Gusset in Angle Help Please

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I am a raw beginner with an AC BuzzBox trying to learn how to weld a gusset in angle.I tried one bead all the way around thru the 90* - no way, at least for me. So are two separate beads the way to go in this situation ???Using two beads it seems if I am hot enough to start on the inside of the 90* and get a good weld by the time I run to the edge I burn thru. If I start on the outside edge and run into the corner the penetration is good all the way but I have trouble because I have to hold the stick 90 degrees to the path of travel. This is 3/32" 6011 at 75 amps on 3/16" material. Any help on how to do this weld is appreciated.Two beads outside in with 90* stick anglegg
Reply:You'll save yourself a bunch of time with restrikes if you practice going right through the joint. It is tricky at fist because the rod angle changes drasticly in the corner since you have to swing the stinger fast about 90* to get the angle right for traveling out of the corner. But with a little practice it's not bad. With separate welds on each side you'll have to chip slag in between each one so that will take awhile. What I sujest is practicing with the welder off going from one edge into the coner, turning the electrode and going out. That way you can get a feel for angle change without having to focus on the puddle. Then once you gat used to turning the coner with out power turn the welder on and try it. Good luck.My "collection":Homemade Stick WelderVictor O/A TorchAC 225Ideal Arc 250HF 90 Amp Flux CoreHF Mig 170Solar 2020 Plasma CutterPower i-Mig 140EHarris O/A torchHF Dual Mig 131140STAlpha Tig 200x
Reply:When doing this, I normally start my weld out on the toe of the angle iron. Weld to the heel of the angle iron, and stop. Then do the same thing on the other side. Reason being, I don’t like to have stops / crater out on the toe of the angle iron. I would much rather have my stops / crater at the heel of the angle iron.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I usually cut the corner right off the gusset so the inside corner is not in play anymore......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by g_manI am a raw beginner with an AC BuzzBox trying to learn how to weld a gusset in angle.I tried one bead all the way around thru the 90* - no way, at least for me. So are two separate beads the way to go in this situation ???Using two beads it seems if I am hot enough to start on the inside of the 90* and get a good weld by the time I run to the edge I burn thru. If I start on the outside edge and run into the corner the penetration is good all the way but I have trouble because I have to hold the stick 90 degrees to the path of travel. This is 3/32" 6011 at 75 amps on 3/16" material. Any help on how to do this weld is appreciated.Two beads outside in with 90* stick anglegg
Reply:Thank you for the helpful responses. I had to get this bracket made and move on. So I did the best I could. And it is what it is.  I can only hope that I can learn to do better as I go along. I found out it is not like doing an open fillet practice piece at all.Any comments are welcome.gg
Reply:those welds scare me.
Reply:Originally Posted by SHaWthose welds scare me.
Reply:More practice. With me, I'll go weeks and not touch the welder and then I'll end up welding for a week straight. So before I do anything I'll usually grab some scrap and burn some wire on similar joints like what I will need to just to get back in the groove.Licensed Marine MechanicInterprovincial MillwrightCivil Engineer
Reply:I'll ask the $1,000,000.00 question. What is this bracket for?"You can't out puke a buzzard"
Reply:Fair question - It is a make work project. Overly complicated on purpose to get to see  some welding problems not seen doing straight practice pieces. It is half a hinge that will be part of a brake for my little welding cart. Harmless. What I learned here is that if the angle you can hold the electrode in is restricted and not optimum or if you try to work backhand things are way different. It does not come out like all the beads you laid on a plate. It is like starting over. So now I know some new things to practice on.gg
Reply::-)I was afraid you were going to say it was a hitch you were putting on your truck to haul your 8-horse trailer.Congrats on your can-do attitude.All welding is about starting and maintaining a puddle. Ideally, you will be able to maintain a constantly shaped and sized puddle, while at the same time depositing the desired amount of metal on each of the work pieces.Real world situations are often not ideal, and each new one is an opportunity to learn a little about welding.While it is usually best to maintain a constant leading angle, as you have found out, sometimes that just is not possible. You may even find sometimes that you might have to have a trailing angle, just to get the weld made.As Clyde Drexler likes to say..."The more you practice, the luckier you get."Last edited by geezerbill; 02-04-2016 at 08:13 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI usually cut the corner right off the gusset so the inside corner is not in play anymore......zap!
