The last Welder

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I'm looking for the last welder I'll hope to have to buy.  Currently I run a 140C, any large material I tack together and bring to a buddy to have the finish weld put on.  He'll tell ya it'll be done Friday, and I won't see it until Wednesday.  I was thinking a 180C, but I have a feeling that is just an entry level "large" machine.I'd like to be able to weld 3/16"-1/4" with shielding gas.  I'd also like to get a decent spool gun for aluminum at some point.  I don't want a stick, or tig, just Mig.What do you all suggest?  Possibly around $1500.   Is that even possible?  It'll be for general repairs and hobby fabrication.
Reply:I would suggest you keep your 140 amp machine, then look for something in the 250 amp range for the larger machine.My 175 amp machines will weld 1/4", but I have to have them cranked all the way up for single pass, a bit lower for multi-pass (but not much lower).  I've learned to live within those limitations, but there have been a time or two when a larger machine would have served me well.Get something a bit larger than you would expect to use normally.  You never know when you will need the extra power.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I was thinking the 216.  250A
Reply:Originally Posted by brendonvI'm looking for the last welder I'll hope to have to buy.  Currently I run a 140C, any large material I tack together and bring to a buddy to have the finish weld put on.  He'll tell ya it'll be done Friday, and I won't see it until Wednesday.  I was thinking a 180C, but I have a feeling that is just an entry level "large" machine.I'd like to be able to weld 3/16"-1/4" with shielding gas.  I'd also like to get a decent spool gun for aluminum at some point.  I don't want a stick, or tig, just Mig.What do you all suggest?  Possibly around $1500.   Is that even possible?  It'll be for general repairs and hobby fabrication.
Reply:Is there any special home wiring requirements for these bigger welders?
Reply:Originally Posted by brendonvIs there any special home wiring requirements for these bigger welders?
Reply:You'll need a larger 220v circuit for a larger welder.  Not too difficult if your home/shop has the capacity in the panel.  The 216 would be a good choice and you can find them for just under 1500 delivered.  The 255XT is around 2100.
Reply:I just bought a millermatic 212 the older version with the 7taps not the autoselect for $1347 plus $7 shipping from airgas.  Look on the airgas web site there discounting them out.  They're new with full warrenty.  THere just stock they have left.  I got mine two weeks ago and love it.
Reply:Get a Lincoln 255xt, not a  Miller
Reply:I would like to get a better idea of what you might be welding as far as aluminum is concerned.  From my understanding migging aluminum is hot and fast and unforgiving, with minimum 1/8" thickness.  Some people can do thinner but then it becomes a skill that has to be maintained.  If you want to do thinner aluminum and have the "stack of dimes" look you may need to lean towards tig.  A mig in the 215 amp catagory should work for you just fine.
Reply:You can get a 255c on close out from airgas for $1700 brand new. Then add the timer kit for $135 whenever you decide you need it. Then it is the same as the new 255xt. You need a 50-60amp outlet if your going to run it at the upper limits.If you cannot convince them, confuse them.         Harry S Truman
Reply:As far as aluminum I'd like to make a tail gate for my mason dump truck, out of 1/8" material.  Nothing thinner than that.
Reply:Damn, those are some killer prices at Airgas.I really can't swing it this month, probably not next either.  Might miss out on those.
Reply:If deciding between the Miller 212 and Lincoln 216, go with the Lincoln.  I have used both and simply put, was not impressed by the Miller.  If at all possible and when possible, go with as big as you can.  You can always lower the output, but cant increase it if its not available.  Good luck and good welding!A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by brendonvDamn, those are some killer prices at Airgas.I really can't swing it this month, probably not next either.  Might miss out on those.
Reply:Is the 215 the older version of the 216?
Reply:The 215 is the older version of the 216.  Major differences between the two I believe are:  the 215 had a 120 recepticle on the machine to run grinders, drills etc. directly off the machine where the 216 does not have it ( was discontinued), the rest of differences are I believe to be mainly cosmetic.  I could be wrong though.A few of my toys !LinuxMintManjaroMiller Roughneck 2E Lincoln WeldPak 100HTP MTS 160 Chicago Electric 80amp Inverter   Victor O/A
Reply:Originally Posted by brendonvIs the 215 the older version of the 216?
Reply:I'm liking the 215, $1234.Trying hard not to reach over for my wallet right now.  That'll run the magnum sg spool gun.
Reply:They were out of the 215's for $1234 over two weeks ago.  They still have them on there web site but when i called two weeks ago they were all out.  The cheapest one is the mm212 for $1345.
Reply:A 255 and you'll always have lots of power for anything you plan on doing. In my book it's the smallest industrial machine lincoln has. With 045 dualshield you can rip them in @ 25 volts and 300 I.P.M. or a spool of 024 solid wire and weld delicate sheet metal.
Reply:I'm always amused at how some are here at spending other people's money...
Reply:
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensI'm always amused at how some are here at spending other people's money...
Reply:I think I'm just going to wait it out and go with the 255 series.I might just end up buying local, try to pick at them to get a couple/few hundred off a package deal with a nice spool gun.
