Most cost effective way to weld aluminium?

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I want to start with saying I am new to this and half of what I read on here might as well be in a different language. But that said, there is a lot of knowledge. I'm looking to weld aluminium, probably no thicker than 3/8 ever. Whatever grade aluminum my local metal superstore carries stock in the back. Thinks like a roof basket for my jeep, tool organization in the back of my truck (I'm an E&I in the oilfield) and maybe a slip tank if I feel I can weld it properly, or maybe just tack it together enough so that I can take it to be welded properly. I know I can TIG, and MIG weld aluminium. Both either way seems super expensive. What is the most cost effective equipment I should look at/for? Thanks,
Reply:You are correct that any setup for welding aluminum is expensive.    Also is not easy to learn.  Many hours into practice.   (How much is your time worth?)  You probably won't be able to buy the needed material for what you can buy a finished product for.  If you are looking to save money building stuff for your 4x4 vs buying, you are in for a big shock.If you truly have an interest in learning to weld as an (expensive) hobby then plenty of suggestions here.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawYou are correct that any setup for welding aluminum is expensive.    Also is not easy to learn.  Many hours into practice.   (How much is your time worth?)  You probably won't be able to buy the needed material for what you can buy a finished product for.  I'd toy are looking to save money building stuff for your 4x4 vs buying, you are in for a big shock.
Reply:chinese tig welder like my old everlast 200dx. Under $1500 total setup and you can weld anything.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Aluminum and inexpensive don't go together, as you seem to understand already.  What power supply do you have and how much room for a machine?  You'll need an AC tig to do all sizes of aluminum.  Migs not gonna work on the thinner stuff.  Geography plays a role in machine prices, but a used transformer machine will be the most economical (of durable machines that will last you a lifetime).  You'll need at least 50 amps of 220 volts available and preferably 100 if you're gonna use the machine to its full potential.  Squarewave machines like a Syncrowave or Lincoln squarewave will give you some better puddle control and some other features over a traditional sine wave machine.  For sine wave, a Miller Dialarc, 330 AB/P or an old Lincoln Idealarc.  The aluminum puddle is a but more "wet" than a square wave.  Hard to explain until you see it.  Kinda like a carburetor vs. Fuel injection.   You can totally get by with a sine wave machine.  For a squarewave, figure on getting setup for under $1500.  A sine wave can be done for under $1000. The biggest issue you will have is inexperience.  Aluminum tig takes a lot of time to learn.  Figure on at least 30 hours of seat time before you can reasonably stick anything together.  Hundreds of hours before your welds look really good too and are totally sound.Have you considered powder coated steel?Last edited by Drf255; 09-03-2014 at 06:00 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255Aluminum and inexpensive don't go together, as you seem to understand already.  What power supply do you have and how much room for a machine?  You'll need an AC tig to do all sizes of aluminum.  Migs not gonna work on the thinner stuff.  Geography plays a role in machine prices, but a used transformer machine will be the most economical (of durable machines that will last you a lifetime).  You'll need at least 50 amps of 220 volts available and preferably 100 if you're gonna use the machine to its full potential.  Squarewave machines like a Syncrowave or Lincoln squarewave will give you some better puddle control and some other features over a traditional sine wave machine.  For sine wave, a Miller Dialarc, 330 AB/P or an old Lincoln Idealarc.  The aluminum puddle is a but more "wet" than a square wave.  Hard to explain until you see it.  Kinda like a carburetor vs. Fuel injection.   You can totally get by with a sine wave machine.  For a squarewave, figure on getting setup for under $1500.  A sine wave can be done for under $1000. The biggest issue you will have is inexperience.  Aluminum tig takes a lot of time to learn.  Figure on at least 30 hours of seat time before you can reasonably stick anything together.  Hundreds of hours before your welds look really good too and are totally sound.Have you considered powder coated steel?
Reply:Your math on weight is way off. 1/8 steel is only about 1.5 times the weight of 1/4 inch alum. Steel would be what I would recommend. 1/4 inch alum is going to be much more expensive compared to 1/8 inch steel too. Then there is the welding and equip.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYour math on weight is way off. 1/8 steel is only about 1.5 times the weight of 1/4 inch alum. Steel would be what I would recommend. 1/4 inch alum is going to be much more expensive compared to 1/8 inch steel too. Then there is the welding and equip.
