Stubby gas lens kit from HTP #17, 3/32"

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A few observations and maybe we can compare notes on a few things.I bought this little kit from USAWELD. It is just a single kit for a standard #17 size torch sized for 3/32" tungsten use. Part # SR17STGLC-3321/2 length back cap, short collet body/gas lens diffuser, white insulator, and collet, #8 cupSome initial thoughts.1.)The insulator does not interface with the cup in any precise way. In fact, it basically has the cup sitting on a very slightly elevated ridge on the insulator. Nothing to provide alignment and a good mate between the two. The cup has no special shape, just ends flat. (picture a piece of tube just chopped off) This would be fine but the small taper ridge on the insulator keeps it from sitting flush. 2.) The 3/32" tungsten has a fair bit of play as it exits the gas lens. I remember barely being able to get a painted end of the tungsten through at tech school due to the precise fit. I say this has a 3/32" over bore. (when you eyeball it from as the tungsten comes out of the front. You can rattle it around a wee bit.3.) The collet body does not really provide any taper to wedge the collet closed. It is pretty much bored out same width all the way down until the very bottom where you can see a very short/abrupt, champfer (This is where you see the 4 small ports for the gas to pass through.) Maybe normal? We'll see when I put it on the torch body later.I have yet to unbox the torch (sitting here) but this seems like I'm dealing with a cobbled together "kit". The response from USAweld was that they haven't heard of anyone having trouble with the fit-up of the cup to insulator, but different cups would provide better fit cause this was an Italian made cup. Ok? All the parts are stamped with the proper 3/32" size so it doesn't seem like it was assembled wrong, unless the gas lens was assembled with the wrong size pass-through.  I'm probably over-thinking this whole thing but you'd think tighter tolerances would be needed so no air gets sucked in. Like what if the insulator doesn't fit air tight on the torch body? I'm anticipating this giving me grief. This post is to find out if I'm nuts or if I have any legitimate concerns. Thanks.
Reply:Put it together and then check the fit. HTP won't steer you wrong. Those are CK parts, except for the cup I guess if it's Italian.Mike ZanconatoZanconato Custom Cycles @mzank on Instagram
Reply:Zank yes you are correct, copper parts stamped with CK logo and size. I am also a believer in HTP. I'm inexperienced as far as gas lenses. I didn't want to overly invest in a big kit that will end up collecting dust. So this little purchase, although a small investment, is a biggy as far as getting up and running.
Reply:I think you'll find that kit will cover most of your needs. A 3/32" tungsten is an excellent all around choice.Mike ZanconatoZanconato Custom Cycles @mzank on Instagram
Reply:I bought some gas lenses and cups from HTP when I ordered my CK17 torch and I noticed the same thing, the cup doesn't set down over the recessed edge of the insulator as the insulator is designed, and the cup doesn't have any CK markings on it so it's not quite the same fit as the CK cups I've seen on other's torches but it does seems to work fine (although I've only welded 2 hours with it and I've only been tig welding as a hobby for 1-2 years so far so may not notice the difference if it were pulling in a little air). I'm planning to pickup one of the CK lenses from the LWS when I swap out my bottle next week and hoping it fits better, the CK cups I've seen have a thinner wall than the cup I got from HTP, which is probably why the HTP cup doesn't set down over the rim of the insulator.Eliyah________________Hobart Handler 210Everlast PowerPro 205Miller ThunderboltVictor O/A
Reply:See if they will take back the parts you ordered, and buy this kit.  It is all CK.http://www.usaweld.com/Stubby-Gas-Le...r1711stglc.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by copeSee if they will take back the parts you ordered, and buy this kit.  It is all CK.http://www.usaweld.com/Stubby-Gas-Le...r1711stglc.htm
Reply:Well I got my torch together and tungsten tightens up as it should. Seems it will work as intended. Nice kit above, but more there than I need right now. Interesting I saw too, that a full tungsten is too long for a full back cap, but cut in half should work fine with the supplied medium cap. I made another observation and wondering how you guys assemble.....   If after I push on the insulator and screw the collet body all the way in before assembling the rest.. the O-ring doesn't have enough room to seat confidently into the torch body during final assembly. On the other hand, if I do not thread in the collet body all the way, the O-ring on the back cap can be seated in nice and secure. I think the culprit here is the collet hitting the back cap. Noticed the distance lost on the old insulator was about the distance the O-ring needed for the cap to thread on a bit more. Now in order to have a comfortably seated O-ring on the back cap (regardless of what length back cap used) I must not thread on the collet body all the way. So when you look into the cup you see about 3 threads left on the ceramic. Good or bad or no difference? I'd rather not see those and wonder if they introduce turbulence but I doubt it will make much of a difference. Win some lose some I guess. Putting this tig setup together was long time coming for me.. and I hate when things don't jive or go together as they should.
Reply:Can you post a picture? I use this kit everyday on my Weldcraft 150 (wp17) torch with no issues at all....screwed in complete, miller/weldcraft cups.
