First welder - buy used Century 85amp or buy new Lincoln Weld Pack HD

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Choosing between the following:http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-E...88-1/100031840andhttp://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...644734639.htmlAs you can tell, I am starting cheap. I like the Lincoln because it has a warranty (only one year on this model) but frankly it will probably take me two years to break it. Plus, I figure I can resell it for a small loss when I decide to upgrade.I like the Century because it is set up for gas and appears to include the regulator and gauges.What am I going to weld? I don't really know - the floor pan in an 85 Dodge w350, some livestock tanks, a coat rack, a gate, that sort of stuff.Thanks for the advice, I know this is an impossible question but maybe someone will have special insight and save the day!
Reply:Try again, I wouldn't want either clogging up my shop.I like how the century is listed as "dual purpose", it's a door stop and a paperweight. I needed to replace my old Weld pak 100 as soon as I got to 1/8" steel, not really worth the time spent on itLast edited by Brazin; 08-30-2014 at 11:07 PM.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:Small machines like that are very limiting. even the best 140 amp 110v machines top out at 1/8" under real world conditions despite what the manufacturers might like you to believe by reading their literature. 85-90 amps is even more limiting. In reality both are sheet metal machines, fine for fixing auto body stuff using .023 wire and gas, but not the best choice for a sturdy gate. It will "glue" the gate together, but the joints won't really be welded well.If your only choice is 110v power, go with the most you can get. Try and get a 130-140 amp machine, so you have the most power available as possible. A better choice would be to jump up to a 220v powered unit. These will still do sheet metal, but usually do 1/4" or more, depending on the machine. On stuff like 1/8", there's a huge difference between the two, even if both will weld 1/8". The small mig has a very short duty cycle when maxed out like that. On the other hand, the 220v mig will just keep on going. That difference easily shows up in the welds if you know what you are doing. The 110/220v migs give you the best of both. On 110v power you are still limited to 1/8", but you can be portable. On 220v power you are usually tied to the shop, but with units like Hobarts HH 210 MVP or Millers MM211, you can weld up to 3/8" when on 220v power. Down side is that they cost quite a bit, but they are usually cheaper than upgrading and buying 2 machines.On a cheap budget, a 220v transformer stick machine is the cheapest way to get into this and still have a decent range of output to work with. Down side is that material below 1/8" is really tough to do..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yes, DSW is right. Save and buy a larger 120/230 volt. You'll be money a head , greater duty cycle, and thicker material.
Reply:Like everyone else said.. If you can afford it, get a bigger welder. For about another $350you can buy a Hobart 190 gas mig.  Very nice machine to learn with and you won't " outgrow it " plus it's easy to get parts! Now if you can't swing it and you've got to get a small 110 welder. I would buy new... A Hobart 140 mig runs $425 on ebay w/ 5 year warranty. Same price as the Lincoln 125. You will definitely be left wanting more power with an 85 amp welderSorry we're being downers but you will definitely thank us if you buy a larger machine!  Happy hunting!Real welders know how to penetrate!(Equipment)Whatever can be used to beat my opponent into submission!
Reply:There are lincoln buzz boxes on craigslist, 100$-300$ you can't go wrong with that. Wiring a 220v outlet isn't that hard,my first welder I bought was a 115v POS mig- flux core. Welding will be harder to learn with an under powered, under performing machine. Save up your dough and get something you can grow into.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:If I had to have a 140 amp 120 volt welder, I'd consider:TWECO 141i $599.  http://store.cyberweld.com/twfa14miw...FQQQ7AodA3UA2QHobart 140 $499. delivered:  http://www.ruralking.com/hobart-hand...mp-500559.htmlYou can sometimes get factory refurbished Hobarts for a reasonable price.  Availability varies.  http://www.hobartweldshop.com/servlet/StoreFrontThe 240 volt Hobart 190 runs about $650. and is a good unit. The Lincoln 140s and 180 are priced about the same as the Hobarts."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Have you considered a used welder? I just saw a clean Lincoln Pro Mig 175 welder with a cart, a good-sized CO2 bottle, regulator and three small spools of wire on Craigslist - $475."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:That Lincoln is the same one I bought about a year ago for $250 shipped. It is great, but that is speaking from where I came from. Friend sold me an old HF mig converted stick...oh my. Then a 220v that I couldn't weld sheet metal with, burn through anything if not set right. I need to replace that one. These guys are right, in my opinion, more amps, MIG and quality machine! Century is old Wal-Marts stuff...I would avoid. I hate buying stuff like this used as I don't know how to work on it if it breaks.Last edited by bondobridge; 08-31-2014 at 10:18 AM.
Reply:I hate all of you.I'm at a loss for what to do. This house is 100 years old. I've got 220 going to the stove but that's it. I'll need to get an electrician over here to talk to me about adding another 220 to my panel.  That means digging up the yard to lay the line to the garage. Then again, the panel looks pretty packed; there might not even be room.If I can get 220 power I'll take the advice and hold off for for one of the $500 - $600 models you all have mentioned. If I can't make 220 power happen am I just screwed in the welding department?What's a guy gotta do to stick to pieces of metal together? I have the helmet and the gloves!
Reply:Originally Posted by jmkeuningI hate all of you.I'm at a loss for what to do. This house is 100 years old. I've got 220 going to the stove but that's it. I'll need to get an electrician over here to talk to me about adding another 220 to my panel.  That means digging up the yard to lay the line to the garage. Then again, the panel looks pretty packed; there might not even be room.If I can get 220 power I'll take the advice and hold off for for one of the $500 - $600 models you all have mentioned. If I can't make 220 power happen am I just screwed in the welding department?What's a guy gotta do to stick to pieces of metal together? I have the helmet and the gloves!
Reply:If you have a 220v stove, chances are you also have a 220v dryer. That would be another option, though the dryer is 30 amps vs a stoves 50 amps. I welded a lot in rental houses using a 220v extension cord plugged into either the range outlet or dryer outlet, depending on where I was living. 50 to 100' of extension cord is certainly doable. On the 30 amp dryer outlet I couldn't run my 220v stick machine at full power without tripping the breaker, but I could run 3/32" rods no problem and that covered 95% of what I needed to do.As mentioned 220v isn't impossible to run. A good electrician can get you hooked up no problem. If you are that full anyways, it might pay to upgrade at the same time. I have to run a 220v line out to a family members shed that they want to use for an art studio. That way we can put a small sub panel out there and they will have plenty of power for space heaters as well as lights and tools. The other day I noticed their main panel is only 60 amps. So when the electrician comes to hook up the wiring, he's going to swap out the main panel for either a 100 or 200 amp panel, depending what he finds as far as the meter socket is set up for. I could do all the wiring myself, but the neighbor is a registered electrician and we trade work, so he's going to do the actual hook up after I trench for the conduit for both my place and his.When all else fails, there's always engine driven welders, or generators. Problem is you need a pretty good size genny to power even small 220v mig machines. You need a monster genny to power tranny type stick welders..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:We are all here to help you. Spending your money is only a small part of it. All are really trying to save you money.Take pictures of the panel and we can help. It may not be bad and could be something as easy as a extension cord. Yes , more dollars but worth it.
Reply:I'm gonna open the panel and post some pics. If you don't hear from me tonight it's because I got vaporized.
Reply:Originally Posted by jmkeuningI'm gonna open the panel and post some pics. If you don't hear from me tonight it's because I got vaporized.
Reply:I would like to let this photo speak for itself because I have no idea what it means.I will add: Range is bottom left. Central AC is bottom rights. (Dryer is gas)This house is 100 years old. This panel was added before we bought it a few years ago but we (our contractor) did a bunch of electrical work like the range and AC.I'll show ya this one too:And thanks everyone, I feel better already!
Reply:I believe they make " half sized" breakers for that panel. If so, you can condense several of those 110v breakers down so 2 breakers share the same spot in the panel and open up some space. At worst an electrician can pull out a few circuits and add a sub panel and then install the removed circuits in the new panel. The house I was working in today has a sub panel in the utility room that I believe was added when they upgraded to central air and an electric hot water heater vs the old oil fired furnace/ hot water boiler combo..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Woo wee that's one messy panel, I see only one open spot. The extension cord might be your cheapest route. Unless there is something that can be dropped, to gain a spot in the panel. Not sure if you can piggyback a sub panel off the main or not. I'm not an electrician, just a professional jerry rigger. Good luck man.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:deleted commentLast edited by bondobridge; 08-31-2014 at 09:43 PM.
Reply:If I understand correctly, I can maybe move 18 and 20 and use those slots for a 220?Number 12, A"base lites," is literally four light bulbs. Number 11, with the kitchen and dining room lights is 26 light bulbs (two fixtures, one with ten bulbs the other with 16) plus the disposal apparently.And what about this stick welder: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...642799194.html
Reply:You may need to move a few more things  if you go with 1/2 breakers. To open up 2 slots, you need to condense 4 existing breakers down to 2. If you want to "combine" items from 2 breakers into one, say breaker A has only 4 lights and Breaker B has 6 lights and you want to put all of them on the same breaker, you'll need to pigtail the wires together under a wire nut and run a single wire to the new breaker. I'm pretty sure code will not allow 2 wires under on screw in the breaker. One of the Sparkies can tell you more on that. I've had to split off wires that were doubled for customers when they went to sell a house, but each time there was room in the panel to simply add a breaker as needed.Price is good. Machine looks like it's in decent condition. It's AC only, but it will get you started no problem. AT that price when later you want to upgrade to an AC/DC machine, you can resell it and get every penny back, if not more so. I regularly see those in my area for $50-150. Cleaned up nice and possibly repainted, I could see the one in that add going for $150 if you wanted to resell it later.The only "down side" to those Lincolns are that they are tapped machines. That limits you a bit vs say a Miller or Hobart that is infinitely adjustable. For the price though You can't go wrong and the fixed taps are usually right where most people want to set the machine anyways, so it's not as big a deal as you might think..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Can you tell me about this one, it's one that I had decided against but now that I'm talking to some pros I figure I'll ask for an up or down vote:http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...630255938.html
Reply:I believe that unit is sold by Victor. Not as common for electric welders, but you'd have better luck with them vs some cheap no name import. Unit looks pretty clean. Most likely as with most small migs it will max out at 1/8" under real world conditions, though I've never used one myself. Most 130 amp class migs that are reasonably decent max out roughly the same, so that's most likely a safe bet.A quick google search shows the current 110v 130 amp equivalent from them running about $620 with cart and helmet. The helmet looks like an auto dark, so subtract maybe $100 or so. That would put the used price about where that one is listed.Given a choice, I'd be happier with a Hobart or Miller that I've had more experience with. That said, I'd certainly take that over a unit from Harbor freight or one of the flux core only machines. Personally I'm luke warm on the unit. The price isn't "outstanding" in my opinion. I'd prefer a unit I'm more familiar with. Also the fact it's 110v powered is influencing me quite a bit. I just don't feel they are the right machine for most people to start with, with a few special exceptions, no matter what the brand..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:$50 for the tombstone sounds perfect! You could re-sell it for a profit tomorrow, or in 20 years.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:I have two runs of 12/3 wire buried to the detached garage. This was done when we wired the garage because we wanted to be able to control a garage light from a switch in the house. Assuming I can work in a sub-panel, are these two 12/3 wires of any use to me? Like can I run a bunch of power to the garage on the the two 12/3 wires and then put another circuit panel in the garage to split of the power? This saves me drilling holes in the house, digging ditches, and buying wire.Maybe this question needs its own thread? Let me know and I will just start a new one.On other news, I am hopefully going to buy the Lincoln AC225 on Wednesday morning. I would go tomorrow but that might mean that my child gets to school late on his first day. His mom does not like that idea. Some people's priorities right? I mean, how many first days of school are there? 12 right? And how many $50 Lincoln welders are there? Fewer than 12 that's for sure. But whatever, if I miss out on this one there are other newer AC225s on Craigslist for under $180.Originally Posted by jmkeuningI hate all of you.What's a guy gotta do to stick to pieces of metal together? I have the helmet and the gloves!
Reply:It depends on the length of the run, but under 100' should give you both sides of a 40A 230v connection. More than enough for inverters, not enough for a huge tank of a transformer.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:In my opinion you don't need a 220 welder for what you describe that you plan to use it for. I've been in the Autobody trade for over 35 years and have welded for about the same. A GOOD 110 volt mig should work fine. A good used Lincoln, Hobart or Miller should be able to be found for around $300. Hell several years ago I welded a trailer together that went from California to Alaska and back with a cheap Costco 110 volt mig and it held together great. You can weld more than 1/8 with a 110 volt welder if you prep it correctly and maybe you will need to make 2 passes. I run a Hobart 120 amp mig for restoration work, fabrication work and frame repair. It works great. You just need to know when you are at the limitations of YOU and the machine. My 2 cents!
Reply:If I were you I would jump all over this http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/an...636026297.html.  Portable and 200 amps.  If you can't afford to run 220 into the garage I would go with a 115v 140 amp welder like a hobart handler and run flux core for the thicker stuff.  Everyone is going to tell you to go big and its good advice but sometimes money or the power isn't available.
Reply:+1 on a nice 120v unit. It sounds like you have modest needs and the 85a Century might be OK, but there's a huge difference between a broken, crappy unit and a 140a with decent adjustment functions. A 20a breaker would work nicely on your 12/3, and you could run a waffle iron on the other one.... Mmmmm waffles.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A
Reply:I bought a Miller Weld Pack 100 amp MIG and had a hard time getting decent welds. I eventually sold it and got  a Hobart Handler 140. What a difference! I can weld again!The fact that you can pick up a welder and use it where there is a 110 outlet is real handy.I use mine often on a 110 volt 15 amp circuit with no problem. I bought both used. $115 for the Miller and $200 for the HH140.
Reply:Originally Posted by pirateI bought a Miller Weld Pack 100 amp MIG and had a hard time getting decent welds. I eventually sold it and got  a Hobart Handler 140. What a difference! I can weld again!The fact that you can pick up a welder and use it where there is a 110 outlet is real handy.I use mine often on a 110 volt 15 amp circuit with no problem. I bought both used. $115 for the Miller and $200 for the HH140.
Reply:The first welder I used and learned on was a Lincoln tombstone AC welder that ran on 220. A fine welder but the skill level for it's usage is much greater than on a good mig welder. I have welded some with DC stick. The skill level to use AC or DC stick is much higher than with mig welding. It is much harder to have good welds with a stick welder, it is a frustrating process without much practice as compared to mig welding.         It is really nice to have a 220 mig welder. That is my first choice if able to do so. If not there is nothing wrong with a 120volt machine for home usage. Most welding is 1/8 inch and lower for at home use in my personal experience. To weld thicker metal than 1/8 inch takes some tricks. One is to bevel the metal, the other is multiple passes, like a pass on each side, and leaving a gap in the material being welded, or many passes on the same side. For instance three passes, one in the middle and two beside the middle pass. With many passes you can weld at least 1/4" steel and maybe somewhat thicker metal with the largest 120 mig welders.  Another trick it to preheat the metal before welding, this helps on the thicker stuff. You can make good strong welds with a 120 mig single pass up to 1/8". Look at some of the welding projects you actually plan to do, are any thicker than 1/8" or even 1/4" for that matter. Look up on the internet the Hobart factory direct refurbished welders page, there are great deals on refurbished hobarts there. Save your money and buy the one you want when it comes up. The shipping cost is really low with these welders, be patient I have seen many models come up in time (a month or two wait may be needed with some models).I suggest looking at the hobart handler 140. You must have a 20 amp breaker to run it. As a practical matter it will do most of what you need in welding. It is a far superior way to weld thinner metal over AC stick for the beginner welder.  No matter what buy a brand named welder, a Hobart, Lincoln or Miller, other wise your gambling and usually in the welder department you come up a loser unless you get one of the big three. If you get any welder other than the big three, do a LOT of research and make sure the reviews are good and parts are available. The biggest difference that I notice with welding with 120V verses 220V mig is that since the voltage is half with the 120V machine it is harder to get a good ground. That the driving voltage is half means it seems harder to get a good ground. What that means in practicality a least in my experience is that you try to get the ground clamp close to your work and it takes more effort to get a good ground (dirty, rusty, painted metal etc). With a good ground the 120V machine does a fine job in welding for it's range, that is pretty and strong welds. DanLast edited by DWO; 09-09-2014 at 01:07 AM.
Reply:If on a tight budget and wanting a new 120mig welder. Here is a option. http://www.hobartweldshop.com/servle...Handler/DetailLast edited by DWO; 09-09-2014 at 12:43 PM.