If you were to open a welding shop which way would you go?

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Was having dinner with friends and we got talking about technology and changes in things these days. It got me thinking if someone was to open a shop today would you go cutting edge and set your self up with the latest tech gear? Or would you stick to the tried and true? For me i would lean towards the latest tech, I'm a young guy and have many years left in my working life I want to be up to date with the advances in tech and not left behind. I work in a machine shop and based on the specialised stuff I see being sent to specialised shops hours away and having to wait, I see a market for highly specialised welding services.
Reply:Yes, but no one is going to give their highly specialized welding business to a company that just opened up. They want to make sure it's done right, and are will to pay big bucks for it. Problem is, just like with all technology, the latest and greatest comes out, a couple years down the road, you can buy that technology for half the price it used to be. My advice for starting out is spend your money wisely. Buy good, used equipment and shop around for the best prices. Only buy a new machine if you have the work to pay for it, or if you are absolutely confident the machine will bring in enough work to pay for the machine relatively quickly. If you were to go out and get a multi-million dollar loan and buy all the fancy tools you could dream of, I think you would find yourself closing down shop in a few years, with a multi-million dollar debt.John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:I think it would be best to start out with the tried and true equipment first off, then add the newer high tech stuff later as you can justify getting it. Remember, the newest equipment on the market may not have all the bugs worked out yet and may not be as reliable as the things that have been around for awhile. You need to have tools that will work reliably to get the job done to get your customer base started.
Reply:what is the latest tech you are talking about? CNC robotic welders are kind of expensive. other than that, why customer would know or care if you used a 30 year old transformer or a 1 year old inverter?
Reply:Obviously, it depends on what type of shop you intend to run. If you're going for huge job runs, which is usually the case with state-of-the-art equipment, you will be in bidding wars with similar shops. Usually, that doesn't result in very large profits.If you're doing small lots, or onesey-twosey type jobs, you don't need state-of-the-art equipment.I agree with Econdron in post #2.Rich
Reply:Thanks for replying everybody. I must admit when I said latest tech I was not meaning automation. I was more thinking about modern advanced tig and mig systems (for example the miller dynasties or advanced European tigs like fronius. Also advanced pulsed mig systems). I should also add this is a purely hypothetical question. I'm deffinitly not in a position to start my own shop. Though I am buying up gear with the intention of doing side work and oneday open a shop.
Reply:Always best to start out with the bare minimum in machines and upgrade as you have the work. What I found was that I didnt like the "any weld, any time, any place" type of business and that I dont make good money welding anything but steel. So my business changed within the first couple years and I now do mostly residential, new construction iron contracting. I am trying to change it again to emphasize more furniture and interior details rather than big gates and doors. Had I bought all new specialty equipment, it would now be outdated and virtually unused.
Reply:No difference in weld quality or looks between a dynasty and a 30 year old transformer machine.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Originally Posted by William PayneThanks for replying everybody. I must admit when I said latest tech I was not meaning automation. I was more thinking about modern advanced tig and mig systems (for example the miller dynasties or advanced European tigs like fronius. Also advanced pulsed mig systems). I should also add this is a purely hypothetical question. I'm deffinitly not in a position to start my own shop. Though I am buying up gear with the intention of doing side work and oneday open a shop.
Reply:I'd go tried and true every day of the week, unless I had a big job lined up where the fancy bells & whistles of new equipment would make a big enough diffrence to pay for themselves in a relatively short time or something like that. Reliability and concistency is what will bring in a steady flow of money, spending twice(?) the money on newer equipment that will work slightly better on 5% of the work that comes through the door will probably never pay off for the small shop.Last edited by G-son; 05-08-2015 at 08:31 PM.
Reply:Its called the "bleeding edge" for a reason.
Reply:you'd be smart to go with whatever your business can support.    Fun thing about huge payments on new fancy equipment is if you cant make them they have no problems coming to pick the stuff up.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by Mick120You have to learn to walk, before you can run plus, it all depends on experience.I'm on my third (and last) business and, every time I started with the basics.As time went by, customer base and experience improved, I upgraded equipment......when I could afford it.Worked for me.
Reply:Yeah, no sense having a pulsed MIG machine if you don't have jobs that require a pulsed MIG machine.
Reply:To add to the topic here's another thought. Do you look for and pursue the work you want to do or do you focus on what comes to you?
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTNo difference in weld quality or looks between a dynasty and a 30 year old transformer machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1Baloney.I can definitely improve the finished weld quality when adjusting the parameters, especially on aluminum.  There are plenty of times where focusing the asserted tighter than is possible with 60 hz allows for a much lower HAZ, which can eliminate or drastically reduce distortion.  No question about it - no way I'd go back to a transformer.My suggestion though, make your own product, or specialize in a specific type of custom work.  If you are doing general Fab or repair work, you'll never have all of the right equipment, - you'll always need different stuff for the next job walks in. If you specialize, you'll need less equipment, yet will produce higher quality work due to familiarity, and will be more efficient.
