And you said it couldn't be done! Stick welding 0.7mm sheet.

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Part of my project involves attaching a thin metal clip to a thin metal angled piece. I've had success with brazing, but it's a pain to flux, position without disturbing the flux, clamp without sucking away all the  heat OR putting so much strain on the metal that it warps, then to finally clean off the saturated and dirty flux. It takes forever, so I wanted to weld them instead. And I only have a stick welder with 2.0mm 6013 electrodes. My first test welds were sort of bastard plug welds, with a groove cut in the clip instead of a drilled hole, just because I thought a groove would be easier than a hole. Here's my horrible practice weld:As you can see, I screwed up in every way possible.Next time I tried, I drilled a proper hole. More importantly, I realized I should drill through the bigger member, so the majority of the heat would have a place to go, and I would avoid burn-through. I also found that an aluminum heat sink doesn't work, because I got no penetration. I'm using a steel heat sink now. And the obvious advantage of plug-welding from the back is that the weld can be hidden and won't need to be ground smooth. Here's a photo of this more successful process:Slag inclusions will ruin this weld if I don't get it hot enough. You can see that to the left of the successful test. Not every practice piece had good fusion, but most needed serious abuse with a pair of pliers before they ripped.The hidden part of the weld.This worked well enough that I made a better backing/fixturing tool--with this, the clip will always be straight, and I can get it a little hotter without risking burn-through:The welds on this are bad, but it's good enough for the job it needs to do!
Reply:Who said it couldn't be done ? I have welded 20 gauge using 6011 3/32 with an ac welder. Hell I used to weld exhaust tubing with stick before I bought a mig . Its not about welding skill its knowing what rods to use and how long to weld before burning holes in the material.
Reply:Okay, nobody said it couldn't be done (besides books and web sites, which insist that stick welding is only for thick metals). But I haven't heard of anyone actually doing metal this thin--based on the thickness, it should be 24-gauge galvanized steel (with the zinc ground off).
Reply:I am sure in the past it was done a lot especially the days when guys couldn't get their hands on a wire feed or TIG Welder.  You don't hear of it now because of the industry and welders available these days, Welding thin stuff with stick is more then possible but getting nice looking welds is very hard especially when you have the old timers expecting stack of dimes look. Sometimes its best to keep silent and do your own thing, Just hope no one gives you to much grief for your little project.
Reply:That makes sense. In fact, I feel the same way--I'm tempted to switch processes just because something else would be easier (maybe even safer) for thin metal. The advantages of GMAW for very thin metal seem to be:- Short circuit transfer- Can braze- No slag inclusions in joints that are too thin to be easily hit by a chipping hammer- With SMAW, it seems like buttering a sheet's edge to improve fitup will either include slag or melt the edge. I understand GMAW can do this better?
Reply:silver solder might work?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Nah, that's unavailable without cadmium here, and has most of the same problems as regular brazing. Besides, I'd like to build some other things with 2-3mm angle irons and tubing, and stick seems to make that a little harder than it needs to be.
Reply:Originally Posted by piojoThat makes sense. In fact, I feel the same way--I'm tempted to switch processes just because something else would be easier (maybe even safer) for thin metal. The advantages of GMAW for very thin metal seem to be:- Short circuit transfer- Can braze- No slag inclusions in joints that are too thin to be easily hit by a chipping hammer- With SMAW, it seems like buttering a sheet's edge to improve fitup will either include slag or melt the edge. I understand GMAW can do this better?
Reply:That's a good idea, I bet I could! I think you guys are too hard on Chinese welders. My stick welder ($100 used) is probably incomparably better than what you can buy in an American hardware store for $100. I bought the store's welder! The one they were using to make tool repairs. What should I look for in a multi-process machine? I was thinking:- For MIG, can do short-circuit transfer- Has an acceptable duty cycle/amperage (not so important to me)- Can do FCAW- Infinite wire speed control- Cold wire with the trigger off- Something the shop says is easy to repair- Do these machines have consumable tips that I need to verify can be replaced?- Do I need to check whether spot-welding attachments are available for this, or does it not matter which MIG I have?- Fancy feature: anti-sticking: useful only for SMAW?- Fancy feature: HF starting: useful only for GTAW?- Really fancy feature: more output programming. Is this useful at all for a "garage fabricator"?- AC: I understand this is totally unnecessary for GMAW?I don't know the price difference between a full multi-process machine and a GMAW/FCAW machine. I should find that out, then make decisions.
