What happens when I use a stick that's too thin? (SMAW)

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I asked a similar question before, but I want to be more specific this time around: what are the possible issues with using a rod that's too narrow?I've read that I can just manipulate the rod in circles or other pattern to lay a bigger bead. Does this work for fillets? Does it work for everything? (Note: I'm thinking of switching from 2mm 6013 to 1.6mm 6011, which I'll run at 20-40 amps. I'll be welding dirty sheet steel that's 0.7-3.0 mm thick.)I assume slag inclusions won't be a problem with 6010/6011.Changing the stick very frequently will be annoying.Will I have stuck electrode more than I do with a normal sized rod? Will a stuck electrode immediately turn red hot? (I assume this isn't an issue with the correct amperage for the rod.)Will a cheap used inverter have trouble delivering such a low current? (It's twice as heavy as newer inverters, and it supposedly does 10-200 A, if the numbers on the dial can be believed.)Any other problems I haven't thought of?
Reply:I'd ditch the 6013 to..Get some 1/16" (1.6mm) 6011, I'd prefer 3/32" (2.4mm) tho.Your machine is good enough to run 6011....
Reply:What purpose does the weldaments serve?It won't be pretty or watertight.You got a good fit?
Reply:Thanks for the pointers. I haven't yet needed to weld watertight stuff.The main thing I want to do is mitred corner joints of very thin sheet steel, and maybe plug welds if I improve my technique enough. The fit is good, and I can bend or overlap it if it needs to be better. Do thin rods need better fitup than thick ones? As for strength, if I have good fusion, even a tack weld will be strong enough. I'm also doing hobby work--anything made from 4mm steel rods, 2-3mm angle irons, 2mm steel strips. I haven't made much besides a welding cart and a pair of saw horses, but I also need to make fixturing tools like spacers. But the corner joins is the reason I need to buy a massive quantity of 1.6mm rods.
Reply:Well If I just have to use thin sticks then give me 5/64" diameter 6013 (5/64" = 2mm) or 1/16" diameter 7014 (1/16" = 1.6 mm) .I despise all 1/16" diameter stick rods but the ease of 7014 makes 1/16" diameter at least borderline tolerable.  Actually do not mind some of the 5/64" 6013 as they just big enough and are usually shorter than standard length rods so as to not flex all over the place.1/16" diameter 6011 does not sound like much fun to me at all.  6011 is not a contact rod and requires a rod gap be maintained.  6013 and 7014 can be in contact with the work.  With 6011 you typically try to maintain a 1/2 of whatever your rod diameter is for the arc gap.  Trying to maintain a 1/32" gap with a flimsy 1/16" diameter rod that is flexing everywhere like  noodle does not sound like fun to me.  I do wish they made 6011 in 5/64" but I have never seen it.buy small package and try it though see what happens...report back your results....
Reply:The thickness of your rods is based squarely in the thickness of your base metal. Too thin a rod and you won't bring in enough power to properly melt the base metal and achieve a good quality weld. Too thick, too much power is needed to melt the rod and you get burn-through in you base.Balance is necessary when doing any welding. MIG requires the wire speed to match the power level needed to melt the base.So cheeping-out because you can get them will leave you frustrated at every turn. Keep the proper supplies on hand or buy as you need them and you will be much more satisfied with you skills!Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:Thank you both. It's good to hear from people that have actually used these rods. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in indecision again. It sounds like I can't use 1/16" for all my projects, and I may even have trouble using it for my main project, due to difficulty. I wish I could buy a sample pack, but nobody will sell me less than 22 lbs.
Reply:Double check with your LWS. Mine keeps open stock on the real common rods and has 5 lb packs on most of the popular stuff.Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:You'll have no problem welding stuff up to 3mm (1/8") with a 1.6mm rod (1/16"). The problem with stick welding is the thin stuff. 0.7mm is very thin. I'd say too thin for stick. 1.5mm sheet metal is okay but thinner than that and it's getting really, really tricky. To do 1mm you need to weld downhill, using backing plates or other tricks like that. Mig or tig is what you need for that.I haven't tried 1.6mm 6011 so can't commment on that, only 1.6mm 7018 and 2mm 6013, 7014 and 7018 and stainless rods.BTW, you should really be able to find smaller than 22 lbs packs. I buy 5 lbs packs all the time. Put your location in your profile and maybe someone close to you can help you out.Last edited by Pete.S.; 09-08-2014 at 12:41 PM.
Reply:I'd be super impressed if you could weld 0.7mm with stick.1.6mm rods suck. I used to cut them in half because otherwise they're too hard to control. Even a surgeon would struggle.You'll be hard pressed to bridge any gaps because they don't lay down much material, so fit up needs to be good.They consume fast, faster than 2.0mm and much faster than larger sizes so you need to be on the ball with the arc length.Give me 2.0mm or 2.5mm rods any day.If you really are doing < 1.5mm material, look to another weld process.If you are really keen on getting some, you should be able to get Gemini 12 and Gemini 13 brand in 1.6mm size (and larger). Geminis are actually nice rods. I think they're made in Thailand so surely they are available in HK.It's true you can get pretty, small, delicate welds with 1.6mm rods. But you really need to be sharp. Lots can go wrong in thin material with thin rods.