Reply:Can you develop the necessary skills to keep the specialized work in house?  You should have the materials on hand and hopefully the boss would be willing to make an investment in you. Not quite the question you asked, but the route i might try to take. Sent from my LGLK430 using Tapatalk
Reply:OOPS, old thread
Reply:Like any small business you would need to do your homework. First thing would be what are you likely to do, is it a rural community where you might expect to be doing work for farmers, industrial area where you might be working on plant, mining area where you might be working on machinery. Then the amount of work that might be available, is there any other businesses around doing the same thing, has any one else doing the same thing gone broke in the area, should you specialise, should you do general work.Then most important of all, the shop you want to open, does it have good access and parking, is it close enough to the customers, then how are other shops in the area doing, make sure there hasn't been a succession of businesses renting the shop and going broke. Talk to other businesses in the area, other tenants of the same land lord etc etc.The equipment you buy would then be based on the work you think you will get for it, not necessarily the technology involved. My uncle did his homework and setup a shop to work on caterpillar tractors in a woodchip town here in Australia in the late 70's, only shop that could work on the really big girls for several hundred miles. He did very well and 20 years later he sold out and retired with a very tidy bank balance.
Reply:I think it always comes down to return on investment, but maybe that is the bean counter in me coming out. How much revenue are you going to generate, what does the machine cost to buy, run and maintain, and how long will it take to achieve payback. I do this type of analysis every day for a large IT services company. Even bought a data center once! We wont buy anything if we can't get our cash back in 18-24 months. Unless the new tech is substantially cheaper to buy and run, or unless it generates a whole lot more income than the old tech, you should go old tech to keep your cash investment down. Cash is the only thing that matters, and speed to payback is extremely important if you are going to reinvest and grow your business.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:So what I was going to post before the coffee shop internet crapped out on me was this:Start collecting your own set of tools, at least a year before you plan on opening. Do this while you have a paying job. Also, stay within your means. Hit Craigslist (caveat emptor, of course) and pawn shops. There's little difference between a Generweld 130 and a Champion 145 in terms of duty cycle, but the price difference could make a difference in other areas. Don't even think about upgrading until the business is well up and running, unless something mission- critical breaks and you can't repair it.Currently working as a Paralegal, but still interested in hobby welding.Miller Bobcat 225ntOne- Character Fractions: ¼ ½ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞
Reply:Since I just retired (65) last month, let me add my two cents.  Whatever you do, medical insurance is something to consider. If you can work somewhere/anywhere and get paid medical “while” you plan/start your dream business, I would make this your priority.I worked for a church (with full paid medical) while I accidentally found I loved cutting grass. I grew my landscaping business to the point where my part time business became the money maker and the church paid my medical.Now retired, I have my dream job (part time/everyone needs some sort of job even retired) and make a ton of money to boot (and don’t have to work at Wal-Mart or a crossing guard).So, think about the business you want while you let someone else pay the $20,000 a year for family medical.Hope this helps,Pete
Reply:I have a side business and work full time. I have a home shop where I do not solicit much but people come to me by word of mouth. It is more of a fun thing for me but I can and do make some money at it. I slowly bought equipment and tools and then continued the cycle of investing in them. Now I am at the point where mostly every night after work I have to get something out the door for a customer. I also invested what I made to my CNC plasma table project. Once I get that up an running I do not know where it will take me but right now sometimes I find myself scrambling to get jobs done for customers, cause again, I have a full time job. So as others have said, continue with a full time job then make the leap where you cannot continue with your full time job. It has taken me quite a few years to get the reputation to where I am now and I rarely hand cards out and solicit anymore. I will when I get my CNC plasma up and running.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:An old, revived thread but some very fine, sound advice in it. If everyone wanting to have their own business would pay attention to it, instead of getting all starry eyed over the thought of a bunch of new cool equipment there would be far fewer business failures.If you can start small,  reinvest 100% of the profits into your business and grow via word of mouth/referrals,  that's a great way to start.   As the previous poster said,  having a second source of income and health insurance is a key to success too.     Yes,  I'm following my own advice great thanks to my customers thus far Sent from mobile.  Not responsible for TyposTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by bassboy1Baloney.I can definitely improve the finished weld quality when adjusting the parameters, especially on aluminum.  There are plenty of times where focusing the asserted tighter than is possible with 60 hz allows for a much lower HAZ, which can eliminate or drastically reduce distortion.  No question about it - no way I'd go back to a transformer.My suggestion though, make your own product, or specialize in a specific type of custom work.  If you are doing general Fab or repair work, you'll never have all of the right equipment, - you'll always need different stuff for the next job walks in. If you specialize, you'll need less equipment, yet will produce higher quality work due to familiarity, and will be more efficient.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTStill waiting on this.
Reply:i would have a gas powered machine and burning rig on a truck for field work. if i had a shop i would match the equipment for the type of work i was doing. no need for robotics and automated plate processors if my work consisted of fixing lawn mowers and burglar bars.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderi would have a gas powered machine and burning rig on a truck for field work. if i had a shop i would match the equipment for the type of work i was doing. no need for robotics and automated plate processors if my work consisted of fixing lawn mowers and burglar bars.
Reply:I'd be very impressed if you could replicate that on a 60Hz, 50/50 balance transformer machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961How much call is there for that in the world of paid welding jobs?
Reply:I am not sure I can do that poorly with my transformer but I can give it a try. Do I have to dip the tungsten before starting the weld like the guy did with the piece in the pic? Or will just wiping grease all over the tungsten before I start be good enough? 12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:A good wipe down with WD-40 should help get you on track.
Reply:Dedicated tungsten grinder!12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829