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This is how the job got left to me by a contractor and his team. I know there are some variances in the height of the vertical columns up to 2" fr shortest to tallestLOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN SIZE/ depth of hole!All I'm looking for is some people that have some experience with this type of job tools to make the job easier maybe designs are blueprints from a previous ones and before everybody starts naming like $4000 take welders I have a meg welder and an arc welder the 260 arc welder is a cheap one from Harbor freight and the Eastwood 135 MIG Welder is So without stating the obvious of get better welders please give me useful advice I got to work with what I got Attached Images
Reply:If the posts cant be pounded in further to even them out, get a "'ol joint jigger" and hole saw to even out the tops. By the way, how did you end up with this job, if you weren't advertising as a business?
Reply:I'd run a line down the length of the tops of the posts to verify if they are in plain or not. the overall length of the posts may vary over the distance of the run to account for irregularities in the ground. Their is definitely a difference in the height of the posts but the tops may not be so far out of whack as you think.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Like all construction jobs, get a mason line (nylon string) and first check as Thor said. See if the posts are in line left to right, if they are a uniform height, and if they are plumb (second from top looks out of plumb). Until you verify and fix those you don't have much of a chance.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:the original design may have called for the rail to flatten out at the top. if the ground level stays pretty constant, you could always bend the top rail a little for the last joint closest to the wall.(everything looks pretty straight up until that point)Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Just know that you are not licensed, bonded, or insured. Fine for contracting without a license in Arizona is in the thousands. You ay be able to get decent power at the meter box, looks like an outlet right there. Saw the tops even, cope them, weld in the top rail, weld on a return at the start, and a wall bracket at the end., keep a consistent height from the ground. Weld in two rail, the bottom 4" high to be ADA compliant.
Reply:2" OD I would just use a 2" hole saw to flush- up the vertical posts? If calls for? In regards to the question how did I get the welding gig, I am already a manager at this DR. Office and they had seen some of my Hobby Work
Reply:Really to be honest I don't know how it will turn out but, I do know that the information and expertise is out and about in the world-wide web
Reply:You don't give a close up of the pipe tops ,but looks like they have those slide on railing fittings on them . if they do just get the rest to complete the job with out welding .
Reply:That was duck tape on there before these picsSo I think that I may want to go and clean them up just a hair and the last one wasn't even done but I'm going to get someone to help me lay the bar across the vertical posts and just see how it lines up I will take a picture and post.
Reply:Ask your lws if they have coping guides for 2" OD tubing. That would at least get you a guide line to cope with.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Originally Posted by commonsenseThat was duck tape on there before these picsSo I think that I may want to go and clean them up just a hair and the last one wasn't even done but I'm going to get someone to help me lay the bar across the vertical posts and just see how it lines up I will take a picture and post.
Reply:You can also just chalk a line, across all of them to set a nice height that is parallel to the surface and yet hits all the pipes. You can also instead of that notching device I posted a link to, just use a nice angle grinder and shape them by eye. To some people that sounds like madness to others it is just what you do. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Here is another notching tool from EastWood http://www.eastwood.com/pipe-notcher...nd-tubing.htmlThis one requires you buy an adapter for larger hole saws. The first one does not. But if you use this device only once a year and you lose the adapter you can order just the adapter from Eastwood.They have some great shipping deals and discounts that often make them a wise choice. Sincerely, William McCormickLast edited by William McCormick; 10-24-2014 at 06:57 PM.Reason: Added comment about the Eastwood product
Reply:I like a 36 grit flap disk for coping. www.metalgeek.com has printable coping prints. Notchers are nice but hole saw ones are to slow for me. You will be surprised with a little practice how fast and accurately you can cope with a grinder.
Reply:I imagine that the asphalt just sort of rolls down towards the driven are instead of a precise slope. If they measured from the top of the asphalt to the top of the posts they would have ended up with the same effect then didn't know how to deal with it."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Measure 4 ft at your first post. And 4 ft at your last post. Tie your string off on the first and last post at the 4 ft mark. Pull it tight. Cut where you need to and weld your top rail up.
