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I was running my welder today and it started missing in one cylinder. Ive checked for compression and it gets 130 psi and I know its getting a spark cause i got the hell shocked outta me Its gettting gas and a spark so Id imagine the last thing it could be would be a broke valve spring, but I just did a valve job on the engine and all the springs and valves looked good and worked. Am I just missing something?
Reply:Fouled plug?
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepFouled plug?
Reply:You might have a broken insulator on the cylinder that's missing.Using a pair of insulated pliers, take off one spark plug wire at a time. Then you can identify the cylinder that's missing as the idle won't change. If it's not the right cylinder it will run much rougher & try to die.Once you find the bad cylinder, replace the plug & try it again.Under compression electricity will try to go direct to ground without jumping the gap. A cracked insulator on the tip could cause this. While it's idling, also look at the exhaust manifold, the bad cylinder will get red hot.You have adequate compression, it was running fine, it has fuel, a change in plugs didn't solve the problem & plug wires will either fire or not. An ohms check of the wires will tell you if you have a bad one. 5000-10,000 K resistance is ok. More than that, replace the wires.Ran into this problem lots when I was a mechanic & built race engines. Compression can cause problems with plugs.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Run it in the dark, look for a spark jump, bad wire, bad mag cap, etc.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:Today I took the mag cap off and the four posts were black and burnt looking, i cleaned them up and noticed that the rotor bug has about an 1/8th in gap between it and the points when its firing. Is this just burnt up and need to be replaced? I cleaned it up and put it back on and its jumping between cylinder one and two. I tried another wire from another set and it still did it so it makes me think its the magneto?
Reply:More than likely the cap has carbon tracks on it that allows the spark to jump between the cylinders. If you can get a new cap & rotor, that should fix it.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2More than likely the cap has carbon tracks on it that allows the spark to jump between the cylinders. If you can get a new cap & rotor, that should fix it.
Reply:My experience with point ignition systems is once a cap starts to arc between cylinders, there is nothing you can do but replace it. You will never get all the carbon tracks out unless you break them out. Then you need a new cap anyway.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2My experience with point ignition systems is once a cap starts to arc between cylinders, there is nothing you can do but replace it. You will never get all the carbon tracks out unless you break them out. Then you need a new cap anyway.
Reply:I don't. I was just sharing my experiences with point driven engines. Magneto's are another story though. They are self generating for spark, so to shut them off, you usually have to ground the little generator in them.Maybe Lincoln has some part numbers? Or there is Bob Stumpf that repairs them. Maybe he has parts. Just do a Google search for those two.Just got this one: http://billswelderrepair.com/Engine-Drives.html that you can look at & maybe give him a call?Last edited by MarkBall2; 04-17-2009 at 09:00 PM.Reason: added linkMarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2I don't. I was just sharing my experiences with point driven engines. Magneto's are another story though. They are self generating for spark, so to shut them off, you usually have to ground the little generator in them.Maybe Lincoln has some part numbers? Or there is Bob Stumpf that repairs them. Maybe he has parts. Just do a Google search for those two.Just got this one: http://billswelderrepair.com/Engine-Drives.html that you can look at & maybe give him a call?
Reply:Well I'm not an expert....but I know someone who is in my opinion! I met a guy that is a pipliner expert and knows the Lincolns inside and out. He can probably tell you what's wrong and probably has the parts. Larry is at Weldmart online and if you do have an ignition problem they have a full new electronic distributor conversion that will do wonders for the 200. They have a disc on parts that's pretty amazing so give them a try, bet they have what ya need. Call Larry at Weldmart, they have a website www.weldmart.comI don't work for them or have any interest in the company, just met Larry once and was very impressed with what they know about those machines. Good luck...jbman45Century 230A AC/DCLongevity 200 Multifunction MofsetLongevity 200PI Multifunction IGBTVictor Oxy/Weld&Cut5HP 2 stage compressorTractor; tools and 40 years of collecting fine tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by jbman45Well I'm not an expert....but I know someone who is in my opinion! I met a guy that is a pipliner expert and knows the Lincolns inside and out. He can probably tell you what's wrong and probably has the parts. Larry is at Weldmart online and if you do have an ignition problem they have a full new electronic distributor conversion that will do wonders for the 200. They have a disc on parts that's pretty amazing so give them a try, bet they have what ya need. Call Larry at Weldmart, they have a website www.weldmart.comI don't work for them or have any interest in the company, just met Larry once and was very impressed with what they know about those machines. Good luck...
