Miller Inverter 180

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I'm thinking about pulling the trigger and getting one of these 'deluxe' packages:http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILLER-DIVER...-/370551594980I haven't been able to find anything on craigslist or for sale semi-locally for a good price. I'd really like to spend less, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.What's everyone's take on the package, good/bad?Thanks for your input!Hobart Handler 125 #500495Miller Diversion 165 #907005 (tig learning box)
Reply:At that price spend the extra $200 or so and get the Syncrowave 200 without the wheels and build your own cart. You'll have a machine with more output power, more functions and controls, the ability to stick weld, and the ability to add water cooled torch easily later if you want to go that route.To me the Diversions are underpowered for say alum, with a low top end duty cycle, and lack any advanced options not to mention the ability to stick weld for way too much money. About the only up side is the ability to do thin material on 110v power, pretty much stainless and mild steel sheet metal.  Honestly not really worth the trade off in cost in my opinion. You'd be better served with a Maxstar 150/200 if that's your main push. If you think you are going this route to get a machine to do alum on 110v power, give it up. It simply will not have the output on a standard house hold  110v outlet to do alum of any useful thickness on average..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks DSW for the input - I'm a hobbyist (like many here) and just wanted to get a machine that could run on 110v although it would run most of the time on 220v single phase.I don't plan on doing major tig welding, just exhaust, intercoolers etc. I thought the 180 would be enough for this, but perhaps I should go with the 200. One of the really nice thing about the inverters are the size. the Syncrowave, although a really nice machine, feels like it's twice the size of the inverters and may provide me with more options, that I wouldn't know how to use (at first).I had considered the Maxstar, but I do want to weld alum, and thus need the ac machine.Although that can be changed, I'd be running the 220v from a dryer plug, which I believe is only 30amp - From the different reading, it seems the syncrowave needs 60amp to be comfortable.Another options for something sub $2k that will be a good compromise?Hobart Handler 125 #500495Miller Diversion 165 #907005 (tig learning box)
Reply:I can also get my hands on a used Lincoln 175 Pro Tig - I'll need to buy a separate regulator for it, but it's pretty cheap ($800). Would that be a good option?Hobart Handler 125 #500495Miller Diversion 165 #907005 (tig learning box)
Reply:Not familiar with that Lincoln I'm afraid. I don't see a Pro Tig listed in their manuals. The Square Wave 175 looks very similar to the older Miller Tig Mates. About the only advantage other than price with the Tig Mate, would be the ability to stick weld and the easy of changing torches and adding a cooler. There it would be a tough call if the Diversions 110v capability out weighed the price advantage and ability to stick weld of a machine similar to the Tig Mate's.I've never tried to run my Syncrowave 200 off 30 amps. I've never tripped the breaker even running balls to the wall on a 50 amp breaker however.Alum is going to be your big power hog. To do 3/32" - 1/8" alum, you will have to run the Diversion on 220v. Most likely have to use 220v power to do 16 ga alum as well, depending on the wall outlet and what all is plugged in to that circuit.I understand your ideas about why you like the Diversion. If the machine was 1/2 - 2/3rds the price, I'd probably think it was worth it. I just don't see the pluses out weighing the minuses at that price, especially when if you look around you can find a used Syncrowave 180/200 for almost 1/2 the price of a new Dynasty 180.Unfortunately you are caught in the usual new tig guy trap. You want a machine to do everything, want a decent machine, want to run on 110v power and want it to be reasonably inexpensive. You will have to give up some thing. You can get a good AC/DC tig that runs on 110v/220v power like the Dynasty 200, but you will pay for it. You can get a very nice DC only 110v/220v tig like the Maxstars at a reasonable price, but give up the AC for alum. You can get a very nice AC/DC tig like the Syncrowaves or the TA185 with good power and options, but give up the ability to run on 110v power. You can get the Diversion, and give up options and output power/ duty cycle to get a machine that will do AC in that price range. Or you can roll the dice with one of the cheap imports...Only you can weigh the options and decide what ones are most important to you. I chose to go with the Syncrowave 200, simply because I got the most options and output for the money. To me portability and the ability to use 110v power was something I could hold off on. I still got a machine that will hold it's value well so I can sell it and upgrade when I have the need and funds. Until then I've got all the functions so I could learn Ac tig and not be handicapped by my purchase almost as soon as I started learning..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:^^He is right, you can't get everything you want and want it to run on 110v. As a newbie and a hobbyist  I find that things I want to do are good for this diversion 180 on 110v. I found a few things that I wish I could do but no access to a 220v. You won't be able to do anything super thick but I am doing a lot of practice, practice making catch cans, overflow tanks (all in progress) it is working very well.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:What do you think will be the thickest Al you'll be welding?
Reply:I agree with DSW.My name's not Jim....