Reply:Originally Posted by sbchp355I like a 36 grit flap disk for coping. www.metalgeek.com has printable coping prints. Notchers are nice but hole saw ones are to slow for me. You will be surprised with a little practice how fast and accurately you can cope with a grinder.
Reply:Yeah I have the Milwaukee magnumn
Reply:Yeah so I'm going tm and see how it goes, so from what I gather some people cut the top bar in pieces and some leave it as one long horizontal bar I guess it just depends on the situatation , what about the second lower pipe do yall cut a notch or get a bracket or what
Reply:For grinding whether the pipe is straight or angled. I put a half inch mark down from the end of the pipe, on each side of the pipe, that is my notch depth, I grind the thickness of the wheel down 1/2" just a straight slit maybe 1/4" wide. Then I just start from the side of the pipe that will not get ground and grind off that little tiny bit of metal in a slightly arced shape, between the side, and my 1/2" deep notch. I do that four times and I am done. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:That would be awesome to see a how to video McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by commonsenseYeah so I'm going tm and see how it goes, so from what I gather some people cut the top bar in pieces and some leave it as one long horizontal bar I guess it just depends on the situatation , what about the second lower pipe do yall cut a notch or get a bracket or what
Reply:If you have an oxygen and acetylene torch you can take the long top rail before you weld it, and heat the ends, and just shrink them into a round end. Then just weld the little hole shut. You slowly roll the pipe and beat the end evenly. You have to stop and reheat occasionally. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormickWhat speed are you turning the hole saw? I use a large Milwaukee two speed drill/hammer in drill mode, to turn the hole saw at high speed or low speed depending on stainless, steel or aluminum. Maybe I will make a movie of it. It takes maybe 30 seconds. If I do not have that, I use an angle grinder and a grinding wheel. That also does it in about 45 seconds. Sincerely, William McCormickOriginally Posted by sbchp355I always used my drill press at around 300 rpms. However my press is not a metal working press and lacks some ***. I guess I've just been doing it by hand for so long I never gave much thought to using a high torque handheld unit. Mainly cause I don't own one and haven't had much reason to buy one. You might have just done that for me. Any model suggestions? Also the notcher was I believe to be a cheaper one. Any suggestions on one of those also. Just intrigued cause I have some higher end interior railings coming up and while I can get a pretty tight fit up with a flap disk more precision might not be the worst thing.
Reply:It really depends on if you want a corded one or not if you want really high torque you're going to have to get an electric drill I have the Milwaukee Magnum
Reply:Here is a video of me using the oldest most worn jig I could find, and using my Milwaukee 12volt fuel hammer/Drill just for fun. I do get fine tooth carbon steel hole saws though. They work the best on steel and stainless. Both of those notches are perfect and ready to weld. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Neat set up
Reply:This was a still pick of the pipe notch fit done with the jig. All and all it goes fast and it is really easy once you practice a couple times.The Jig has a really long bronze bushing that does a really great job of keep the hole saw straight. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Your the man William, I appreciate the promptness with your replies! Your a man of your craft and a wealth of knowledge. Thank you!I will document the progress of the project, when I arrive on site tm. I am going shopping for materials and tools in a few hrs.
Reply:Cool, that is what it is all about. You are the man for creating the fun, and having the balls to ask and talk about it, thanks for letting me have some fun. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:When I work alone, I always try to bring some "C" clamps, Vise-Grips, maybe pipe clamps, or wooden clamps. It is amazing what you can do with clamps. A little "C" clamp, the true mini "C" shaped clamps can hold a string to the end of a pipe, or a board to a pipe. They are great. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerJust know that you are not licensed, bonded, or insured. Fine for contracting without a license in Arizona is in the thousands. You ay be able to get decent power at the meter box, looks like an outlet right there. Saw the tops even, cope them, weld in the top rail, weld on a return at the start, and a wall bracket at the end., keep a consistent height from the ground. Weld in two rail, the bottom 4" high to be ADA compliant.