Reply:If Chinese made welders are as reliable as Chinese made hydraulics, I gotta say that I'd rather not invest the money in them.  I seldom get more than a few years out of any jacks made overseas, they simply don't work very long when used in any kind of real world environment.There may be good quality products made in China, available in China.....but we're not seeing them over here.  I hear a lot of sob stories about failed products.I know a lot of people have a hard time justifying spending big bucks on welding equipment, so maybe there is a place for cheap stuff for guys that do comparably little welding.  But for extended, repeated, hard use, there's simply no substitute for quality American, or European, made equipment.  I feel this comes from a longer industrialized history in these parts of the world, combined with more attention to product testing.  It's all about repeat business, not just selling large quantities fast."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Looks like a perfect application of brazing to me, or pinch welding. Not sure why you are having so much issue with that process unless you are not doing it properly with the proper tools and materials.
Reply:It may work, but very impractical....
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIf Chinese made welders are as reliable as Chinese made hydraulics, I gotta say that I'd rather not invest the money in them.  I seldom get more than a few years out of any jacks made overseas, they simply don't work very long when used in any kind of real world environment.There may be good quality products made in China, available in China.....but we're not seeing them over here.  I hear a lot of sob stories about failed products.I know a lot of people have a hard time justifying spending big bucks on welding equipment, so maybe there is a place for cheap stuff for guys that do comparably little welding.  But for extended, repeated, hard use, there's simply no substitute for quality American, or European, made equipment.  I feel this comes from a longer industrialized history in these parts of the world, combined with more attention to product testing.  It's all about repeat business, not just selling large quantities fast.
Reply:There are a lot of quality tools made in china they just cost the same as a quality made here which most do not want to pay. The us company just makes a higher profit on it that way.Sent from my SCH-I545 using TapatalkCRIME SCENES, COURT DATES, FUNERALS, RIDING THROUGH THE CITY WITH A BITCH THAT IS JUST BEAUTIFUL IT'S JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThere may be good quality products made in China, available in China.....but we're not seeing them over here.  I hear a lot of sob stories about failed products.I know a lot of people have a hard time justifying spending big bucks on welding equipment, so maybe there is a place for cheap stuff for guys that do comparably little welding.  But for extended, repeated, hard use, there's simply no substitute for quality American, or European, made equipment.  I feel this comes from a longer industrialized history in these parts of the world, combined with more attention to product testing.  It's all about repeat business, not just selling large quantities fast.
Reply:Originally Posted by piojoI think you guys are too hard on Chinese welders. My stick welder ($100 used) is probably incomparably better than what you can buy in an American hardware store for $100. I bought the store's welder! The one they were using to make tool repairs.
Reply:I wasn't referring specifically to Chinese electronics. The same thing is true of hard drives, cars, and even humans. The new ones are likely to fail. The ones that have survived a little while are less likely to immediately fail. This concept is called the Bathtub Curve.
Reply:Isn't this a perfect application for a spot welder?
Reply:Yes and no. It is, but I have to make more than one type of joint. Besides, I don't have a spot welder.
Reply:Hey man!If it does the job, it's a win in my book.It don't have to be perfect, just done right.
Reply:Nobody told me MIG was the most expensive type of welder! The cheapest I can find costs $1100 or more! And I'm not even sure it could do short circuit transfer, since it has no slope control settings. I'd better stick with what I have.Last edited by piojo; 09-27-2014 at 06:08 AM.Reason: pun
Reply:Originally Posted by piojoNobody told me MIG was the most expensive type of welder! The cheapest I can find costs $1100 or more! And I'm not even sure it could do short circuit transfer, since it has no slope control settings. I'd better stick with what I have.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauWhen I need to weld thin material, then I go to my MIG welder. It does short circuit transfer just fine. It don't need no stinking slope control. And further more, I NEVER said it couldn't be done, stick welding 0.7 mm sheet. But if I had to weld that thin of material then it would most likely be MIG.  By the way, I paid more for my stick welder USED, from a good friend, than I did for my MIG welder NEW from the welding supply store.
Reply:Short circuit welding is about the same as stick welding, only on a low power MIG. No my stick welder is nothing fancy either. It is a typical Miller Bob Cat 225 G, AC/DC CC/CV 100% duty cycle @ 200+ amp engine drive. No electrical connections needed, just gasoline. The only electrical connections needed are for whatever you want to plug into it to power up. I can even power up my house with it if I need to.