Lincoln 180c vs Miller 180 autoset, Which to buy?

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I have been looking for a new welder to replace my POS Harbor Freight Mig.  I am looking for a little guidance from those in the know.Both units are very close in specification.  The Miller is completely made in USA with USA parts, The Lincoln is made and built in Mexico.  No main assemblies are made in China.The Welding store is pushing the Lincoln, (I think there is a higher profit margin on the Lincoln)So, is it Blue or Red and Why?   Any and all comments are welcome but please explain why you think so!!Thanks Again
Reply:Neither - check out the ThermalArc 181i - use the search function on this site and you will see why.MIG/Tig/Stick DC inverter welder at 150 amps real output for $800.It's three welders in one from a quality manufacterer, lighter than the Lincoln/Miller and more amps of output.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Me I would push my budget $75-100 and get the miller 211, it will run on 110 or 220 ( there have been  couple of times that the 110 would have been nice to have) I would use 220 in the shop.I am not sure whether Miller still has the mail in rebates, I got $125 on my 212.My Lincoln distributor says that the 140 and 180 machines they stock are not the same machines as the home depot/sears lines, codes are different with different parts.....they also repair and do warranty work for Lincoln so I assume they know what they are talking about.The Miller 211 and 212 have the auto feature ( not always accurate ) which is convenient and fast if your fabing and have different thicknesses of metal. I am not going to bang on Lincoln or Miller both are made in the USA ( rare thing these days ) I own a Miller and a Lincoln although two completly different machines. Its a machine by machine model by model comparision between the two manufacturers machines. I like the miller multiprocess machines better than the Lincoln inverter, I have used a Lincoln 140 and just hated it no pentetration, guy had it set up on flux core cause he was too cheap to buy a bottle, although it was better than a car alternator and a coat hanger not much.That said I welded on a 500-600 amp Lincoln ( big old power supply) with a feeder and a good spool gun and it was sweet.I suppose application is important on any machine but I weld thicker stuff (1/2-3/4 ) pretty regularly. I switch to stick for that, my point is if you only have on machine having the heavier machine is the route I would go.Hope this helps
Reply:fredschrom,Lots of good points,The 211 is running about $375.00 more than the 180 auto-set and that is $100.00 more than the Lincoln 180c.  Miller's rebates ended the first week of November (dumb with the holidays coming up) I would love the 212 but that is beyond my cash limits.I also checked out the TermalArc units but was a little dissapointed to find out they are 100% Chinese made (according to a dealer that sells them) and after going thru 2 POS Harbor Freight Migs I am afraid to send any more of my money overseas. I was surprised to find out that all the Lincoln welders that are sized 180 and smaller are made in Mexico, of course still much better than china!!Some say the arc is more stable on the Lincoln, some say the Miller's are is smoother and penetrates better.  The welding supply companies seem to push the Lincoln's over the Millers but I suspect that is partly because of a higher profit margin.Touch choice!
Reply:what would a lightly used, well taken care of 180c with the normal lincoln cart be worth? i'm thinking of selling mine and going to the thermal arc 181i.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:The MM 180 and PM 180C are proven units; where as the 181i is in it infancy. At this point, until the unit has been around for a year or two, I wouldn't be willing to let the 181i be my only unit. The MM 180 produces a crisp arc with a good amount of drive to it.The PM 180C arc has some crispness to it, but it is definitely softer then the MM 180.Arc quality wise, I'd consider both unit to be good. It has been a while since I ran the MM 180. I own a 180C and the arc has a fairly wide sweet spot,  making it what I consider easy to dial in. If I remember correctly the Miller was good in this area too. Better weld puddle wet out goes to the 180C.The 180C is capable of producing a softer low end arc (24 -22 ga sheetmetal) with .023 wire and C25 shielding gas then the MM 180.The MM 180 outputs more top end power power then the 180C. The difference is noticable. Due to this, the MM 180 is the better 1/4" unit. In the areas of arc quality and weld puddle wet out the MM 180 isn't as good as Hobart's Handler 190 is on 1/4". The MM 180 and Handler 190 roughly output the same level of top end power.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:I have a 180c,  since March 2011 It's held up well so far.  It probably has 500 hours on it so far.  It's even been punted by a 1000# bull & still works great.The gun sucks, & if I would have realized it was made in Mexico, & would have gone with the miller to tell the truth.But it does work well, for 3/16" & under I must admit.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Where are you pricing your welders? I see on line the Lincoln for line for $794 and the Miller for $849 and the 211 for $1035.I don't buy on line as my local Miller store is cheaper and I get service. I am pretty sure I saw the 211 for under a grand when I was in the store last week, and that means that MM180 will be cheaper than that on line price.I will be going by Monday or Tuesday to pick up some wire and I will check their price on the MM180.