Reply:I think basically it boils down to what you are doing and your experience. Seems like everyone that has been welding for years and years and is really good at it likes the bigger/better machines. For the person just getting into welding it's a great introductory machine. I honestly don't see myself being a full time welder ever and will probably never grow out of this machine.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Buy something used.  I bought a fully loaded Syncrowave 250 with a cooler, tungstens, two bottles full of argon for $1500.  The deals are out there.  If you don't have to have it right now, it's worth waiting.  It has more power than I will probably ever need.  Around here, it's not hard to find used Sync 200s for $1500 or less that are almost new.  There's not much to go wrong with them.Either that or spend a little more and buy the HTP Invertig 221 if you really want an inverter.http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetail...ode=70221-12.5
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot familiar with that Lincoln I'm afraid. I don't see a Pro Tig listed in their manuals. The Square Wave 175 looks very similar to the older Miller Tig Mates. About the only advantage other than price with the Tig Mate, would be the ability to stick weld and the easy of changing torches and adding a cooler. There it would be a tough call if the Diversions 110v capability out weighed the price advantage and ability to stick weld of a machine similar to the Tig Mate's.I've never tried to run my Syncrowave 200 off 30 amps. I've never tripped the breaker even running balls to the wall on a 50 amp breaker however.Alum is going to be your big power hog. To do 3/32" - 1/8" alum, you will have to run the Diversion on 220v. Most likely have to use 220v power to do 16 ga alum as well, depending on the wall outlet and what all is plugged in to that circuit.I understand your ideas about why you like the Diversion. If the machine was 1/2 - 2/3rds the price, I'd probably think it was worth it. I just don't see the pluses out weighing the minuses at that price, especially when if you look around you can find a used Syncrowave 180/200 for almost 1/2 the price of a new Dynasty 180.Unfortunately you are caught in the usual new tig guy trap. You want a machine to do everything, want a decent machine, want to run on 110v power and want it to be reasonably inexpensive. You will have to give up some thing. You can get a good AC/DC tig that runs on 110v/220v power like the Dynasty 200, but you will pay for it. You can get a very nice DC only 110v/220v tig like the Maxstars at a reasonable price, but give up the AC for alum. You can get a very nice AC/DC tig like the Syncrowaves or the TA185 with good power and options, but give up the ability to run on 110v power. You can get the Diversion, and give up options and output power/ duty cycle to get a machine that will do AC in that price range. Or you can roll the dice with one of the cheap imports...Only you can weigh the options and decide what ones are most important to you. I chose to go with the Syncrowave 200, simply because I got the most options and output for the money. To me portability and the ability to use 110v power was something I could hold off on. I still got a machine that will hold it's value well so I can sell it and upgrade when I have the need and funds. Until then I've got all the functions so I could learn Ac tig and not be handicapped by my purchase almost as soon as I started learning.
Reply:Originally Posted by kazlxBuy something used.  I bought a fully loaded Syncrowave 250 with a cooler, tungstens, two bottles full of argon for $1500.  The deals are out there.  If you don't have to have it right now, it's worth waiting.  It has more power than I will probably ever need.  Around here, it's not hard to find used Sync 200s for $1500 or less that are almost new.  There's not much to go wrong with them.Either that or spend a little more and buy the HTP Invertig 221 if you really want an inverter.http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetail...ode=70221-12.5
Reply:http://www.weldersupply.com/productd...&ID=42&pID=371hi, I bought my CST 280 from here . I found a 180SD on craigs list for 1000.00 like new.The advantage of the 180 sd 200, or 250 synco is the stick welding feature. My 180SD is a older one when you just turn on and go. Good luck.
Reply:hey guys, i bought a diversion 180 for the same thing as you. i have a 92 toyota supra with a 2jztge sinbgle turbo swap and i did/doing aluminum pipes, stainless and aluminized steel, ive also welded holes closed on my cast aluminum manifold. there hasn't been one thing on my car that is metal and have not been able to weld. this machine rocks IMO. ive also converted my 180 to run a water cooled torch to run much longer welds. and the fact that its very light in weight i can move it around easily. yes, it might be a bit costly but ive had no regrets. good luck!
Reply:Cool! Now sell me the R154 trans I need Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleCool! Now sell me the R154 trans I need
Reply:And what's your location? I want to do a 4g63 swap in my conquest but need a trans to mate it up to.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:sorry bro, im in san diego. far from chicago
Reply:Yeah that Sync 200 is a GREAT machine, but definitely 'NOT' portable @ over 230lbs!!  It's a 'Heavy Pig' of a machine when compared to the Diversion 165 or 180.  Having said that, If I was stationary and had the available power, I'd choose it over the 180 hands down, especially because of the Stick feature.  However, I would NEVER take the STL over 'any' of the Diversions, simply because there is no 'Aluminum Welding' with the former..  The $2000.00 bucks for the 180 seems a bit 'high' as well, but maybe I haven't checked for awhile...  Pretty sure I saw it up here for around $1850.00 bucks around Christmas Time.  The Diversions are Great machines and I've found that if you 'need' that extra bit of juice for Aluminum, a Helium Tank will help in a BIG way...  Perfect for the Hobbyist and light-weight welder.Anyway, hope you found something!Cheers,Miller Diversion 165120 amp Buzz BoxVictor Oxy/Ace Oxy/LPGSmith "Little" Oxy/LPGHypertherm Powermax 30Lot's of Misc. tools n' crap....
Reply:You can make a cart yourself and save a few bucks on the sticker price.I don't generally recommend inverters. I can personally testify to their unreliability. Conventional power supplies are a better investment. A dirty, rough-and-tumble welding shop is not a good place for delicate microelectronics.OK this is just a personal comment. Why the hell does it come with a "welding for dummies" book?  Kind of shows that the management at Miller has an especially high opinion of it's customers.
Reply:Originally Posted by JoshfromsaltlakeOK this is just a personal comment. Why the hell does it come with a "welding for dummies" book?  Kind of shows that the management at Miller has an especially high opinion of it's customers.
Reply:Thanks to everyone that provided some input - I ended up picking up a miller 165 diversion, for about $1k which I thought was a pretty good deal.Silly me though I should've re-read the specs, as I thought I'd still be able to do 110v tig welding. This is a 230v only machine  DOH!On the plus side that will force me to run it on its proper voltage and get all of the power that I want without burning the garage down.Time to put some hours behind the hood!Hobart Handler 125 #500495Miller Diversion 165 #907005 (tig learning box)