Reply:It is true if it were a handicap rail it would need a rail 4" off the ground, and would probably require one in the middle as well protruding out from top rail. These are handicap rails I have made in the past. Both approved by the town, one set for the town. I would be the first to say if you are in a wheel chair and weak, you might as well get up and walk rather then try to go up those ramps. The truth is there just is not enough room to make everything accessible. So you do what you can. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:If he is going to put a return as most handicap rails require, then he will need some cut off wheels, to miter the pipe. Unless he can bend the pipe with a large electricians bender, a hickey style bender. If he has to splice the pipe he should get a length of 1" pipe to put inside at the joints. It makes it sweet to weld the joints. I used to put three little titts bumps on the ends of the one inch pipe and two more sets of three bumps two inches from the center or the joint. And then knock in the one inch pipe that is now a tight fit because of the titts. I would then tack around the inside pipe to the outer pipe. And then knock on the other pipe being joined. It makes it nice to weld. It is also a lot for someone doing it for the first time to remember. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:If he goes to the wall he will need an escutcheon to cover his mounting, or a flange with holes to mount the rail to the wall. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:After years of doing it, I found that going to the building is always a problem. We would have problems with building mounts one out of two times. I do not think we ever got three solid anchors on one flange ever. On stucco you crack the stucco, some block has stucco or a scratch coat on it. We would always try to put three 1/4" diameter by 1 1 1/4" long Zamack hammer drive or hammer set pins to hold the round pipe flange to the block, sometimes it was great, other times it did nothing. Or the block exploded into dust and the pin held nothing. On block you really need double expansion or a toggle bolt, but that is crazy. Sometimes you only have a cracked block to mount to, then you are a mason for a couple of hours. The Zamack hammer drives are easy, that is why we used them, you just drill a quarter inch hole right through the metal flange and right into the building, pop in a Zamack hammer drive pin and your done. If the block is not some baked ceramic, or old and deteriorated piece of garbage. On aluminum or vinyl siding there is insulation between you and anything solid so you distort the siding and it holds nothing. On wooden shakes you are so far from anything solid you might as well just put on a phony escutcheon and go home. Today you either have rotting tongue and grove, or rotting 1/2" plywood behind the siding. Most homes are 50 to 100 years old. So in short when we design the rails, we used to put in an extra vertical, right at the building and bring the rail 1" short of the building. Less headaches for sure. I cannot tell you of the drama at the end of the day trying to tie into buildings and structures. It was like some repeating nightmare. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormickAfter years of doing it, I found that going to the building is always a problem. We would have problems with building mounts one out of two times. I do not think we ever got three solid anchors on one flange ever. On stucco you crack the stucco, some block has stucco or a scratch coat on it. We would always try to put three 1/4" diameter by 1 1 1/4" long Zamack hammer drive or hammer set pins to hold the round pipe flange to the block, sometimes it was great, other times it did nothing. Or the block exploded into dust and the pin held nothing. On block you really need double expansion or a toggle bolt, but that is crazy. Sometimes you only have a cracked block to mount to, then you are a mason for a couple of hours. The Zamack hammer drives are easy, that is why we used them, you just drill a quarter inch hole right through the metal flange and right into the building, pop in a Zamack hammer drive pin and your done. If the block is not some baked ceramic, or old and deteriorated piece of garbage. On aluminum or vinyl siding there is insulation between you and anything solid so you distort the siding and it holds nothing. On wooden shakes you are so far from anything solid you might as well just put on a phony escutcheon and go home. Today you either have rotting tongue and grove, or rotting 1/2" plywood behind the siding. Most homes are 50 to 100 years old. So in short when we design the rails, we used to put in an extra vertical, right at the building and bring the rail 1" short of the building. Less headaches for sure. I cannot tell you of the drama at the end of the day trying to tie into buildings and structures. It was like some repeating nightmare. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:I agree with William - I've only done a few, but I didn't tie into the building either.The Holiday Inn I did one for asked why not, I showed them the bolts that were in the old one didn't hit one piece of wood or metal - basically just for show.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:I am missing something here. "asked by boss at doctors office". This "boss" works for the doctor? Why did the original fabricators bail? The answer to that question may make you want to bail. There are a lot of reasons why somebody starts a job and does not finish it. Damn few that would want me to take it over. Did the original fabricator have a contract? Can you draw up a contract? Do you have insurance? Is the doctor a real cheap faker who wants it done for nothing?
Reply:You know it is not the right style mount when the owner that saw you having a heck of a time, comes out and does a wild monkey on the freshly set not cured, rail, and little crumbs come out from behind the flange, and he yells in delight "its no good". He is buried in my backyard too. Ha-ha. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:A cone/plug stone in an angle grinder would also work for making the copes and/or cleaning them up. I have a couple Pipe Masters that I used when building some complex roll cages. I don't know how to post a link but they are a plastic tube about 2" long that fits over the pipe and has a bunch of small sliding fingers around it you adjust to trace the proper cope on the pipe. They will work for any angle you need whether fitting to pipe, a flat surface or a junction of multiple pieces. They sure saved me a lot of time and guess work.
Reply:You have an Eastwood mig and a HF arc welder. You don't have experience with this. You work there. If something goes wrong with the railing or you make it a bigger job for the next guy, you will be IT forever. I'd run away as fast as you can. Bow out, stating that you don't have the experience and someone getting hurt from a malfunction will potentially make you and your boss liable legally.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:He is probably halfway done already. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:It's been pushed to tm due to my weather, but when I say that I don't have experience I mean I have I have never welded for a living, but I have completed carts with welds that look like those: So I have faith, I have just thought myself through learning as much as I can from professional positive enthusiastic people that have confidence and tell people to go out there and give it a try!
Reply:The reason welds on most pipe rails is a bit rough and can easily be duplicated, is time and money. Most of the little shops have equipment like yours. whatever gets her done. The fifty year old shops the father son shop are hard to beat they need work their guys make and install rails like we shave. They have good equipment just the basics to build rails. The only jobs you can take from them are big jobs. They are not setup to camp out at a job site or work around other contractors. Little changes make them crazy. They will never take a job half started. Unless they get big bucks upfront. They do standard stuff standardly, I often turn over standard wrought iron rails to them. Even though I used to do that. We would make up five small front stoop hand rails by 11:00 am, pick up lunch and install all five rails before 5:00 pm. The boss would set them up all within 15 minutes of each other. He would sell them for about $300 average price.We used to stick weld them with 70-14 file/grind them. But outside you could use flux core and MIG them. Your welds look plenty hot for a handrail. You should see what gets approved. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Yeah I'm going to MIG weld them, I do have an arc welder but I'm def more confident in my MIG welding skills. now that I got some equipment here at the outlets are pretty far away among other problems what do you think about me cutting the polls in half transporting them to my house and fabricating them there will that be a huge pain in the butt?
Reply:How much harder do you think that would make the job?
Reply:A lot of variables about taking premade stuff to the job. It's done all the time, but you need to plan in advance well, and make sure you know all the site conditions to make it work well.The holes in the ground will play a big part of whether this is easy or hard to accomplish. If the hole are tight, you won't have much play when you go to reset the posts. being out just a tiny bit too much then can become a major hassle. Your top measurement might be dead on, but if the post pulled, you might not get things lined up where you want them to go. Also is your vehicle large enough to handle premade sections?Fabbing on site removes some of these issues and introduces others, like whether you can get power close enough to the work.I've made a lot of prefab stuff and transported it to the job. In some cases it simplifies the work. In others it probably didn't make a huge difference. In a few others it made things really tough, so it's hard to give you a solid answer..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:19:11