Reply:At the end of the day I am really looking at how cost effective something is, not how expensive. I bill my truck out for a lot, and it looks good on paper that I spend money on it. But you do have me thinking that maybe buying a nice used Miller welder to replace my Mastercraft and making it out of steel might be the better option. I really don't know how thick steel has to be to kinda keep its shape either, maybe 1/16 for the walls of the drawers would be lots? I know 1/8 for the top would probably be lots, might take on a few dents and stuff, but would be far more rigid than the 1/2" plywood and that has help up, ish. lol. And side question, why does it seem like all the welding cards angle the welder instead of flat?
Reply:Originally Posted by Jeff000At the end of the day I am really looking at how cost effective something is, not how expensive. I bill my truck out for a lot, and it looks good on paper that I spend money on it. But you do have me thinking that maybe buying a nice used Miller welder to replace my Mastercraft and making it out of steel might be the better option. I really don't know how thick steel has to be to kinda keep its shape either, maybe 1/16 for the walls of the drawers would be lots? I know 1/8 for the top would probably be lots, might take on a few dents and stuff, but would be far more rigid than the 1/2" plywood and that has help up, ish. lol. And side question, why does it seem like all the welding cards angle the welder instead of flat?
Reply:How about those alpha tig off amazon for $600.  They seem to get good reviewsMiller 350PMiller 30AHobart trekHTP Invertig 221
Reply:I would get a mig and a spool gun for cheap welding of AL. I had never welded on AL till I went to a Hobart show at TSC and it was like 2 beads later I did fairly good welds but, I also had been welding with wire for a couple years before that so please factor that into this equation.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by flux core joeI would get a mig and a spool gun for cheap welding of AL. I had never welded on AL till I went to a Hobart show at TSC and it was like 2 beads later I did fairly good welds but, I also had been welding with wire for a couple years before that so please factor that into this equation.
Reply:Most better migs can run a spool gun for example all the machines that are from Lincoln,Miller, or Hobart that have 140 or more amps can run a spool gun such has the Millermatic series, Power Mig, Handler, and Ironman. For 3/8ths and under I would get a 200 amp or bigger unit but buyer beware spool guns are bulky.Last edited by flux core joe; 09-03-2014 at 06:48 PM.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by flux core joeMost better migs can run a spool gun for example all the machines that are from Lincoln,Miller, or Hobart that have 140 or more amps can run a spool gun such has the Millermatic series, Power Mig, Handler, and Ironman.
Reply:Nope that can't do it but this can http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/li...l#.VAebJvldXEwLincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:It also depends on the Spoolgun and type of controller it needs.   The Goweld in my signature will run of pretty much any DC power source and weld Aluminum.   It's made in the USA and doesn't need any kind of control box.   It doesn't even need a welder power source, just a couple of batteries.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Density of iron is 7.8 g/m2 and aluminum is 2.7 g/m2. So steel is roughly 3 times as heavy as aluminum.But if you only use half the thickness of steel then it's only 1.5 times as heavy. Or put another way, 50% more weight. Now factor in the price difference between alu and steel. I don't know what you pay but for me alu sheet metal is about 5 times more expensive per lbs than steel.Regarding the construction you can also build the frame in steel and then bolt alu sheets to that.
Reply:7.8 grams per square meter? 2.7 g/m2? lol wuta square meter has zero volume, thats like less than air assuming you meant m^3.I think you were going for 2.70 g/cm3 or 2700 kg/m3.Last edited by MikeGyver; 09-04-2014 at 04:48 AM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:I didn't know the thickness you were talking about here.  Spoolgun would work, but like FCJoe said they are bulky.  You'll be limited to the thicker stuff.  The amount you can spend is limitless depending on how you want to go.  An older used 200+ amp Miller with the correct Spoolgun would do the trick the easiest.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyver7.8 grams per square meter? 2.7 g/m2? lol wuta square meter has zero volume, thats like less than air assuming you meant m^3.I think you were going for 2.70 g/cm3 or 2700 kg/m3.
Reply:1/4" alum needs a lot of amps to tig it right. Figure you are up in the 250 amp class tig or higher. That's going to take a big chunk of cash to buy, so you are well beyond "inexpensive" at this point. 1/8" alum needs at least 150 amps AC to tig weld, and more is better. I like to set the machine to 180-200 amps for 1/8" so I can get the puddle formed really fast and fly. With students, we have them crank the machines down to around 150 so they have more time to react..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Most cost effective?  If you have a limited timeframe, look into renting/leasing a push-pull GMAW setup from a LWS or equipment leasing company.  A few hundred bucks vs. a few thousand.
