Lowboy ramps

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This is a little side project I've been working on the last couple of weekends.  It is a 1981 model lowboy.  We bought it at an auction in 1988.  I don't know if it had the original ramps on it, (I assume it did), I've patched them back together a few times over the years.  Finally got to the point that there wasn't enough left to patch...Not a real good picture, but the reason for the chain across the ramps, is the one pictured would fall off if I didn't chain it on...-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Building the new ramps:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Trailer with the  old junk cut off-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:One new ramp on the trailer-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:You can see how mangled the old ramps are on the left side of the trailer.  The old ones were 4' long, with 3 runners of 4 1/2" channel.  The new ones are 5' long, with just 2 runners of 5" 9# channel.  The steepness wasn't an issue itself, I've loaded both my '96 and my '99 Dodge 1 tons multiple times, without any issues. But hoping the extra foot will get the nose of my trencher started up quicker, letting it clear the dovetail at the beginning.  Always had to block up with skids to get it started on.  And, backhoes swing tower drags on the ground loading and unloading.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:htp; awesome work as usual. i was thinking those rounds on the ends were rollers but now believe they are welded in place? not to change the subject but i first noticed your tool/rod bucket on the road bore pics and saw the loops. are they for sorting different size rods or what?i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:The 5" channel will take a world of abuse.I noticed what seem to be the old 15" Dayton rims  It's getting very hard to find those nowdays.  Like a fool, I passed up an opportunity to buy a salvage (no title) trailer up in S. Coffeyville that had what seemed to be good axles with the 15" Daytons.I wanted to build a single axle drop deck/lowboy type trailer.  The 15's would mean close to 6" lower deck height.Instead I picked up some regular 20" Dayton's.  I think a lo pro 22.5 tire is available for these, but I'm not sure how they compare in diameter to a 15" wheel/tire.(For those unfamiliar with these old style rims/wheels....................Cast spoke wheels with demountable rims are actually 20", but will take a 22.5 rim/tire, or the old 10.00-20 rim/tire)Looks like a real straight trailer you got there."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Those cross pieces don't look strong enough to me as is, are you figuring on adding a center support? You also might wantto consider some sort of tie towards the bottom of the ramps so they don't spread, usually the cross pieces offer some support there but you have very little. Hate to see you put this much work into a noice project and have it fail.Last edited by welderj; 11-10-2014 at 08:09 AM.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjThose cross pieces don't look strong enough to me as is, are you figuring on adding a center support? You also might wantto consider some sort of tie towards the bottom of the ramps so they don't spread, usually the cross pieces offer some support there but you have very little. Hate to see you put this much work into a noice project and have it fail.
Reply:Im far from a expert on low boys, although I have repaired a bunch, but your ramps look great and very well thought out. Farmersamms opinions would go far with me as he is seasoned to transportation builds.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:I didn't see the pipe at the bottom the first time I looked so forget the part about more ties, your fine there. SorryYeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I'm with welderj We have a very similar trailer we use to haul our 312 cat and our 912 cat among 7 other large tractors and I can tell you that unless that trailer is reserved for light work, those ramps need to be twice as strong.and  I'm usually one to think things are over built on this site.Last edited by farmer2; 11-10-2014 at 09:32 AM.
Reply:Good looking ramps I like to run "a little" more air in my tires than this particular inside dual Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipeline
Reply:It's a good discussion.Here's what I refer to when talking about ramp width, and tire size.  You can see the tire is as wide as the ramp.  The load is spread out over the width of the ramp.  You also might note that it takes a little help setting up heavy ramps  You got over 700lbs of stuff there total between all 4 piecesI'm also built a little heavy because my ramps have a very low approach angle.  I don't like driving a tractor up a steep incline, it has a tendancy to wind up on top of you when it flips back over because the nose is so light.  So my ramps are closer to something like a bridge, with a wide clearspan (8') for each section (the ramp is a total of 16' long when assembled)With ramps that have a steeper approach angle the materials can be lighter.  There's less force applied to the side rails, and crossmembers.  It's physics, which I can't explain, but know it to be true.  Take, for example, a ladder:  It will support a 300lb man climbing at near vertical, but would collapse if the ladder were placed between two points, and the same man attempt to walk across it like a bridge.Also, a short ramp never has the entire weight of the vehicle on it at any time.  Only one axle at any given moment.Strength to weight ratio would indeed be better, in this instance, if angle were used instead of round stock, but then again......I'm thinking it's being used for a more specialized purpose.I will bow, to some degree, to the round stock argument.  The pin supports on my trailer are set up so that, in any position, the ramp eyes won't be far from the supports, thus the multiple supports.  The ramp can be attached anywhere on the rear of the trailer to accommodate for varying axle widths on the stuff I'm loading.  The clear span between the pin supports is kept to a minimum this way."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Now those are some ramps Samm. I can't imagine dragging them around, but you could load most anything with them.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Samm, your design is actually a good deal stronger than his and your loading a 12000- 15000 pound tractor.  That trailer of his is a 20 ton plus trailer.  Look at how twisted the old ramps are, and they are actually a heavier design.  I don't think his ramps are even close to matching the rating of that trailer.Last edited by farmer2; 11-10-2014 at 10:56 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2Samm, your design is actually a good deal stronger than his and your loading a 12000- 15000 pound tractor.  That trailer of his is a 20 ton plus trailer.  Look at how twisted the hold ramps are, and they are actually a heavier design.  I don't think his ramps are even close to matching the rating of that trailer.