Reply:Bigblue - Do you know which cylinder is not hitting?
Reply:BigBlue - I don't think I'd replace the cap yet.Carbon-tracking shorts usually don't start all at once; they're usually intermittent and worse on humid days. If there's an open in a plug wire -such as when a wire is pulled off of a plug while running- then it wouldn't be unusual for spark to jump around a cap - even a good cap.Cylinder drop testing - Instead of simply pulling a wire off to test for a miss, a better way to short plugs out is to build an ice-pick type tool, with a well connected ground lead. Safely short a cylinder's spark to ground by touching the probe to the plug wire's terminal, if accessible. If the wires have insulator boots, it may be easier to peel back the boots and short at the cap end. Cylinder drop is more noticeable if you can check while the engine is under load.When troubleshooting, I always seem to start with the last repaired item as the prime suspect; in this case it sounds like valve work was the most recent repair. Any chance an adjuster backed loose? Was the 130 psi compression consistent with all four cylinders? Can you check manifold vacuum?How about a vacuum leak at the intake manifold?Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 04-18-2009 at 08:37 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepBigBlue - I don't think I'd replace the cap yet.Carbon-tracking shorts usually don't start all at once; they're usually intermittent and worse on humid days. If there's an open in a plug wire -such as when a wire is pulled off of a plug while running- then it wouldn't be unusual for spark to jump around a cap - even a good cap.Cylinder drop testing - Instead of simply pulling a wire off to test for a miss, a better way to short plugs out is to build an ice-pick type tool, with a well connected ground lead. Safely short a cylinder's spark to ground by touching the probe to the plug wire's terminal, if accessible. If the wires have insulator boots, it may be easier to peel back the boots and short at the cap end. Cylinder drop is more noticeable if you can check while the engine is under load.When troubleshooting, I always seem to start with the last repaired item as the prime suspect; in this case it sounds like valve work was the most recent repair. Any chance an adjuster backed loose? Was the 130 psi compression consistent with all four cylinders? Can you check manifold vacuum?How about a vacuum leak at the intake manifold?Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueIts cylinder one, its jumping back and forth with cylinder two, we took a screw driver while it was running and shorted each wire one at a time and it had no affect on cylinder one or two. . .
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepFor some reason I thought spark was jumping between towers with the wires off; that wouldn't be unusual even with a new cap. However, if spark is jumping while running with the wires connected to the plugs, then there's definitely an open wire, open plug, or a cap issue.Swap wires and plugs from location 3 and 4 with 1 and 2. Swap plugs first, then wires; see if the problem moves.Of course the respective cylinder to cap locations must be retained.Good Luck
Reply:An easy way to check for an intake manifold leak is with it running, spray WD-40 at the manifold mating surfaces.But before you do that, try the plug wire & plug swap. I'm betting that is the problem. Make sure your firing order is correct also as DenRep saidMarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2An easy way to check for an intake manifold leak is with it running, spray WD-40 at the manifold mating surfaces.But before you do that, try the plug wire & plug swap. I'm betting that is the problem. Make sure your firing order is correct also as DenRep said
Reply:I priced the end cap for the Fairbanks Morse magneto here at the local welding supply and they wanted $72.00. One of the local carparts stores will order the same cap for me and sell it to me for $42.50. Welding supply wants $16.50 for the rotor and $21.00 for points.Carparts store wants $9.90 for the rotor and $24.95 for the points. Gaskets are more from the carparts, too. It pays to shop around. The carparts store has to order the parts (4 days shipping) where the welding supply claims to have them on their shelves. Sometimes there is a need for parts RIGHT NOW, sometimes there's not. Just with the difference in the end cap, I chose NOT! Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:Originally Posted by gizzardgutzI priced the end cap for the Fairbanks Morse magneto here at the local welding supply and they wanted $72.00. One of the local carparts stores will order the same cap for me and sell it to me for $42.50. Welding supply wants $16.50 for the rotor and $21.00 for points.Carparts store wants $9.90 for the rotor and $24.95 for the points. Gaskets are more from the carparts, too. It pays to shop around. The carparts store has to order the parts (4 days shipping) where the welding supply claims to have them on their shelves. Sometimes there is a need for parts RIGHT NOW, sometimes there's not. Just with the difference in the end cap, I chose NOT!
