Unknown material, need to Id

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A customer brought in this valve from a milk bulk tank. It leaks because there is a low spot between the holes in the male piece. He wanted me to build it up and re-machine it so it will seal. The problem is, its not stainless. At least not a common stainless. The color isn't right and it has this green corrosion where there is a nick or stamp. I don't think its bronze either. I have a little experience with non-galling stainless like Waukasha stainless which would make sense since its a metal on metal valve. Anybody dealt with this kind of valve? I don't know If I should try to tig it, braze it, powder torch, and if so what alloy.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Copper usually has the greenies....Is it magnetic?Soft?Hard?What does a file do to it?DO NOT TOUCH until we figure out what it is......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I'm betting nickel plated copper.Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller Spectrum 250DMiller Millermatic 200Bunch of old blue dinosaurs....
Reply:I can file it. maybe slightly harder than 300series stainless. Nonmagnetic and not plated. Lots of dents where someone was whacking on the handleLincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Jon may have the answer there. I've dealt with stuff like this before, try a quick bump with a grinder and see what color you get underneath.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Too late, hmmm?I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Last year I fixed a thermostat housing for a Oldsmobile for a customer, old car. Couldn't figure out what the material was and was scratching my head. Accepted si bronze filler, and also accepted aluminum filler. Weird. Try on a non detrimental area you an grind off.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Found an identical valve on ebay but no manufacturer or helpful information.http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-ST...UAAOSwKrhVZSy2Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Is Tri-Clover still around?   Maybe you could call them.
Reply:Chromium does turn green, too.  At a lab I worked at we used to get liquid samples of chromium ,  it was always green.  Thus,  should be able to determine what type stainless steel by specific gravity.  There is an article by air products about causes of green stainless. I would cut and paste the link, apparently I am out of cyber paste.
Reply:@ propanehotrod -  considered 329 SS (Duplex) until you stated "non-magnetic".  Duplex stainless steels are 50/50 ferritic and austenitic but are indeed magnetic.  The stamped numbers in your image #2 even appear to show "323", less the full last digit (3)?  What are the verified symbols/numbers present on the valve body?"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:That's it...Tri-clover... the manufacturer's name anyway. Guess I'll call them tomorrow. Located in Wisconsin but they are a big global company. Wonder if they will talk to little old me?Last edited by propanehotrod; 12-15-2015 at 08:27 PM.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:The only symbols are in pic #2 and they are an H over a 7.  A clover symbol with an N inside. And the 323.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Found this on their website, looks like they're available in 304 or 316.  http://www.csidesigns.com/alfalaval/plugvalve.php
Reply:Interesting. I'm wondering if they didn't do something different in the past. The valve is clearly a different material than the stainless threaded part in pics 1,2 and 3.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:propanehotrodGreat thread: good pics; generate good posts . . .I do weld - but my focus is failure analysis.The gate obviously closes in one direction - hammered vs clean face.. In your first and second photo - the circular TDC of the valve-body's orifice is etched on the gate - the shallow is also evident.I'll leave the metallic identity to the more apt - You & ManoKai.My interest is secondary - what in milk's chemistry effects a sanitary valve body - albeit, unidentified/dated metal.OpuspsThe hammered valve tine - is a mystery and a pointer - it is both: soft and strong.
Reply:You'd think for milk it would be 316 or something similar to it.
Reply:How bad is the wear? Can you just take a light cut on the taper and the end?  It will sit a little deeper but should still work fine.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I think Boostinjdm may have the answer. Seems to be between .010 and .020 deep. I would have to machine it and lap it anyway.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Cupro nickel or Monel?"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Not hard enough to be monel.Never used cupro nickel.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CupronickelLooks like a good candidate.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:From what I've read, Monel isn't quite as hard as annealed stainless.  Irregardless, Monel is mostly Nickel with Copper, and cupro-nickel is more Copper with Nickel (like the U.S. nickel coin). Similar. I just thought it had an unusual color.  Try striking an arc on the very tip of the handle.  See if it heat tints like stainless when the gas is removed.Last edited by Oldendum; 12-16-2015 at 03:22 PM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by propanehotrodI think Boostinjdm may have the answer. Seems to be between .010 and .020 deep. I would have to machine it and lap it anyway.
Reply:Food grade = 316 SS
Reply:Originally Posted by arcflashFood grade = 316 SSOriginally Posted by propanehotrodI can file it. maybe slightly harder than 300series stainless. Nonmagnetic and not plated. Attachment 1293251Lots of dents where someone was whacking on the handle
Reply:Grinding produced 1 reddish spark, not sparks but 1 spark. A little tig action on the ground area and the puddle looks like stainless colors but there is sooty black and some white around the puddle area.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:dang it. cant post the second picLincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:I've seen black soot similar to that come from welding things plated with zinc, and white soot from chrome plated things.Sent from my S4 using Tapatalk1988 Big 50 Diesel CC/CV1982 Weldanpower 225/2101968 SAE 300 motor generatorMaxstar 200SD2015 AHP 200x"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
Reply:@ propanehotrod - your dull red single sparks (non-blooming or individual sparklers) is indicative of alloy containing a sig amount of Ni.  Your valve may be Inconel 625/718.  Inconel, however, tends to have a surface appearance rivaling SS.  Your sample looks dull and non-reflective.  Def contact the manufacturer for material pedigree/confirmation."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Ok, I finally got ahold of a tech guy at Alfa Laval, the parent company of Tri-Clover. He said he had heard that back in the 50's they made nickel valves but didn't know what the alloy was. He is the oldest guy there but has only worked there since the 70"s. Now I'm wondering what are the chances its just nickel, not an alloy?I still think the fix is to machine it but my curiosity wants to know what it is.Lincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.
Reply:Zap a nickel (U.S. 5 cent coin) in the same manner and look at the colors. They are 75% copper and 25% nickel.If it's Cu-NI or NI-Cu it probably won't be too fun to machine.Last edited by Oldendum; 12-17-2015 at 03:33 PM."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Pure Nickel oxidizes to a green color.  Your valve is non-magnetic, and so is nickel.  If your customer is willing to gamble you could use 99% nickel rod, same stuff as you'd use to repair gray cast iron.  See how well it adheres to a non-vital area.  If the nickel weld deposit doesn't crack and fall off, you may be good to go.  The rod is very expensive.  But if the valve is too expensive to replace it might be worth the cost of the filler rod.If the valve is REALLY expensive, then take it to a local lab and have them analyze the chemistry.  Should cost $50-$100 to get a lab to tell you what the valve is made of.  Then you'll know for sure how to weld it for a sound repair.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Take it down to a good scrap yard and have them shoot it with an alloy analyzer gun.  Give them a few bucks."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Dang, just fix the thing already. Send it to me I'll have it fixed and mailed back to you while you guys finish arguing about it. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:I already lapped it a little and it looks like it will seal without too much trouble. So the only thing left to do is argue about what it is or isn't. Thanks to everyone who offered their educated and experienced guesses. Sent from my SM-S820L using TapatalkLincolin Power Wave 450, Lincoln Powermig 255, Lincoln Pro Mig 140, Lincoln Squarewave Tig 275, Miller Big 40 G(with Hobart Hefty suitcase), Thermal Arc 95S and Esab PCM875 in an already full machine shop.