Reply:Mike I see your point, but a trailers ramps should equal the trailers capacity.  Besides I see a dozer in the background and you know eventually someone's gonna load that trailer.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmer2Mike I see your point, but a trailers ramps should equal the trailers capacity.  Besides I see a dozer in the background and you know eventually someone's gonna load that trailer.
Reply:Originally Posted by docwelderhtp; awesome work as usual. i was thinking those rounds on the ends were rollers but now believe they are welded in place? not to change the subject but i first noticed your tool/rod bucket on the road bore pics and saw the loops. are they for sorting different size rods or what?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammThe 5" channel will take a world of abuse.I noticed what seem to be the old 15" Dayton rims  It's getting very hard to find those nowdays.  Like a fool, I passed up an opportunity to buy a salvage (no title) trailer up in S. Coffeyville that had what seemed to be good axles with the 15" Daytons.I wanted to build a single axle drop deck/lowboy type trailer.  The 15's would mean close to 6" lower deck height.Instead I picked up some regular 20" Dayton's.  I think a lo pro 22.5 tire is available for these, but I'm not sure how they compare in diameter to a 15" wheel/tire.(For those unfamiliar with these old style rims/wheels....................Cast spoke wheels with demountable rims are actually 20", but will take a 22.5 rim/tire, or the old 10.00-20 rim/tire)Looks like a real straight trailer you got there.
Reply:Originally Posted by vwguy3That one tire looks low on air pressureNice work on the ramps!Twisted minds Dave?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammPut a dozer on there, and the load is more to the outside of the ramp because of the width of the tracks.  Very little concentrated load in the center.  And I'd imagine the round stock makes for a good bite for the grousers.I do mostly wheeled vehicles (tractor and such), so for my use I made my ramps using angle iron with the "v" facing up to provide a lot of traction for the relatively small footprint a wheel offers.  And interestingly enough.......any time I've loaded a tractor, the rear tires generally almost, if not slightly, overhang the outside of the ramps, there again...an even spread load.  Anything with tires small enough to fit inside the ramp outside rails is generally too light to make a difference, for me anyways.These look to be purpose built ramps, not generic.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauAt least you can tell it has air in it. You can look in there and see it.Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveGood looking ramps I like to run "a little" more air in my tires than this particular inside dual Attachment 900201
Reply:I appreciate the concerns expressed by everyone here.  But having been around it my whole life (literally), these are very purpose built.  I think they will work fine.  If I had a half dozen drivers using it, I may be more concerned.  But I do almost all the equipment moving myself.  It's kind of a mixed up deal, I am the sole owner of my company, which owns the Peterbilt, all the trailers, and also a '80 Mack.  Then myself and Larry are partners on another company that we do mainly dumptruck and backhoe work under.  Then us and another guy are partners on yet another company that we are doing the pipeline work under.  Working as the new company, the company pays me for the use of my trucks and equipment, in addition to wages...  Anyway, (that was a lot of words just to explain this...lol) if I'm doing something else or otherwise tied up, my partner Larry sometimes moves equipment.  We have been best friends since about 6th grade, and I taught him how to run the equipment and he also loads and unloads as I do...  The worst thing I've seen on a lowboy hauling equipment, is people either trying to turn on the ramps/dovetail because they didn't get lined up correctly, or I've actually seen people try to drive an excavator up onto the trailer like a dozer.  I always do it as if I don't even have ramps...Anyway, gonna give them a try.  If I make them any heavier, theres gonna be issues with trying to manually use them.  Not really a fan of hydraulic ramps on a lowboy.  They're ok on highway recovery type trailers (towing company stuff), but pipeline ROW is rough on stuff.  I think there would be multiple issues before long trying to hydraulically power them.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Maybe I'm just lazy as I get older but I prefer hydraulic ramps. These are just a push of a button to raise or lower.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobMaybe I'm just lazy as I get older but I prefer hydraulic ramps. These are just a push of a button to raise or lower.
Reply:That old truck has a 300+ Mack engine and 13 speed Fuller trans. It's a bit light w/38k rears on tall rubber but gets the job done well. Not really a powerhouse but enough torque rise to twist an input shaft to the trans quite easily if loaded heavy.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobThat old truck has a 300+ Mack engine and 13 speed Fuller trans. It's a bit light w/38k rears on tall rubber but gets the job done well. Not really a powerhouse but enough torque rise to twist an input shaft to the trans quite easily if loaded heavy.
Reply:An old mechanical Cummins with a 13spd behind it might not outrun the new stuff, but it will outlast it.  300rpm between gears is an engine saver.Diesel engine will deliver amazing torque at low rpms, but there's a sacrifice.  It eats bottom ends.The 13spd keeps the motor running in a very narrow power band all day long."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobThat old truck has a 300+ Mack engine and 13 speed Fuller trans. It's a bit light w/38k rears on tall rubber but gets the job done well. Not really a powerhouse but enough torque rise to twist an input shaft to the trans quite easily if loaded heavy.