Reply:None of the name brand carparts (NAPA, Checker, Autozone, etc.) would talk to me. I got lucky at an independent parts store that specializes in 4X4 parts and accessories. Small town America SUCKS for parts, and magnetos are a specialized item on todays market. If I had the money I'd go with the electronic ignition, the electric idle and the whole nine yards. I don't, so life is interesting in the small city! Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:Originally Posted by gizzardgutzNone of the name brand carparts (NAPA, Checker, Autozone, etc.) would talk to me. I got lucky at an independent parts store that specializes in 4X4 parts and accessories. Small town America SUCKS for parts, and magnetos are a specialized item on todays market. If I had the money I'd go with the electronic ignition, the electric idle and the whole nine yards. I don't, so life is interesting in the small city!I put my new plug wires on today and to my dismay it still runs like crap. I took everything back off the engine, again, and took the side pan off to find a broke exhaust valve spring for cylinder one So tomorrow I get to take the hood off and tear the engine back apart and fix the valve assembly in it. Hopefully this will go together smooth and fix the problem. Thanks everybody for all the helpMy vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Aww man, I didn't see that coming. Especially when you said you had good compression on all cylinders. Usually you end up with a dead cylinder if one of the valves doesn't work open/close correctly.If it's an overhead valve engine, there is a way you can change the spring without pulling the head. If it's a flathead, ya gotta tear it down.Sorry for leading you on a goose chase. I'll remember this when someone else has problems.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2Aww man, I didn't see that coming. Especially when you said you had good compression on all cylinders. Usually you end up with a dead cylinder if one of the valves doesn't work open/close correctly.If it's an overhead valve engine, there is a way you can change the spring without pulling the head. If it's a flathead, ya gotta tear it down.Sorry for leading you on a goose chase. I'll remember this when someone else has problems.
Reply:Originally Posted by bigblueIts a flathead so I get to completely tear it down....
Reply:Flatheads need the head pulled before you can get the spring out. Not sure where the retainer is on these, if they are above or below the casting to ride the camshaft.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2Flatheads need the head pulled before you can get the spring out.
Reply:As I only remember my old Ford flatheads, the valve stem & retainer was below a casting so it could ride on the camshaft. The side cover was so valves could be adjusted by putting shims in under the valve spring. To remove the valve spring, the pan had to be dropped to get to the retainer, then the valve shoved up out of the block after the head was removed.I'll have to do a search because I doubt this is the same engine.An overhead valve engine, the valve can be held in the closed position with either a small rope shoved in the spark plug hole & the cylinder brought to top dead center, or by air pressure. I've changed the springs on overhead valve engines using air pressure. The only thing a person has to worry about is the engine rolling & the valve dropping. Then the head needs pulled.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:The Conkinental block's side opening is mostly clear except for the two threaded bosses used for mounting the side cover. The spring is fairly soft, near the edge, and completely below the roof of the side opening. The tappets have a narrow top with a lash adjustment screw. I think there could be room to "worm" the spring out. I would try it. Originally Posted by MarkBall2...I've changed the springs on overhead valve engines using air pressure. The only thing a person has to worry about is the engine rolling & the valve dropping. Then the head needs pulled.
