What am i doing wrong...mig aluminum help, with pics

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Hi guys. Need a little help with my first time mig welding aluminum. Having some problems and don't know what to try next.  I'm using a Miller 180 with a miller spoolmate 100 spool gun 4043 .030 wire and  100% argon set at 30 cfh. Cleaning with stainless brush. I've tried it at the recommended 5/80 for 1/8" aluminum and everything in between and still get these UGLY welds.Any help will be very appreciated.
Reply:Try this video - could answer some of your questions.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Looks VERY cold.  There is no setting recommendation for 1/8" aluminum for the MM180.  14ga. is the thickest and that calls for 10/100 for .030" 4043.Running on 115V or 230V?  Needs to be 230V.Polarity?  Should be EP.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Sorry.  I now see the chart you were referring to for the 230V Autoset version.  Is that what you have?Still looks cold or wrong polarity.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Still looks cold or wrong polarity.
Reply:Its on DCEP, negative is on the work clamp lead. Right polarity?Yes, 230V auto set version.Dave thanks for the video. I've seen some like that one before, may have even seen that one, I just cant get anything that comes close to that hissing sound. Is that recommended wire speed/volts that is one the machine that far off for the AL? It was pretty close for the mild steel wire that came with the machine.Thanks guys for taking the time to help!Last edited by tmc.1; 08-13-2014 at 03:11 PM.
Reply:I've never welded Al with a mig/spoolgun, but I had a problem with a Millermatic Passport I bought brand new. I always had fluxcore in it because I was welding plate outside. When switched over to solid wire I just couldn't get it to weld right. Finally, I got fed up and took it apart- found the gas line was not attached inside the pelican case. I hooked it up and clamped it good-Voila!! You just never know. It's worth a look.
Reply:Are you welding outside? If you are inside with no wind you should be able to turn the gas flow down a bit, too much can actually be a bad thing. Couple things to check are that you didn't damage an O-ring when you pushed in the spool gun. Also make sure its pushed in all the way, the thumb screw that keeps the gun falling out should be wound out and then the spool gun pushed in hard to make sure it seats. Another thought, because you are welding on an old hinge, there may be corrosion and dirt sandwiched in between those 2 layers. you may be better off pulling the hinge off and cleaning both parts thoroughly before trying to weld them.Start straight up and down and then transition into a push when you get going, when u get to the angle that works stay with it. This will happen fast,you will do this within a second. Also doesn't matter if the settings it gives you works or not, key with aluminum is WET. Again, remember keep the puddle wet.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:it looks to me like a cleaning problem, don't confuse aluminum clean with steel clean since except for "c" at the beginning of the word and the "n" at the end; they're not related too much.The photos show the entire area is a lap of a hinge to some sheet/plate. But the area around appears saturated in oil/grease/dirt so what's under that hinge leaf?If, as it appears to me, the hinge leaf is totally soaked underneath, then what's happening is the grease is vaporizing and 'burning' because the weld zone is not clean.Clean in aluminum means the entire area is washed with solvent, hot dipped is good as a start, then the area is soaked with acetone two to five times and each time is blown off with clean high pressure air, (to reach under the lap) then brushed when there is no more dark residue coming out from under the hinge leaf. Then I'd heat it to 100-120 F and cool it again, and rinse with acetone again, then brush again, and repeat. After a real cleaning there will not be a brownish residue coming out with the acetone when its blown out and you're getting closer to ready to weld.The adjoining TIG welds show that the thinner material is more easily controlled with TIG but the blown-up MIG spatter-mess is likely from contamination under that leaf as I see it.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:I can imagine all the spray lube used on this over the years. Not the ideal situation to learn how the machine runs on aluminium Originally Posted by Kevin Morinit looks to me like a cleaning problem, don't confuse aluminum clean with steel clean since except for "c" at the beginning of the word and the "n" at the end; they're not related too much.The photos show the entire area is a lap of a hinge to some sheet/plate. But the area around appears saturated in oil/grease/dirt so what's under that hinge leaf?If, as it appears to me, the hinge leaf is totally soaked underneath, then what's happening is the grease is vaporizing and 'burning' because the weld zone is not clean.Clean in aluminum means the entire area is washed with solvent, hot dipped is good as a start, then the area is soaked with acetone two to five times and each time is blown off with clean high pressure air, (to reach under the lap) then brushed when there is no more dark residue coming out from under the hinge leaf. Then I'd heat it to 100-120 F and cool it again, and rinse with acetone again, then brush again, and repeat. After a real cleaning there will not be a brownish residue coming out with the acetone when its blown out and you're getting closer to ready to weld.The adjoining TIG welds show that the thinner material is more easily controlled with TIG but the blown-up MIG spatter-mess is likely from contamination under that leaf as I see it.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:This is more about general workmanship practice than your specific problem......You just don't go to welding on the part you're trying to fix until you know you've got the machine set correctly (or at least close).   And you do that by making some test welds on some clean scrap material of a similar type, thickness  and configuration.
Reply:Originally Posted by HT2-4956This is more about general workmanship practice than your specific problem......You just don't go to welding on the part you're trying to fix until you know you've got the machine set correctly (or at least close).   And you do that by making some test welds on some clean scrap material of a similar type, thickness  and configuration.