Reply:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammYou're lucky to have the 13spd, wish I had the same.My International has a 9spd that can be modified with a kit from Fuller, but I got a 170" wheelbase, and no room to add anything behind the tranny.  The existing driveshaft is about maybe 3 feet long.I shouldn't complain, it was the reason I bought the truck.  I needed a short wheelbase that could get into most farmyards.  I bought the truck back during the drought, and its sole purpose was to haul hay.  It will get into almost anywhere, believe me.  It's a good truck.But I wish it had more gearsBut I still wish I had some depth in the gears, a 9spd is pretty crappy overall.  Doesn't let the engine run at a steady speed.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammAn old mechanical Cummins with a 13spd behind it might not outrun the new stuff, but it will outlast it.  300rpm between gears is an engine saver.Diesel engine will deliver amazing torque at low rpms, but there's a sacrifice.  It eats bottom ends.The 13spd keeps the motor running in a very narrow power band all day long.
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipeline
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobThat's a nice old R model. You're right about the torque rise on those series of engines. The "Maxidyne" 300's were terrible on drivelines under a driver with a heavy foot. If they were run as designed, they yielded great service life. Don't really see too many trucks on spokes in Oklahoma; was your's shipped in from the east? In those days some folks still desired the Dayton hubs as they are much stronger than Budd hubs, (IMO) for vocational use. One of my R models has the two stick six speed trans also. That one has a Mack V8 and the trans is the low geared version with 23:1 reduction for off road use. It runs/pulls well and darkens the sky when the loud pedal gets floored. That 1241 series trans was a good one and really popular to the heavy haul guys. I assume your engine in the Pete is a 3406B series? Good engine and plenty of power to be had; just had to keep an eye/ear on the timing gears in some of the early ones. They liked to get expensive if run too long when noisy. The 3406C series of that engine had a better lower end and oiling system, but both great engines if maintained well.I also have a couple of R series with V8 Mack engines, and one with a 1693TA Cat which is also juiced up. The Cat powered truck is quite rare and all torn down for restoration. It was a private owned truck used for much the same type work your R model is shown doing all it's working life. The road building outfit it came from has all Caterpillar equipment so ordered this truck new with the Cat engine.Here's another of that white R model doing what it does best. These photos are when bringing my "Yella Dog" back from shaggin trailers at a friends lot when his Ottawa tractor was down. The trailer is not mine, (certainly wouldn't mind having it though)......
Reply:Probably purchased from Rick Harper's dad at Tulsa Mack? Pretty good dealership in those days gone by..... Now that Rick is running it I understand there has been a few changes. I have a couple of friends in the Tulsa area whom are loyal to the brand and still patronize there often. I use Thompson Diesel almost exclusively for pump work to this day. I've known that family many years.I'm also not a fan of the newer "Mack" trucks although as good as anything else out there. I've been around them and the older support base far too long and remember the benefits of being within the "Mack family" which is really no longer there. I still run my older stuff part time and that's good enough for me but parts are drying up rapidly for keeping things going.The old driveshaft brake eh? Yeah, those were great at holding an empty parked tractor stationary on level ground but that's about it. Most times you could overpull one of those with a garden tractor... The old 237 engines? What a "hoss" in it's day. Around the St. Louis area as a kid they were all over the place but mostly with five and six speed transmissions. On road use mostly. The old Mack TRQ-7220 "quadbox" , (5&4) trans you mention was a good layout but the torque rise of those "Maxidyne" engines played hell on the mainshaft bearings in them being a single countershaft transmission. I have two of them but not behind "Maxidyne" engines but rather the "Thermodyne" series and really like them. It's getting very hard to obtain parts for these any longer and they used to be so common. The last low range gears I needed Blumenthal's in OKC looked for weeks to find, but were successful after all. An input shaft? Try $1300.00!!!I have a nice original 58 B-61 three axle tractor a buddy of mine pulled off a semi trailer for me onto a loading ramp with a new D9. Not thinking anything about no brakes, it promplty collided with the radiator frame, (tractor was minus "U" frame and blade) of the dozer pushing everything back and busting the radiator on the truck. Not really a problem as I have extra stuff but really don't like consuming parts like this..... I think Leland was about the best bed out there for winch truck work. I have a "Roustabout" bed from them w/10' poles that is going onto my 57 B-61 I've posted up photos of for a welding rig. The full width roller tailboard gets a lot of use once guys get used to having them. I have a 20K Tulsa mechanical winch for the truck and a reversing PTO for the triplex trans installed. Seemingly have everything but time to finish it. I've been around trucks, winches, wreckers, etc. most of my life and still kinda like it. I've dealt with Perfection Equipment for several years for parts on both Tulsa, and Braden with service and pricing being favorable, albiet expensive any way it's sliced.As far as gasoline powered trucks I still have an IH R-190 which I installed a light swing crane bed onto back in the late 1980's and still use occasionally. It is much too rough of truck to put on the road especially after I rolled it onto the left side when a cable parted while loading scrap cars. I just cut the driver's door off which was folded like an accordian bellows. The truck still runs very well with it's RD450 engine. My 51 Mack A-40 is a tandem dump truck and is still used to haul dirt with every now and then. That white R model was setup to pull a folding mechanical neck trailer, (Trail King) also. It is originally