Reply:g manYour welds [?] don't meet flat muster.Why are you attempting 3D?Opus
Reply:If ultimate strength is important you should 45 degree the inside corner and weld only the toes . Leave the corner open with the 45 degree bevel.
Reply:Originally Posted by OPUS FERROg manYour welds [?] don't meet flat muster.Why are you attempting 3D?Opus
Reply:read any lincoln books on welding they usually recommend 5/32 rod at 140 amps. beginners often use 1/8 rod at 110 amps.just saying you are using not enough amps. you pull long arc and bring to corner and shorten arc length into corner and weld out of corner. unless you are burning or melting through material you are not using enough amps.. if you are limited on amps cause you are using a 120 volt welder you can try a 1/16 dia rod and run it at max for rod size which is about 50 amps but you are limited with what you can do on 120 volt welders. some welding machines give more heat if medium arc length is used as opposed to short arc or dragging rod. other machines when you hold a short arc length weld amps goes up automatically but on little 120 volt welders at max setting they cannot go any higher amps with short arc length as they are already at maxLast edited by WNY_TomB; 02-06-2016 at 10:48 AM.
Reply:I've got a few questions that relates to this. First, what's the toe and heel of an angle iron? Second, does cutting the corner off a gusset lower the reinforcement or strength of it? Thanks gentleman
Reply:Check out my illustration lol. And I don't think cutting the corner out would lower the strength much at all. So CEP said he likes to weld from the toe (as demonstrated by the arrows) to the heel,  which leaves the crater on the inside corner,  and not on the usually more visible toe. Originally Posted by FlashedI've got a few questions that relates to this. First, what's the toe and heel of an angle iron? Second, does cutting the corner off a gusset lower the reinforcement or strength of it? Thanks gentleman
Reply:You should be an artist over welding. In my head that's how I pictured it. Thanks for clearing it up for me, sir.
Reply:My welder is a old 220V Lincoln TombStone. AC only 40 to 225 amps in 15 amp steps. I practiced some more today. Increasing the amps from 75 to 90 helped - this is with 3/32" 6011 and 3/16" angle. Dealing with the odd stick angle and welding backhand is still a challenge but thanks to the help from here I may have gained a little. Will keep working at it.Thanks to allgg
Reply:That looks much improved! Keep practicing and soon you'll be welding corners in your sleep.My "collection":Homemade Stick WelderVictor O/A TorchAC 225Ideal Arc 250HF 90 Amp Flux CoreHF Mig 170Solar 2020 Plasma CutterPower i-Mig 140EHarris O/A torchHF Dual Mig 131140STAlpha Tig 200x
Reply:Originally Posted by g_manMy welder is a old 220V Lincoln TombStone. AC only 40 to 225 amps in 15 amp steps. I practiced some more today. Increasing the amps from 75 to 90 helped - this is with 3/32" 6011 and 3/16" angle. Dealing with the odd stick angle and welding backhand is still a challenge but thanks to the help from here I may have gained a little. Will keep working at it.Thanks to allgg
Reply:Originally Posted by WNY_TomBread any lincoln books on welding they usually recommend 5/32 rod at 140 amps. beginners often use 1/8 rod at 110 amps.just saying you are using not enough amps. you pull long arc and bring to corner and shorten arc length into corner and weld out of corner. unless you are burning or melting through material you are not using enough amps.. if you are limited on amps cause you are using a 120 volt welder you can try a 1/16 dia rod and run it at max for rod size which is about 50 amps but you are limited with what you can do on 120 volt welders. some welding machines give more heat if medium arc length is used as opposed to short arc or dragging rod. other machines when you hold a short arc length weld amps goes up automatically but on little 120 volt welders at max setting they cannot go any higher amps with short arc length as they are already at max
Reply:Try 7018 rods. Much nicer welds.Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180Originally Posted by Welder DaveWhere do you get 5/32" from? He was using 3/32" but it doesn't matter what book you read or what the machine says. The weld itself tells you more about if you have the right amps. Only  real critical jobs with a weld procedure would have an amp range you have to be in and then you either have it measured with a clamp meter or your machine would have to be calibrated so it's accurate.