Reply:I doubt partially dirty material, on several different pieces, will cause the result you are getting.If it only occurred on this piece, and not the other ones, I'd say dirty/oily problem.Technique, setup, too long stickout length, shielding gas not making it to the piece, machine error, etc - how about running over to your local Miller store (with the machine, regulator, and bottle) and asking for help?Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 08-14-2014 at 12:26 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I am not convinced this is a cleaning issue.  Even dirty aluminum would weld better than that with a spool gun.  I would check and make sure that the argon is actually coming out of the welding nozzle when you pull the trigger.  20 cfh is plenty.    This looks like a lack of shielding gas to me..... and maybe the settings are wrong as well.Looks like Dave and I were typing at the same time.  I agree with his opinion.   Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by tmc.1I really wasn't trying to fix anything, I'm still trying to learn what I'm doing. I've welded on several different things, that's just what I took pics of. The results of everything was the same as that pic. I don't have a huge supply of scrap aluminum laying around,and I cant find any scrap, so i'm trying to make do with what I have. Anyway....Several people have commented that the area is "dirty". I wire brushed the snot out of that area(using a SS brush) but perhaps I've underestimated how important it is to have CLEAN aluminum. I've watched several other guys weld aluminum, with both mig and tig, and all they ever did was hit it with a brush and weld. But, I'll take the advice of the folks here and double my cleaning efforts. Thank you to everyone for your help!
Reply:Update.Someone mentioned that I might have a gas leak so I rechecked and I did have a slight leak where the hose hooked to the back of the machine. I don't feel like it was enough to cause problems but it has been fixed none the less. I also turned my gas down as that was mentioned as a potential problem. Neither helped any. Soooo....I turned that baby up, way past what was recommended. Wire speed wide open and volts on 8. That helped but I couldn't keep from burning through so I turned volts down to 5, which also helped but still burning through. Evidentially there is a SMALL sweet spot that a machine can be set for welding aluminum and I haven't found it yet.Thanks again to all that have offered advice.
Reply:heres my advice for mig alu take regulator crank it up to over 40cfh turn your machine up wire speed up and move and i mean move you cant weld alu like steel its two diff beasts one you need a  light touch slow movements and alittle patients the other needs brute force from the welding machine and fast precise movements.   So keep your machine turned up and if your burning threw the alu move faster
Reply:IMHO looks like a gas problem.  I had a MM180 with the same spool gun you have. I had no problem laying down a decent weld on Al.  Only real difference vs. steel was increased travel speed (for me anyway).
Reply:Look up a welding calculator, put in your parameters, then set the machine to those parameters. You will likely need to measure your wire speed by pulling the trigger for 6 seconds, measuring the wire and multiply by 10. Then figure out what tap is closest to the required voltage.  Then, pull the trigger and haul ***, pushing the gun.
Reply:That aluminum has a very heavy oxide coating on it. It is very dirty. The black soot is an indication of contaminants and or a gas problem. This is going to be hard to get clean. Best bet would be blasting it in a blast cabinet. The grapes of metal deposited also indicates poor welding technique as well. I don't see anywhere in that weld where you got a good puddle to form and keep it consistently.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Have you verified the argon is good? When I first got my spool gun and argon bottle I had nothing problems. I gave up and just figured it wouldn't work. I went through several spools of wire and even tried 5356 just to see if it would work. I eventually emptied the bottle, when I got it refilled it was like night and day. It welded great and was fun too. My LWS said anytime I think the gas may be bad just bring it back and they will refill it. They said sometimes it happens.
Reply:Originally Posted by Labmaster02Have you verified the argon is good? When I first got my spool gun and argon bottle I had nothing problems. I gave up and just figured it wouldn't work. I went through several spools of wire and even tried 5356 just to see if it would work. I eventually emptied the bottle, when I got it refilled it was like night and day. It welded great and was fun too. My LWS said anytime I think the gas may be bad just bring it back and they will refill it. They said sometimes it happens.
Reply:Originally Posted by tmc.1I've thought of that!! How do you verify that the argon is good?
Reply:you talk about cranking your wire-speed up. . . . .tiss, tissremember your wire needs to be sprayed in. have some contact tips ready and try this.turn your wire down way too much. you should burn-back and get a green arc off the tip. good. change tips and turn it up a littleas you turn up your wire a little at a time, you will notice that it will burn off closer and closer to the puddle, go to far, and you get sparks and a whole lot of crackling mess. back it down until you get the magic hiss with maybe a slight crackle when you whip back into the puddle.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveEasiest way is to borrow a known good tank of argon.If it welds, and the other one doesn't, bad tank.Or bring your machine to your local miller store and have them help you out - that's what I recommend in your situation.Originally Posted by tmc.1Is it common to get a bad tank of gas? The dealer where I bought my welder/spoolgun told me they knew nothing about using it. That's good advice though, perhaps I should load everything up and take it to another dealer that is 40 miles away. Before I do, I check to see if they know anything about it.
Reply:I starter with a mig on al last year. A couple of lessons learned are that al mig is much more tolerant than tot for cleanliness. I doubt it is your problem. Use lots of heat and move fast. For 1/4 I was at least mid range on a shopmaster 300. Welder set in cv mode of course. Wire speed increases can have a similar effect to increasing welder output. Usually when it balled up like that I needed more wire speed. My feeder had a trigger pons halfway that would allow gas flow but no wire movement. I used this to provide gas coverage before arc strike. Hope this helps
Reply:IT WAS THE GAS!!!!What they did was give me a tank of 75/25 by mistake. It even says on the invoice that I bought argon. But in little bitty numbers on the tank it says 75/25. Stupid mistake, I'll admit it, I never thought to look and see what was ACTUALLY in the tank. I asked for argon, they charged me for argon, the receipt said argon....I thought I had argon. I took it back to the welding supply store, showed them their mistake and they made it right. I got a tank of 100% argon and I'm laying down great looking welds. Man, I was ready to pull my hair out over this. Like somebody said in this thread, hand to the forehead on how easy this is and what a stupid mistake I made. Anyway...Thanks to all you guys for the help, you've been great.
Reply:Good news for sure Now go weld a ton of stuff even if it isn't broken yet Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.