from Abilene TX and I've only had it a few years. It does run and perform well for what it is. The original owner kept it around as it was the old dependable truck they could use when the newer ones were in the shop for repair. There is a mechanical Tulsa model "80" winch on it, (100K line pull) and it will part a 1" cable without effort as I know all too well. I don't use the truck as it was meant to be but keep it around as it always starts and does what it's supposed to do. Brakes and drums are thin so it will need work before any type of DOT inspection. I really need to change the transmission too as it howls in the lower three gears; one of these days.....I've had a couple of oilfield floats in the past and that is a good platform to operate with if loading/unloading equipment a lot. Very easy to do especially with air latched fifth wheels. Hell, you don't even have to get out of the cab and that's a dream for a lazy man like me. Most of those trailers are limited to that type use because of the lack of landing gear and not everybody has a winch, or rails setup to pull them, but in the off road, they can't be beat. A winch tractor with two winches, (one for poles, one for lifting/dragging) is the way to go if you have the capacity and length. I don't have a truck with dual winches but have been around them and they are very functional for setting and extracting equipment. A lot of the old timers berate hydraulic powered winches but I favor them. I've rather not abuse equipment and if the hydraulics system is balanced to the equipment, it's just as powerful and doesn't have the capacity to break or explode things. On the plus side you can run a single pto/pump combination so it can be a bit less expensive to set up. If you consider an 18 speed upgrade, look into a 20918B series as they seem to be durable and hold up well in the heavy haul areana. They wear out too but not as quickly as earlier variants. Use synthetic lubricant only even though it's terribly expensive.The "dozer motor" truck, yes it's a 700 series tractor. I don't think you could cram that engine under a 600's hood and have any room in the cab. It is actually a Western "RL" series with aluminum frame and lightweight suspension components. Rust and mud buildup destroyed the cab, but the frame and underpinnings are in decent shape. The engine runs well and I drove it about 400 miles home after purchase. This is another truck with a shot 13 speed, but it's only noisy in the splitter section. I have another spare 1693TA, (actually D-343) in the shop which is a very good engine and am toying with either installing this into another R700 I have, or sticking with the original plan of my 12V-71 Detroit engine calling the truck, "Project R-12". This truck has a 325 Mack V8 engine and it will outpull a NTC-400 Cummins in stock trim consistently. I mean no disrepect to the Cummins engine, but I've been around the V8 Mack engines a lot and this is more normal than exception. If only the Mack V8 engines had stronger lower ends.....I only have the one semi trailer any longer. When I slimmed down my operations I let a lot of stuff go. I'm now near retirement and beginning to become a "bum" as I go to the shop only when I want, answer the phone only when I want, and work on only what I want. It's that having free time thing I'm having difficulty adjusting to but the grand daughters take up quite a bit of that.I am thinking of converting one of my "RL-797" trucks into a rollback type hauler. I had those for so many years it doesn't seem right to not have one around. One of my trucks is long enough I could install a 28' bed with little rework. I already have all the hydraulics needed and may move onto this project over the winter. I'd like to rebuild my A-40 and haul it to truck shows but it seems like a lot of work for a single purpose but whom knows? Here is a photo of the "dozer motor" truck prior to disassembly: And a few of the "dozer motor":And what the hell, a partial shot of the criminals awaiting judgement in "lineup" fashion:SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobProbably purchased from Rick Harper's dad at Tulsa Mack? Pretty good dealership in those days gone by..... Now that Rick is running it I understand there has been a few changes. I have a couple of friends in the Tulsa area whom are loyal to the brand and still patronize there often. I use Thompson Diesel almost exclusively for pump work to this day. I've known that family many years.I'm also not a fan of the newer "Mack" trucks although as good as anything else out there. I've been around them and the older support base far too long and remember the benefits of being within the "Mack family" which is really no longer there. I still run my older stuff part time and that's good enough for me but parts are drying up rapidly for keeping things going.The old driveshaft brake eh? Yeah, those were great at holding an empty parked tractor stationary on level ground but that's about it. Most times you could overpull one of those with a garden tractor... The old 237 engines? What a "hoss" in it's day. Around the St. Louis area as a kid they were all over the place but mostly with five and six speed transmissions. On road use mostly. The old Mack TRQ-7220 "quadbox" , (5&4) trans you mention was a good layout but the torque rise of those "Maxidyne" engines played hell on the mainshaft bearings in them being a single countershaft transmission. I have two of them but not behind "Maxidyne" engines but rather the "Thermodyne" series and really like them. It's getting very hard to obtain parts for these any longer and they used to be so common. The last low range gears I needed Blumenthal's in OKC looked for weeks to find, but were successful after all. An input shaft? Try $1300.00!!!I have a nice original 58 B-61 three axle tractor a buddy of mine pulled off a semi trailer for me onto a loading ramp with a new D9. Not thinking anything about no brakes, it promplty collided with the radiator frame, (tractor was minus "U" frame and blade) of the dozer pushing everything back and busting the radiator on the truck. Not really a problem as I have extra stuff but really don't like consuming parts like this..... I think Leland was about the best bed out there for winch truck work. I have a "Roustabout" bed from them w/10' poles that is going onto my 57 B-61 I've posted up photos of for a welding rig. The full width roller tailboard