Reply:I have a Miller 211 and I am very happy with it. I run 6 spools of wire through it in less than a year.  No troubles.  Sure blows my old Lincoln SP100 away.  I purchased the optional spool gun and it works well for a light duty spool gun and I think a little cheaper than the lincoln gun. The dual voltage is a nice option.MikeMiller Thunderbolt AC/DCMillermatic 211 and spoolmatePower Plasma 50Syncrowave 180 SDMike
Reply:Miller 211. I have it and it is a very good welder. It even runs dualshield very good.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromWhere are you pricing your welders? I see on line the Lincoln for line for $794 and the Miller for $849 and the 211 for $1035.
Reply:Originally Posted by StarmasterMatheson Tri Gas is where I am getting the prices but I would consider an online vendor............................................  .....
Reply:I purchased my MM211 from Matheson Tri-Gas local store and they honored the web price of $999.00. Actually, I was hanging around helping a customer and they lowered the price to 979.00. The store manager also threw in a couple of pairs of long leather gloves. The Miller 211 is the way to go in my view.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6KJFArdCiU[/ame]Good luck on your decision,Yakdung
Reply:i got my 350p from a local store with taxes it came out to30 bucks more then on the net my guy said hey its better to match a price and make some money vs sticking to your price and make nothing  he ordered it and miller had it here in a couple days350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromWhere are you pricing your welders? I see on line the Lincoln for line for $794 and the Miller for $849 and the 211 for $1035.I don't buy on line as my local Miller store is cheaper and I get service. I am pretty sure I saw the 211 for under a grand when I was in the store last week, and that means that MM180 will be cheaper than that on line price.I will be going by Monday or Tuesday to pick up some wire and I will check their price on the MM180.
Reply:Originally Posted by DanThe MM 180 and PM 180C are proven units; where as the 181i is in it infancy. At this point, until the unit has been around for a year or two, I wouldn't be willing to let the 181i be my only unit. The MM 180 produces a crisp arc with a good amount of drive to it.The PM 180C arc has some crispness to it, but it is definitely softer then the MM 180.Arc quality wise, I'd consider both unit to be good. It has been a while since I ran the MM 180. I own a 180C and the arc has a fairly wide sweet spot,  making it what I consider easy to dial in. If I remember correctly the Miller was good in this area too. Better weld puddle wet out goes to the 180C.The 180C is capable of producing a softer low end arc (24 -22 ga sheetmetal) with .023 wire and C25 shielding gas then the MM 180.The MM 180 outputs more top end power power then the 180C. The difference is noticable. Due to this, the MM 180 is the better 1/4" unit. In the areas of arc quality and weld puddle wet out the MM 180 isn't as good as Hobart's Handler 190 is on 1/4". The MM 180 and Handler 190 roughly output the same level of top end power.
Reply:The overall winner seems to be the 211, though it was not being originally considered because of the price I was given for it.  I think if the comparison was between the Lincoln 180 and Miller 211 probably 95% would opt for the Miller.  With that being said and after doing some digging (thanks to the comments) I found a site millerweldersales.com that sells the 211 for 995.00 with free shipping.  As suggested I am going to go back to Matheson Tri Gas armed with this info and ask them to match the price. I still will be paying $70.00 more because of the taxes but if they are willing to match the internet price I will be willing to pay the extra $70. to support my local business. Lets see what happens!
Reply:Originally Posted by StarmasterThe overall winner seems to be the 211, though it was not being originally considered because of the price I was given for it.  I think if the comparison was between the Lincoln 180 and Miller 211 probably 95% would opt for the Miller.  With that being said and after doing some digging (thanks to the comments) I found a site millerweldersales.com that sells the 211 for 995.00 with free shipping.  As suggested I am going to go back to Matheson Tri Gas armed with this info and ask them to match the price. I still will be paying $70.00 more because of the taxes but if they are willing to match the internet price I will be willing to pay the extra $70. to support my local business. Lets see what happens!
Reply:I have a miller 180 with auto set, I love it. I never use the auto set but love the machine. I had a miller 135 (110 volt) machine and out grew it.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:211 was $999.00 and the 180 was $849.00 today when I checked.
Reply:Yes the 211 is the best way to go. However when you are buying it get at least a 200 amp gun to go with it instead of the 100 amp gun,  buy a new ground clamp instead of the cheap one it comes with, if you want to do fluxcore you have to purchase a drive wheel for that.  I did all that to make the 211 into the welder i needed, that brought the price up to 1280 but now it welds like it should and i have run 6 10lb spools thru it since july and i have owned it since aug of 2009.  Also I purchased a 181i within the last month and it has all the items i upgraded as standard equipment,  its not where the welder is built but the designer who spec out the compontents to use and how they are assembled to make a quality machine and i believe that lincolin,miller,esab,thermal arc have the designer that are building quality products, as one poster said why does it make a different which country they are made in.  The major players are not going to put out junk and ruin there namemm211 autoset 2009maxstar 152  1999  ta 181i 2011thunderbolt ac/dc 1988 gave to friendmm130 1995 soldmm challenger 1997 sold to friendmm 250d 1996 soldhtp 200 2000 sold
Reply:Milkerman, had a chance yet to compare the Mig performance of your ThermalArc 181i to your Miller 211?Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Because of the overwellming suggestion to go with the Miller 211 I picked one up today. Thanks to Yakdung's suggestion I pointed out to the local Matheson dealer I could buy one cheaper directly from the Miller site.  He lowered the price was $965.00 +tax.  I am happy with the deal, and best of all I managed to sell the old Harbor Freight unit on Craigslist today as well!All in all it was a very good day.  Tomorrow, looking forward to the test drive!Thanks to all for your support and suggestions, it really helped to make the right choice!Dan
Reply:Rick Vhad a reply to your question all typed out but the forum timed out and would not let me post the reply and it went away so will try thursday moring
Reply:Originally Posted by MilkermanRick Vhad a reply to your question all typed out but the forum timed out and would not let me post the reply and it went away so will try thursday moringOriginally Posted by StarmasterBecause of the overwellming suggestion to go with the Miller 211 I picked one up today. Thanks to Yakdung's suggestion I pointed out to the local Matheson dealer I could buy one cheaper directly from the Miller site.  He lowered the price was $965.00 +tax.  I am happy with the deal, and best of all I managed to sell the old Harbor Freight unit on Craigslist today as well!All in all it was a very good day.  Tomorrow, looking forward to the test drive!Thanks to all for your support and suggestions, it really helped to make the right choice!Dan
Reply:Run some beads and tell us what you think, big difference from your old HF unit for sure but everyone I know who has a 211 likes it, and a couple of them are welders by trade.
Reply:Blue for in the shop red for out in the feildLincoln Pro Core 125Lincolin sp 100Miller Big 40Lincoln Idealarc SP250miller matic 212http://www.facebook.com/hdwelding?sk=wallwww.hdweldingbeds.com
Reply:Originally Posted by StarmasterAs suggested I am going to go back to Matheson Tri Gas armed with this info and ask them to match the price. I still will be paying $70.00 more because of the taxes but if they are willing to match the internet price I will be willing to pay the extra $70. to support my local business. Lets see what happens!
Reply:Millermatic 180 Autoset. I'm very happy with mine but I wish I have gotten the 211 even if I didn't need the 110V.Last edited by JayL; 11-24-2011 at 01:24 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by JayLMillermatic 180 Autoset. I'm very happy with mine but I wish I have gotten the 211 even if I didn't need the 110V.
Reply:Originally Posted by fredschromRun some beads and tell us what you think, big difference from your old HF unit for sure but everyone I know who has a 211 likes it, and a couple of them are welders by trade.
Reply:Originally Posted by StarmasterI took 2 pieces of 1/4 inch soft steel and tried a butt weld. All I can saw is WOW, I always thought those bugger welds were my lack of ability with the HF unit.  It appears I was wrong, the 211 left an absolutely beautiful  weld that was smooth and clean.I cut the metal in a chop saw to check the penetration, it too was amazing and consistant. Hell, I might even build a cart now that I can actually weld something and not have to grind off the buggers for hours.Bottom line, in the welding world you get what you pay for.  You guys were right on all counts!Now I feel sorry for the person I sold the HF unit to.  Well, least he got it real cheap!Happy Thanksgiving to all! Dan
Reply:OK, now that I have burned up a spool of wire welding everything in site I want to add aluminum welding to the equation.Looking for opinions on the Miller Spoolmate 100.   My local dealer does not have one to gander at so before I spend the money to order one I thought I would ask the experts.   Now for the questions: As I understand it this is the only gun that will work on the 211. Is this true?  and has anyone used one that would recommend it? Issues good or bad?  Hope you all had a great turkey day!Dan
Reply:It works just fineEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VMilkerman, had a chance yet to compare the Mig performance of your ThermalArc 181i to your Miller 211?
Reply:Rick vMy comparisons between the mm211 and 181i.  Inverters are here to stay and things will only get better.  My 211 with a 15 ft benard center fire gun welds as expected when welding stainless steel with gas the welds have always been slugges it seems to start good and then spits and sputters, always had the same problem with the 130,and challenger the htp 200 did just a little better.  Just did a project where i had to weld 34 jetter holders in a milking parlor 14 ga to 11 ga stainless steel curb. No spits and sputters perfect welds you can tell the inverter does something to the welding puddle it just keep feeding  with a crisp frying bacon sound. The lighter weight and small profile is what i have been looking for.  The welder is always in my service truck takes up not much room and with a bottle of argon I can repair everthing that  2 welders use to do.   The need for 120v which the 211 has, i have only used it maybe 5 times in the 2 years that i have owned it.  One thing that i have found out is i started to set the wire speed  and voltage on the 211 not the autoset which i have been using for the past 2 years as i always had burn through on 16 ga steel,  the chart on the 181i is dead on the miller chart? is a good starting guideFor me i will be looking at 252i next spring and some of the dairymen i work for are looking at the same thing portiblity