Reply:A 255 with a spool gun and will be a very happy welder
Reply:Originally Posted by IRONARTISTI'm amusued why you had to even reply(refer to no no icon), he asked a question and I answered it IMHO. Wouldn't it be poor advice telling him to buy smaller than he might need sometime in the future. I've been doing this long enough anything smaller than a 255 would be a waste of my time and money plus possible liability issues. I try to look ahead and buy a little larger just in case the future it is needed
Reply:Originally Posted by brendonvI'm liking the 215, $1234.Trying hard not to reach over for my wallet right now.  That'll run the magnum sg spool gun.
Reply:Note:Unless the makers changed the performance of the machines a lot, you really can't do spray transfer MIG with the 200 (212, 210, 215, 216, etc) class of machines.  Not enough voltage output.  That means you can't also run the 'industrial' wires like dual-shield or metal-core.  Just solid mild steel wires in short-circuit transfer mode and some of the lower-voltage FCAW wires.  Aluminum 4343 but usually not 5356.  And stainless but usually not in spray-mode with something like 98-2 ar-O2.To do spray or the 'industrial' wires, you usually have to move up to the 250-class (255, etc) of machines.Why spray?  To make sure you fuse into the base metal, and to put gobs of heat into the workpiece.    The 180 class machines also usually can't accept a 12 inch spool of wire.  4 inch or 8 inch.   The bigger machines may or may not accept the little 4 inch spools. (cost per pound or per inch is highest on the little spools, but sometimes you don't want or need 25 or 44 pounds of wire sitting around.   )Minimum 'one-machine-to-do-most-anything'?  That's the 250-class machines IMO.  You have to decide on your acceptable trade-offs regarding $$$ and electrical power needs versus machine size and weight and output power (voltage -and- amperage) and ability to run wires other than plain solid steel or the lower voltage FCAW wires.  And the various options regarding aluminum (low-end spool gun like the SG100 at ~$200 or the 'real' spool guns at $500-$1000 or so or a push-pull gun $$$).  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensHe asked about a 250 amp welder in the $1500  price range.  You suggested something totally different about 30% more than budgeted.  Hobby welders typically don't weld past 1/4" or really 1/8".  I've built a couple race cars and I'm finishing one right now with a 180 amp MIG.  Full time pro welders may need a 300 amp machine but most part timers don't.  You're so caught up in your own tunnel vision that you can't objectively offer advice suitable for the application.
Reply:I found a couple 255 on CL.  What's a fair price?The two I found are $1500, and one is $1400 w/bottle.I found one with a spool gun for 1500 but it sold, damnit.Last edited by brendonv; 02-18-2010 at 11:37 AM.
Reply:Well,I am throwing out the ESAB Migmaster 250 as being one that will be around.  The problem with some of these welders is that they haven't been around long enough to know what will truly survive.  The MigMaster has been unchanged in most ways for over 20 years now.  It came in to ESAB from the old Linde line and it is still around....That says a lot.  I know guys who have had them since the 80's I think and its the same machine I bought a few years ago and basically the same one now, except a drive mechanism change and a gun change.It'll spray easily and it is easy to set.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Nobody has an idea on resale value of the 255?I'm amazed the asking prices are within a few hundred of a brand new machine.  Mine as well get a new one is what I'm thinking.Last edited by brendonv; 02-19-2010 at 10:03 AM.
Reply:I got my 255 for $500 all it needed was a gun and drive rolls ($200 for both). I wouldnt pay a penny over a grand. If it came with a bottle and some other goodies maybe $1200If you cannot convince them, confuse them.         Harry S Truman
Reply:Is there anything on welders that "go".  Being used commercially for years are there a lot of internal parts that need replacing besides consumables?  The guy said he's firm on 1400, I'm probably going to pass this time.  Just can't wrap my head around a used one only $500 less than new.
Reply:Check the gun to see if it has been run hard and over heated, if he is welding sheet metal it is probably fine, if he has been welding on 1/2" plate the whole time it might been burnt up. If the gun is fine, about the only other things you can check are the controls and the drive rolls. Rolls do wear out, but it takes a looooooooooot of wire to wear the rolls out. The average Joe will never wear them out, but if its been run hard there is a chance it needs rolls (~$35). Besides that, its just a big *** transformer, if it works then its good to go.Check airgas and see if they have any of the NOS (new, but old stock) PM255C's available at $1700 and some change. Last time I checked the still had them listed online, but who knows how often they update.If you cannot convince them, confuse them.         Harry S Truman
Reply:Originally Posted by brendonvNobody has an idea on resale value of the 255?I'm amazed the asking prices are within a few hundred of a brand new machine.  Mine as well get a new one is what I'm thinking.
Reply:I just gotta say.  I went to the guy who does my heavy welding today.  He let me throw down some beads with his 300amp Miller machine.  WOW is all I gotta say.  Amazing what a large machine can do, there was no guessing that the welds I threw down were the real deal.  I'm considering a Miller 252 now too.  He suggested them over Lincoln for quality of drive parts.