gets a lot of use once guys get used to having them. I have a 20K Tulsa mechanical winch for the truck and a reversing PTO for the triplex trans installed. Seemingly have everything but time to finish it. I've been around trucks, winches, wreckers, etc. most of my life and still kinda like it. I've dealt with Perfection Equipment for several years for parts on both Tulsa, and Braden with service and pricing being favorable, albiet expensive any way it's sliced.As far as gasoline powered trucks I still have an IH R-190 which I installed a light swing crane bed onto back in the late 1980's and still use occasionally. It is much too rough of truck to put on the road especially after I rolled it onto the left side when a cable parted while loading scrap cars. I just cut the driver's door off which was folded like an accordian bellows. The truck still runs very well with it's RD450 engine. My 51 Mack A-40 is a tandem dump truck and is still used to haul dirt with every now and then. That white R model was setup to pull a folding mechanical neck trailer, (Trail King) also. It is originally from Abilene TX and I've only had it a few years. It does run and perform well for what it is. The original owner kept it around as it was the old dependable truck they could use when the newer ones were in the shop for repair. There is a mechanical Tulsa model "80" winch on it, (100K line pull) and it will part a 1" cable without effort as I know all too well. I don't use the truck as it was meant to be but keep it around as it always starts and does what it's supposed to do. Brakes and drums are thin so it will need work before any type of DOT inspection. I really need to change the transmission too as it howls in the lower three gears; one of these days.....I've had a couple of oilfield floats in the past and that is a good platform to operate with if loading/unloading equipment a lot. Very easy to do especially with air latched fifth wheels. Hell, you don't even have to get out of the cab and that's a dream for a lazy man like me. Most of those trailers are limited to that type use because of the lack of landing gear and not everybody has a winch, or rails setup to pull them, but in the off road, they can't be beat. A winch tractor with two winches, (one for poles, one for lifting/dragging) is the way to go if you have the capacity and length. I don't have a truck with dual winches but have been around them and they are very functional for setting and extracting equipment. A lot of the old timers berate hydraulic powered winches but I favor them. I've rather not abuse equipment and if the hydraulics system is balanced to the equipment, it's just as powerful and doesn't have the capacity to break or explode things. On the plus side you can run a single pto/pump combination so it can be a bit less expensive to set up. If you consider an 18 speed upgrade, look into a 20918B series as they seem to be durable and hold up well in the heavy haul areana. They wear out too but not as quickly as earlier variants. Use synthetic lubricant only even though it's terribly expensive.The "dozer motor" truck, yes it's a 700 series tractor. I don't think you could cram that engine under a 600's hood and have any room in the cab. It is actually a Western "RL" series with aluminum frame and lightweight suspension components. Rust and mud buildup destroyed the cab, but the frame and underpinnings are in decent shape. The engine runs well and I drove it about 400 miles home after purchase. This is another truck with a shot 13 speed, but it's only noisy in the splitter section. I have another spare 1693TA, (actually D-343) in the shop which is a very good engine and am toying with either installing this into another R700 I have, or sticking with the original plan of my 12V-71 Detroit engine calling the truck, "Project R-12". This truck has a 325 Mack V8 engine and it will outpull a NTC-400 Cummins in stock trim consistently. I mean no disrepect to the Cummins engine, but I've been around the V8 Mack engines a lot and this is more normal than exception. If only the Mack V8 engines had stronger lower ends.....I only have the one semi trailer any longer. When I slimmed down my operations I let a lot of stuff go. I'm now near retirement and beginning to become a "bum" as I go to the shop only when I want, answer the phone only when I want, and work on only what I want. It's that having free time thing I'm having difficulty adjusting to but the grand daughters take up quite a bit of that.I am thinking of converting one of my "RL-797" trucks into a rollback type hauler. I had those for so many years it doesn't seem right to not have one around. One of my trucks is long enough I could install a 28' bed with little rework. I already have all the hydraulics needed and may move onto this project over the winter. I'd like to rebuild my A-40 and haul it to truck shows but it seems like a lot of work for a single purpose but whom knows? Here is a photo of the "dozer motor" truck prior to disassembly: And a few of the "dozer motor":And what the hell, a partial shot of the criminals awaiting judgement in "lineup" fashion:
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelineYes, Rick's dad.  I think his name was Perry Harper.  Been a long time ago.   I was in there for the first time in over ten years about a year ago.  Looking for the exhaust pipe piece that connects the pyrometer tube to the turbo on a 300+.  Long story short, I kept blowing turbos up in my '96 Dodge Cummins, had a spare turbo for a 300 laying around, did some fabricating...  Rick has a really sweet B model (61 I think) sitting in there that they restored.  I take it he takes it to shows.I'm not a fan of any of the new trucks.  I havn't driven any of the newer Mack's, but I've driven the newer Petes and Freightliners with the electronic motors, and don't like them... My 3406b will pull with any of them I've driven, and I can work on it.  I don't like the electronic throttles, that when you mash on it it's like it has to consider what you're telling it to do  before it does it...The '68 had the quadbox you're thinking of I think.  The '69 had a straight 5 speed, with a divorced 4 speed behind it.  I think it was a spicer, but not sure.  We also had a '70 model at one time that had some sort of 2 stick triplex transmission.  It was weird until you got the hang of it.   Then a '72 R700 with 13 speed dumptruck and '73 R600 13 speed dumptruck.  