Reply:I did not know that. I wonder if the head needs pulled to lift the valve out far enough to get the spring out?I've never dropped a valve, but have known guys that have. I like to use a clothesline & bring the cylinder up to TDC.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:ITS FIXED!! I got the valve fixed without pulling the head off. We just took the side cover off and put a welding rod into the spark plug hole on the head to hold the valve up and got the spring and retainer off. The welders back up and running. Now if I could just figure out whats wrong with the carburetor. The idle mixture screw has no affect on how the engine runs. Ive had it off two times now and have cleaned and used compressed air in all the ports on it and they all blew out clean.My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck
Reply:Very nice. Sorry I wasn't much help.The idle.......(I'm talking about cars now, not sure if it would work on a welder engine)With the engine shut off, turn the idle screws in until they are seated. Not to tight, just a snug fit - finger tight even if you need a screwdriver to turn it.Next turn the idle screws out 1.5 turns.Start the engine.Adjust the idle screw to minimum idle - to where it almost dies at idle.Turning one screw at a time out & see if the engine speeds up. Don't turn it more than 1 full turn.Turn the other screw out & see if the engine speeds up. Again, not more than one full turn.Test this by turning the screws in 1/4 turn & see if the engine speed drops. If it does, try to find the balance of max engine speed & where the engine starts to stumble or RPM's drop off. That's your max setting for the idle screws.Now set your idle RPM with the main idle screw.The first steps will set the idle fuel flow only. The idle speed should be a specific range that can be either shown on a tachometer or by the amps/volts out of the generator.If this doesn't work, remember a vacuum leak will cause it to idle faster & have a stumbling idle. The idle screws won't have any difference in the idle. Vacuum leak causes it to run lean.Another thing that affects idle is if the main idle screw is holding the throttle blade open too far, the engine vacuum cannot draw fuel past the needle valves (idle screws). That's why you start off at a general setting of 1.5 turns out on the idle screws, then adjust the idle down to where the idle screws gives you max idle.Hope this helps. Again this is for auto's/trucks with carbs. It might work for your engine on the welder.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2Very nice. Sorry I wasn't much help.The idle.......(I'm talking about cars now, not sure if it would work on a welder engine)With the engine shut off, turn the idle screws in until they are seated. Not to tight, just a snug fit - finger tight even if you need a screwdriver to turn it.Next turn the idle screws out 1.5 turns.Start the engine.Adjust the idle screw to minimum idle - to where it almost dies at idle.Turning one screw at a time out & see if the engine speeds up. Don't turn it more than 1 full turn.Turn the other screw out & see if the engine speeds up. Again, not more than one full turn.Test this by turning the screws in 1/4 turn & see if the engine speed drops. If it does, try to find the balance of max engine speed & where the engine starts to stumble or RPM's drop off. That's your max setting for the idle screws.Now set your idle RPM with the main idle screw.The first steps will set the idle fuel flow only. The idle speed should be a specific range that can be either shown on a tachometer or by the amps/volts out of the generator.If this doesn't work, remember a vacuum leak will cause it to idle faster & have a stumbling idle. The idle screws won't have any difference in the idle. Vacuum leak causes it to run lean.Another thing that affects idle is if the main idle screw is holding the throttle blade open too far, the engine vacuum cannot draw fuel past the needle valves (idle screws). That's why you start off at a general setting of 1.5 turns out on the idle screws, then adjust the idle down to where the idle screws gives you max idle.Hope this helps. Again this is for auto's/trucks with carbs. It might work for your engine on the welder.
Reply:If it runs ok with the choke pulled half way out, it's not getting enough fuel. The idle jets won't help above idle, only at idle.Sounds like there might be a bit of junk in the main jet now. Or the float level is set too low.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2If it runs ok with the choke pulled half way out, it's not getting enough fuel. The idle jets won't help above idle, only at idle.Sounds like there might be a bit of junk in the main jet now. Or the float level is set too low.
Reply:The best way to check for a vacuum leak, manifold leak,etc., that I have found, is to spray all connections, hoses, manifold bolts and head bolts with WD-40 on a running engine. The WD-40 will, when it finds the leak, speed the motor up. I've used this many times and if there is a leak it will find it. Another trick is to run the motor in the dark and concentrate focus on the wiring. Any leak in the wiring will show itself as blue fire. I've found several bad coils, coil wires and plug wires this way. Good luck with your welder.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:You could follow these instructions too bigblue.http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM179.pdfMM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:thanks My vintage equipment 1957 Lincoln sa 2001980's Lincoln 225 AC1952 F-2 ford truck1957 F-250 ford truck |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:23:34