Reply:From experience, the amount of money you save building most jeep add-ons is not worth the amount of labor and frustration that goes into it.Jeeps, especially older ones, have so many available addons and you can usually get a deal. If you make your own stuff, its only for the satisfaction of being the one who made it.I have a hobart 210mvp and a spool gun. It ran me about $1000 for the machine and c25 cylinder. And another $230 for argon and spoolgun. (i got the spool gun used for $80)Anything smaller than the 210mvp mig I have won't weld the thickness aluminum you are looking for.
Reply:if you buy an old transformer tigs figure another $300 to $1500 for electrical work. most panels just can't accommodate such huge breakers. Most people are probably better off with an inverter tig imho.I know it's not always cost effective to build over buy, but here in Canada we get bend over dry on shipping and import charges, and not many people make the stuff up here. A nice Aluminium basket in the states is like 300 bucks, but up here the same thing is like 700, and for me to bring that 300 dollar one up it would be 450-500 after exchange, import and shipping. And I do like making stuff. I already have a 75/25 argon bottle. Yes steel is far cheaper than aluminium here. And I need a cheaper place to get both.  Originally Posted by AluminumWelderif you buy an old transformer tigs figure another $300 to $1500 for electrical work. most panels just can't accommodate such huge breakers. Most people are probably better off with an inverter tig imho.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jeff000I know it's not always cost effective to build over buy, but here in Canada we get bend over dry on shipping and import charges, and not many people make the stuff up here. A nice Aluminium basket in the states is like 300 bucks, but up here the same thing is like 700, and for me to bring that 300 dollar one up it would be 450-500 after exchange, import and shipping. And I do like making stuff. I already have a 75/25 argon bottle. Yes steel is far cheaper than aluminium here. And I need a cheaper place to get both. I should note I am an Electrician/Instrument tech by trade and work in the oilfield. I have a 125A service. And while I do not have 3 phase I do have access to VFD's that I could use for phase conversion. For a welder I would probably want the vfd at least twice the rated current of the welder, so would like to keep it under 75A draw in that case.
Reply:id go with alu everyone thinks its more expensive then steel but if you look at the cost per lb vs per lb it is butttt alu is lighter so you get more per lb then steel and its easer to cut and shape vs steel ive got 1/4in pl for 1.90$ canadain a lb and have payed up to .80cents a lb for steel maybe more been awhile since i bought. as for a welder id get a good miller or lincoln 200series or higher and a nice spool gun. i have a lincoln 255 with a profax gun works awsome never had an issue i got it used for 500$ i also have a xmt with a 30a spool gun that setups pricey new but kicks the snot out of the profax.both run off a 40a 220plug yeah they can use more but ive never had an issue with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by flux core joeI would get a mig and a spool gun for cheap welding of AL. I had never welded on AL till I went to a Hobart show at TSC and it was like 2 beads later I did fairly good welds but, I also had been welding with wire for a couple years before that so please factor that into this equation.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jeff000I should note I am an Electrician/Instrument tech by trade and work in the oilfield. I have a 125A service.
Reply:If you decide on a thinner gauge aluminum I'd use solid (aircraft) rivets. For your 1/4 inch you could drill and tap the seperator panels. You could do a #10-24 screw easily into the edge.Welding all those inside corners would likely be easier with a spool gun... If you have the space. If you go tig plan on a water cooled setup. And as others have mentioned... 250 amps. It gets hot.Get a machine that is the correct voltage and phase. While you can run a welder off a roto phase is will need to be big. You can't generally run a welder off a vfd as most are designed for motor loads.
Reply:Originally Posted by AluminumWelderThat is not really adequate for an old tranny machine. I have a lincoln 275pt and the installation manual specifies a 125amp breaker.I had to install a new service panel, run $400 worth of copper wire to where I wanted the machine, a sub panel and I did it all myself. The material costs $1000 without my labor. I was clueless and leanred the hardway inverter would of been cheaper in terms of overall cost. The inverter machines might use a 50amp breaker, you still might need to put in a bigger circuit breaker box. If you are lucky you can use some half size breakers and just rearrange.
Reply:I would DEFINITELY +1 on the solid rivets (thanks, FORHIRE), but that is what I normally work in.Ummm...what about OxyAcetylene.  that is how I weld aluminum.  Used tanks from craig's list.  Refill at your LWS.  Used torch off eBay.  I got into oxy-fuel welding EXACTLY because it is the inexpensive way to go.KevKevin / Machine_Punk from The Aerodrome Studio - Lincoln PowerMIG 210 MP - Meco N Midget w/custom welding station - Vintage Victor 100Current Projects: The Aerodrome Studio