Then later we bought a pair of '79 R600's used with 6 speeds.  They were pretty much mates to my '80 model.I wish I had kept my '72 R700 and repowered it with a 3406 or something.  I liked that truck.  In the '80's and early '90s there was a contractor around here, Rollins Construction, that had a R700 with a Dirty Dozen 12v71 in it.  The trippple 6 Koehring hoe on the Mack in my pic, we bought at an auction they had in '85 when they got into major trouble on a big job and had to liquidate some stuff.  We gave $17,000 for it, used it 5 years, then in '90 they called wanting to buy it back.  They offered $28,000 right off the bat.  Dad and I talked about it.  We had just been awarded a big contract to lower all of ONG's high pressure lines for the construction of the first phase of the Creek Turnpike.  we had planned on digging all the deep crossings with it.  Dad said if we sold it back to them, I could pick out the hoe of my choice and we'd buy it... SOLD... They came to get it with that R700.  The driver said it topped out at 58mph, but would "Pull and a$$hole out of hell"...  When he pulled out of the yard, I guarantee he shifted 10 gears before he went 50'.  I think it had a 13 with a 4 speed auxillary.I'm glad you mentioned Perfection equipment.  Are they still out on Reno in OKC?  We always got Tulsa winch parts from Truck Quip after Leland went out of business, but they're gone now too.I need to get my Mack to the shop, and do some minor stuff to it.  If we get this pipeline thing going, I'm gonna need more than one truck.  I've got the tandem lowboy, three axle lowboy, and two 40' oilfield floats still.  And one pole trailer for pipe.  we've also got a Belshe tandem dual pintle hitch trailer I can pull with the Pete.  Or with a dumptruck.
Reply:We have two Durango's.  Or my fiancee does anyway... We've been together for 14 years, so I guess it's we. lol... Hers are a 2000 two wheel drive with 360, and a 2001 4x4 with the 4.7 .  She had been driving the '01 all the time because the a/c compressor started making noises on the 2000, plus the heater doesn't work very good.  Wednesday night, I went to fill the '01 up with gas, as she had DR appointments to take her mom and youngest son to on thursday.  I made it almost to the store, and lost all gears.  My best friend and business partner lives about a mile from there, so we towed it to his place, and I came home to work on the heater on the 2000.  Good flow thru heater core, hoses get hot. Blend door is working, as you can change temp and it will go to completely cold, to kinda warm.  At an idle, the temp out the vents will get kinda warm, but not hot.  It warms up some more if you rev motor to about 2000rpm's.  But if you drive it down the road, it cools off considerably.  I even changed the thermostat because I noticed motor doesn't ever get up to what I'd consider operating temperture.  Still acts the same way.  Even with half the radiator blocked with cardboard, no change...I'm hoping the '01 just lost the torque converter.  When you kill the motor you can hear a "whirring" sound for several seconds from the front of the transmission.  I need to get the ramps done on the lowboy, so I can move it out of the way and get it in the shop to work on it.  I've got my old welding rig that runs fine, and also my '99 that I need to get a transmission back into and a bed on, but she can't drive either one of them because she can't drive a standard...  Only other pickup that I had was an '01 half ton sport that she drove before the Durangos, but we traded it on my new truck in January...I think the auxiliary in the '69 was a spicer.  I know it wasn't a 1241, because in 1989 we had to do some work to it and you couldn't get a lot of the part for it.  I was taking a dozer down by Ardmore to a job, and the thing hung up in 2nd gear.  Dad was following me in another truck, and we got under it thinking the linkage was bound somehow, but never could get it to come loose.  So he told me just to drive it the rest of the way in 2nd.  By the time I got to the job, the transmission was pretty hot.  We loaded it on a float that evening and hauled it back to Tulsa.  When we went to tear it down, I had to cut several of the bearings out with a torch because they were so seized up.  Dad told me whatever I did, not to get into a shaft, because they couldn't find them anywhere.  If I remember right, we could get bearings, gears and seals, but that was it...I know I have some pics of my old 700, but I can't find them.  I'm pretty sure it was a RL711.  It and the '73 R600 were both dumptrucks that we bought at a Ritchie Brothers auction for Flatiron Paving just north of Denver Colorado in about 1988.  I'm not sure what the front axle rating was, but the rear was 44,000 on Camelback.  They had like close to 60 dumptrucks in that sale.  It had a 250 Mack in it.  That was the only 250 I've ever been around, rest being 237's, 285's or 300+'s.The Belshe trailer is a low flat deck over the wheels type, with a pretty long dovetail and ramps.  We bought it in the mid 2000's when we were doing a lot of out of state work for a guy that redid concrete at WalMart distribution centers.  We'd load his Bobcat and breaker in the bed of the truck, then one of our backhoes, several different buckets and a fuel tank on the trailer.  We had a '88 Pete 379 dumptruck at that time, with a 3406b and a 9 Speed.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:I'd try a water control valve on the heater that's not getting hot. Seen plenty of them partially restricted through the year from not going full stroke, or normal cooling system corrosion. It restricts flow through the core and the bit of flow that does make it through the core is cooled till quite useless for heat. The vehicle uses positioning motors in the plenums under the dash and the actuator arms are retained by plastic clips I've seen broken. Some of the arms can jump off their respective stubs, then reattach when the motor reposisitions. Fought a lot of vehicles with similar problems over the years.The torque converters are a fairly well known weak spot as are sticking/worn valve bodies internal. You hearing the "swishing" sound of hot oil is almost a dead giveaway to torque convertor stator breakage away from the rotating case. Lock up type converters are problematic as they age from the factory production level and an aftermarket is a much more robust