Reply:Lets see.  Parts: check.Tight fitting teflon gasket/insulator on torch head:  checkCollet body threaded all the way in: check.  Back cap about to be threaded in:  checkBack cap threaded in, with O-ring fully inside torch head to seal:  Check.#8 cup partially threaded on collet body to check for fit on taper part of the insultor:  checkcup sitting on insulator on flat surface to make sure that there will be a positive seal once threaded all the way on:  checkAll assembled, everything fit perfect:  CheckMake sure all photos show computer in background with the actual thread on Welding Web where pictures will be posted in:  check.    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:I ordered one just now. All the other ones I had seen were like 70-90 bucks(jody,and ebay). Wonder why this ones so cheap, had to jump on it. Can you buy individual collet bodies and gas lens whenever they wear out?Miller Maxstar 200 SDPiperliner #10 Gold
Reply:collets are available separately from many sources for these stubby kits.Should the collet body get crud'ed up with gunk, you can just remove the circular snap ring in the middle, pick out the old SS mesh, punch out your own mesh from a small sheet, replace, and good to go.  Unless you strip the threads, which would require complete replacement, lol. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Originally Posted by smilexelectricI ordered one just now. All the other ones I had seen were like 70-90 bucks(jody,and ebay). Wonder why this ones so cheap, had to jump on it. Can you buy individual collet bodies and gas lens whenever they wear out?
Reply:Hello. great pics Oscar showing your assembly. Thanks for the thread contribution. Here are some pics of my situation with a slightly more critical point of view. I'm getting a direct relationship between how far I can thread my collet body in and how far I can get my O-ring seated. When I thread my collect body all the way in.. balls tight, my O-ring is just barely coming in contact in the rear. In order to get my O-ring seated I have to leave the body out a few turns. This helps the thread showing situation in the cup also. One last thing...and I don't know how significant this is.. but my torch is a Trimline 210. specs out size-wise and accepts same parts as the standard 17. In the photos I have left the collet body out and so i think I have a seal here in this pic but it's close. When it's in tight the O-ring is completely showing. Attached ImagesLast edited by KennethD; 09-13-2014 at 05:31 PM.Reason: screwed up my photo
Reply:You need a different insulator. They sell them but fail to mention it.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:You're wayyyyy over thinking this.  The "poor fit-up" is not poor.  The insulator has a small lip with a tiny taper, as you can check for yourself.  This is what makes a perfect seal when you tighten the cup down.  This kit does not rely on having the cup seal against the flat part of the insulator for the seal, which is what I believe what you want.  The torch as a whole will [likely] not accept the torque required to compress the teflon taper to the point where it would let you get the cup flat to the insulator, even that tiny little lip on the insulator.  However, the torque that you can apply to the collet body is enough to create a perfect seal because the taper lets just a little bit slip up/wedge/whatever-you-wanna-call-it into the cup.  That is what taper is for.That O-ring is fine.  The problem is your torch.  With the collet body fully threaded-in, I cannot see the O-ring when I use the short back cap, but then again, I'm showing a cheap chinese 17 torch:Since yours is a Trimline, I suspect that everything was trimmed, including part of the rear of the torch head.  Only way I can explain it from this side of my monitor.  Mine is the HTP parts exactly like yours, except for the alumina cup.  I'm pretty sure this is the case.As for the "over sized hole", you just need an over-sized tungsten.  Come on, man!  There are more complicated things in life to worry about, lol.  So long as the collet tightens the tungsten properly when you adjust the collet body threaded-depth within the torch head, I guarantee you that the tungsten will NOT be wiggling around on you while you're TIG welding.    Last edited by Oscar; 09-13-2014 at 06:09 PM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Since precision is needed I can only guess you weld for the Aerospace field and everything needs to be precision.The complete stubby kit works for my weldcraft and harbor freight torch. Just ask HTP for a refund and make sure to send the photos to them.
Reply:You need the insulator spacer!!!!! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeYou need the insulator spacer!!!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeYou need the insulator spacer!!!!!
Reply:I don't have a stubby kit, but my regular gas lens uses the little extra spacer.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI don't have a stubby kit, but my regular gas lens uses the little extra spacer.
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarFor the 17 medium gas lens collet bodies, there is also another insulator that is 1pc and doesn't require both the stock insulator and the spacer.  Just depends where you get the kit from.
Reply:Oscar, in view #8 of your pics... I have a slightly different fit than yours. (different cups). I do understand the mechanics and what is supposed to happen. I torq'd it and the slight taper did eventually find it's way into the cup for a great seal. This was not the case on the first few tries, where I was seeing the taper more or less butting the cup, not "wedging" in.  I was not complaining specifically about the gap (I agree with you, that's the way it works), but more of the way the taper met the ID of the cup. Again all looks good now. I think my only issue (as others have pointed out) is my insulator might need to be replaced with a bit wider (longer) one. I've seen them around the web so I'll just have to track one down.
Reply:I'm with Mike here.  It does look like you need a thicker insulator.  As you know, that will push the lens further forward, allow the back cap to seat deeper and allow you to thread the cup onto the lens with more threads.  Something just looks off with your setup.What brand is your torch?Last edited by Drf255; 09-14-2014 at 05:22 AM.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 MagnumHere bud no spacer with the stubby. I get confused i have so much crap. The stubby is the bomb for the 17 users tho. The smaller you can make it the better, and its still a club.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:When I first received my kit the tungsten would not tighten in my weldcraft torch. I called HTP and found I have a short collet by mistake when they changed suppliers....it was only an issue on some of the newer miller torches, ck was fine. I'm thinking the shorter collets woyld allow your back cap to seat. Have you called HTP? I will say they were awesome and fast at getting me the new proper collet for my torch, excellent customer serviceLike welder Mike pictured above my torch features a backside insulator alsoAWS 17.1, D1.1 and ASME IX (GTAW)Miller Syncrowave 350LX, Maxstar 150sth, Maxstar 200DX and  Millermatic 252 w/ Spoolmatic 30aMiller buzz box with Lincolin TombstoneThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38
Reply:Rick t. sounds like a good solution, too. Thanks for the tip. Added: (I actually considered trimming my collet earlier on.)Last edited by KennethD; 09-15-2014 at 02:01 PM.Reason: Added info