stop to visit as I don't know the owner.
Reply:Originally Posted by 12V71V200... cool old trucks. I like drilling a hole at the end of a frame crack just to make sure I have total fusion at the end of the crack. But usually the stress that starts a crack, starts at the other end of the crack, I.E. edge of the rail.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drooopy You drill a hole at the end of a crack to prevent stress from starting the crack right back up. Standard practice in just about any industry.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobIt really was a good old truck. Wouldn't have wanted to feed it though. That 549-V8 was lucky to break through 4.5 mpg empty and three when loaded. That's why it was changed to a NH-220 Cummins which I believe it still has.
Reply:one of the reasons for drilling a hole, is it stops the crack from growing or running when it gets heat, whether its intended preheat from your torch, or heat from the approaching puddle
Reply:Thats the way I was taught to deal with any crack...Drill a hole at both ends...grind the crack and weld....that was 55 yrs ago..Originally Posted by FlitemedicThats the way I was taught to deal with any crack...Drill a hole at both ends...grind the crack and weld....that was 55 yrs ago..
Reply:Well..the time saved is minute...and I have welded cracks w/o drilling them out, My stuff that was non-consequential...But I almost always drill out the end of the crack... grind the crack and weld it. whether you do or you don't, I feel is up to the individual...I'M sure success can be had either way
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCSo you never welded a crack in 55 years without drilling? You should try it, think of all the time you wasted.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPYou ever play with one of these kits?
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCif you showed up a truck repair center around here to repair a frame with one of those you would be escorted off the site,as most would be sure you would not be capable of doing the job.
Reply:Grind it and welded it 7018.It,s not brain surgery guys.And don,t even think I have not done frame cracks just welded a 87 Mack R model 10 whlr dump yesterday.Split at lower bend on C P-SIDE just between front tandem and hydro tank about 24".Will be carrying 12-14 ton of hot mix in am and I ain,t sweating it...
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPTruck repair is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over my head! I’ll stick to building bridges, and container ship docks.
Reply:Originally Posted by admsweldingGrind it and welded it 7018.It,s not brain surgery guys.And don,t even think I have not done frame cracks just welded a 87 Mack R model 10 whlr dump yesterday.Split at lower bend on C P-SIDE just between front tandem and hydro tank about 24".Will be carrying 12-14 ton of hot mix in am and I ain,t sweating it...
Reply:Originally Posted by BrianCHaha, and I wouldn't touch a bridge !
Reply:When I took aircraft maintenance stop drilling was explained like this. The end of the crack is very narrow and comes to a sharp point. The stress at that point is hundreds of times more concentrated as it levers at the point. When you stop drill the stress concentration on a round hole is only three times. Still a lot but enough to stop the crack from continuing. On aircraft stress raisers are to be avoided at all costs.
Reply:Do you then weld up the drilled hole or leave it empty?Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:you weld over it, and a lil beyond. you want to make sure your getting the tip of the crack. my thoughts are, theres probabaly internal crack/sress a lil farther than meets the eye. so what i do is center punch the end from what i can see. then i take a flap wheel and make the area baby *** smooth. sometimes you can see more, sometimes less. if i'm uncertain where cracks end is, or even if its going straight or curved, i take a torch and hit it w/ a lil heat on one side of the crack only near the suspected end. if you do your heat hot and fast and about right, you'll see that blueish discloration move across the surface of the steel. if you do it right, the discoloration don't really jump across the crack much. now that the crack end is more visable, i take a bit smaller than the my finished desire, and lead the crack off (drill in front of crack in direction that i think it will go. then i throw a lil heat on both sides behind the end of scrack and expansion makes it run to hole. it dont always hit the hole centered. now i pretty certain i got the end. i drill it to my desrired finished size trying to make thew hole as centered as possible on the crack. then groove, preheat and weld. i've played around w/ the 3 step dye cep got, i keep it on hand, but if the crack is alonside a weld itself, i dont find it much help.Last edited by 123weld; 10-26-2015 at 12:18 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by John TAlso standard practice for any drummer that ever cracked a cymbal* * Almost always it eventually re-cracks around the drillhole... but we are talking brass/alloy and Black Sabbath....
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI have done that to mine in the past.Only thing is that the broken edges still "Rub" together and sound terrible.(I actually canned a whole drum track because I could not stand the sound of it)I checked them after every gig and if there was a crack anywhere I would just take it to the band saw and make the whole cymbal a little bit smaller.Works every time and it doesn't change the sound all that much...Sometimes it's even better!...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by 123welda bunch of good ideas. but nobody mentioned drilling a hole at cracks leading tip before heating or welding anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by John TCool idea. Instant splash cymbal.... LoLHave you ever tried tig welding or brazing one?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPOh bridges are easy. The hard part is getting these in the ground without breaking them.
Reply:Raf actually its boring as he!!, as long as everything stays together. But pile driving equipment is destine for failure. Everything takes such a beating. Cant tell you how many days I drove pile all day, then stay until mid night welding things back together. Then right back at it in the morning.Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Just like concrete breakers on skid steers, excavators etc. Very common cause of cracked booms and such. They just beat up whatever they are connected to.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawJust like concrete breakers on skid steers, excavators etc. Very common cause of cracked booms and such. They just beat up whatever they are connected to.
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobYup. I'm in the market for a good used portable align bore machine to fix that kind of stuff should you run across one in good condition.Thanks,
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawWell, if IrishFixit's family end up using WW to liquidate his business, he had a really nice line boring setup.Wondered if the 10"stoke on the Milwaukee mag drill I'm selling would work to line bore as it also has a fine adjustment for positioning.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanD78Sometimes finding the end of a crack is a guess.
Reply:Using dye penetrant on a weld: |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:24:56