unit.If you had an R-711 it would have had an ENDT673C engine, (250hp) which was Mack's precursor to the later variants with a lot more power. This was the first series of engine using piston coolers and redesigned oil galleries to support higher internal loading on the parts. The "Maxidyne" and later variants busting through 300hp were descendents of this engine which was very good in it's own right. All a learning curve in those days as the horsepower races were just beginning. When the early "Maxidynes" came out though about 1970 they used to bust the engine blocks through the main saddles from the torque rise of the engine. Really wasn't enough meat in the casting to keep the twist out of it when heavy. This was much more pronounced in vocational type work as opposed to highway service although it happened there also. The typical symptom was wear in the mains prematurely and a bearing roll in was short lived. Used to always inspect the saddles and up about 1/2" into the block for cracks when rolling bearings. I've been wanting a Durango for quite a spell but don't much care for the newer and "refined" ones. I prefer the truck riding first generation. This one belonged to the secretary where my son works and she purchased a new Toyota Hilander and didn't want the Durango in the drive out of the garage. It has everything on it, never smoked in, and is very clean. He won't say what he gave for it so I can't pay him back so to speak. An 8341 series Spicer auxiliary trans is a single countershaft where the 1241 series was a dual countershaft set up a lot like a Roadranger trans. It is much wider than high which is a dead give away to identity. I have a 6231D, (deep reduction) in my A-40 and really like it a lot. One really has to speed shift these little ones behind a gasonline engine as they wind down much faster than a diesel. I have another 6231A, (progressive) but the overdrive gear is burnt in it and I cannot find parts to rebuild it. It really howls but someday I'll find one and get it going again. Belshe always did build some pretty good trailers and they held up well. The deckover types with ramps and long dove were very versitile but around here the tilt top Miller's and Belshe were popular as are "Trail King" of late. I haven't seen a Belshe trailer in use for a few years now and don't know if they are still around.I lost a lot of old photos in both print and electronic versions when my basement office was about 5.5 feet deep a couple of years ago. Sump pump gave out during very heavy and prolonged rain storms. I still have everything but boxes of photos are stuck together, and hard drives have not been repowered as of yet. They may be fine, but I don't know.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobI'd try a water control valve on the heater that's not getting hot. Seen plenty of them partially restricted through the year from not going full stroke, or normal cooling system corrosion. It restricts flow through the core and the bit of flow that does make it through the core is cooled till quite useless for heat. The vehicle uses positioning motors in the plenums under the dash and the actuator arms are retained by plastic clips I've seen broken. Some of the arms can jump off their respective stubs, then reattach when the motor reposisitions. Fought a lot of vehicles with similar problems over the years.The torque converters are a fairly well known weak spot as are sticking/worn valve bodies internal. You hearing the "swishing" sound of hot oil is almost a dead giveaway to torque convertor stator breakage away from the rotating case. Lock up type converters are problematic as they age from the factory production level and an aftermarket is a much more robust unit.If you had an R-711 it would have had an ENDT673C engine, (250hp) which was Mack's precursor to the later variants with a lot more power. This was the first series of engine using piston coolers and redesigned oil galleries to support higher internal loading on the parts. The "Maxidyne" and later variants busting through 300hp were descendents of this engine which was very good in it's own right. All a learning curve in those days as the horsepower races were just beginning. When the early "Maxidynes" came out though about 1970 they used to bust the engine blocks through the main saddles from the torque rise of the engine. Really wasn't enough meat in the casting to keep the twist out of it when heavy. This was much more pronounced in vocational type work as opposed to highway service although it happened there also. The typical symptom was wear in the mains prematurely and a bearing roll in was short lived. Used to always inspect the saddles and up about 1/2" into the block for cracks when rolling bearings. I've been wanting a Durango for quite a spell but don't much care for the newer and "refined" ones. I prefer the truck riding first generation. This one belonged to the secretary where my son works and she purchased a new Toyota Hilander and didn't want the Durango in the drive out of the garage. It has everything on it, never smoked in, and is very clean. He won't say what he gave for it so I can't pay him back so to speak. An 8341 series Spicer auxiliary trans is a single countershaft where the 1241 series was a dual countershaft set up a lot like a Roadranger trans. It is much wider than high which is a dead give away to identity. I have a 6231D, (deep reduction) in my A-40 and really like it a lot. One really has to speed shift these little ones behind a gasonline engine as they wind down much faster than a diesel. I have another 6231A, (progressive) but the overdrive gear is burnt in it and I cannot find parts to rebuild it. It really howls but someday I'll find one and get it going again. Belshe always did build some pretty good trailers and they held up well. The deckover types with ramps and long dove were very versitile but around here the tilt top Miller's and Belshe were popular as are "Trail King" of late. I haven't seen a Belshe trailer in use for a few years now and don't know if they are still around.I lost a lot of old photos in both print and electronic versions when my basement office was about 5.5 feet deep a couple of years ago. Sump pump gave out during very heavy and prolonged rain storms. I still have everything but boxes of photos are stuck together, and hard drives have not been repowered as of yet. They may be fine, but I don't know.
Reply:Kind of hard to say on the heater core. You could solder a 1/4" Schrader valve, (air conditioning charge port) to a donor radiator cap and pull a vacuum on the system while it's full of coolant to deplete the oxygen content of the liquid medium and break the air lock if it exists. I'd limit the vacuum draw to just when the radiator hoses start to collapse and keep a draw constant for about an hour. Any vacuum at less than atmospheric will pull the air lock out.Most R-685 series trucks had a 237 engine, straight five, or six speed, and 4.17 rear ratios. These would run right at 72mph against the high end of the governor unless loaded heavy on tall rubber. 10X20 tires yielded about 66 mph. The transmissions were direct in high gear. Most 13 speeds no matter the brand have overdrive or two overdrives and are pretty good runners. Roadranger's tend to take a lot of work in comparison to a Mack transmission IMO but they are built lighter and smaller internally. It's hard to beat Mack's triple countershaft transmissions, again in my opinion. My 80 R-612 has 3.87 rears and is on tall rubber and will touch 90mph empty "all out". Only a fool tends to drive that fast though. The "Iron Pig" 345 eh? Man, what a good engine for a snow plow truck, or sander and that's about it. Those did the finest job possible of converting gasoline to heat with little to show for it being so underpowered but would run a jillion miles before needing anything but routine maintenance. They were very popular in both the Loadstar's, and Cargostar's before the diesels took the market away from the gasoline powered trucks in the mid 1970's. The 392, and 404 IH engines were about the same caliber but did have a lot more torque off idle and would pull quite well actually. A 175hp DT-466 was still a better puller however.Haven't seen a Belshe trailer in eons so assumed they were gone, or bought up by some other conglomerate and renamed. So many of the towing equipment manufacturers are now owned by Miller industries for example.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Here's a couple of pics of the Belshe pintle hitch trailer.  It's not an optical illusion, the outside tire on the left side is not on it...lolHere is the hitch on the back of the Pete,And a Belshe gooseneck backhoe trailer we used to have...-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Originally Posted by handtpipelineHere's a couple of pics of the Belshe pintle hitch trailer.  It's not an optical illusion, the outside tire on the left side is not on it...lolHere is the hitch on the back of the Pete,And a Belshe gooseneck backhoe trailer we used to have...
Reply:Originally Posted by SlobFlat tires on the trailer, or burnt bearings on the hub the reason being everything is missing on that corner? Those augers look to have a bit of weight to them. Nice risers on the truck frame to the high mount fifth wheel. Good and sturdy along with the roller tailboard should make that tractor really handy with float type, and folding neck trailers. A nice "Tulsa" model 64 winch would be a great addition IMO.  My R795 is set up very similar. What TLB is that, a "K"? I've not been around too much of the newer stuff.
Reply:I have looked at that trailer photo several times and cannot tell there is a wheel and hub assembly on that corner. I've robbed several different trailers or trucks for tires to get a job done many times. Know how that works quite well actually. A "34" Tulsa winch is probably the most versatile of all of them. They are easy to operate and just not too small, nor too big for most jobs. Most of the larger rigup trucks used them as the pole winch along with a "64" for the main drag/deck winch. I've had a couple in different applications and really like both them, and the "19" series being so easy to use. Don't forget between the "64" and "80" is a model "70" also. This is a 65K pull unit and to the untrained eye will pass for an "80". I have one of those too. If I remember correctly they had a little more worm reduction to run slower than a "64" did and used a 7/8ths cable. The "80" on my winch tractor is so large I can barely pay out the cable by myself to pull up a float for example.That tailboard and 5th look sturdy and well built. Good idea to box the wiring runs. They are always giving trouble if left open. If you run that large winch hydraulically, use a close coupled pto/pump combination with a 10,000 series Char-Lynn 29cir motor and you will be in good shape. I think you would need about 25-27gpm flow rate and if you limited pressure to 2K, would seldom have any problems. Most trucks run higher pressure but if it's kept lower there are less problems as the system ages. The guys at Perfection know all that off the top of their heads. Haven't really owned a lot of dirt equipment but did have a 780ck Case TLB purchased when building my shop along with a small D20P Komatsu crawler and 1845C skid steer. I've kept the skid steer and use it often but the other two were no longer needed so sold off. I then purchased a very clean 410B John Deere TLB and wish I would have kept that one being one of the first with the single cylinder out front and only 3100 hours. I think it was an 83 model year but could be mistaken. It was quiet, 4X4 w/extendahoe and ran perfect. The 780 had a clam on the front and that was very useful for most anything I needed from pickup of broken slabs, to tree stumps..... That's about it for my dirt work tools besides a manual spade at times..... Oh yeah, back as a kid, I dug a lot of graves for people with a Drott Cruise Air machine. Just about six swipes and you were off to the next hole..... Never have even ran a trackhoe except a small "Bobcat" rented to trench in a sewer line at the shop property after selling the JD. Haven't needed another since so I suppose it was best.SlobPurveyor of intimate unparalleled knowledge of nothing about everything.Oh yeah, also an unabashed internet "Troll" too.....
Reply:Here's an older pic that you can see the inside tire in...This is after I got the mudflaps on the Pete..This is Rick Harper's Mack...-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion