4G open root butt joint tips

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In my stick welding class this semester we've done flat and vertical open root butt joints as well as flat, vertical, horizontal, and overhead butt joints with a backing bar and I've been fairly successful with all of those.  However, now we've started doing overhead open root and the root pass in that position is kicking my tail right now...looking for any tips for things to try. Basically I have two different problems:Problem #1 is having the arc snuff out while I'm welding along...leading to many restarts and frustration.  Problem #2 is managing to get the bead in without the arc snuffing out but when I look up at the finished weld there are holes down the center of the bead every inch or so....kind of like keyholes that weren't completely filled in.Here's what I'm running and what I've tried:Miller Dynasty 2001/8" Lincoln 6010 5p+3/8" plate with 30 degree bevels, 3/32 gap and 3/32 landPlate positioning: about mid forehead heightBody positioning: I've tried welding across my front, away from myself, and towards myself. Seems welding towards myself is the best for being able to see the unwelded joint and keeping the rod angle correct, but what I don't like is not being able to see the keyhole very well since the rod gets in the way.Travel angle/rod manipulation: I've tried going in perpendicular to the joint and stuffing the rod way down into the joint, dragging as I go....I can see the tip of the rod burning off like a pencil....seems to penetrate nice on the back and fill in the root but after an inch or two the arc keeps getting snuffed out for some reason. Holding a longer arc and dragging lets me finish the joint without snuffing out the arc but leaves those holes in the bead.  Whipping (which works great for me on 3G) results in the same kind of bead with holes.Amperage:  I've run as low as 68 amps and as high as 80....more amps does not seem to help with the arc snuffing out when I bury the rod.Really the only things I haven't changed are the land and the gap.  Also I haven't tried a lot of side to side oscillation, just whipping along the direction of travel or dragging.  My instructor has told me to run more of a drag angle (to keep the molten puddle from catching up and snuffing out the arc) and to try and get my head somewhere where I can watch the keyhole..."look through the rod" as he says.   I plan to try this next week in class, but I am now wondering also if going to a 1/8" land and 1/8" gap will help?Thanks in advance for any pointers you guys might have.Miller CST 280Lincoln PowerMig 180 DualEverlast PowerTig 185 Dual Voltage Hypertherm Powermax 30 XPVictor Medalist 250 Torch rig-Local 602-
Reply:Does the Dynasty 200 have Dig? If so turn it all the way up. Hate to tell you this, my Dynasty 300 plain sucks with SMAW.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I believe it does have a dig function, never messed with it though.  I'll take a look next week when I get to class, thanks!I did get to weld with a hobart stickmate the other day....have to say I like how it welds much better than the Dynasty units we have at school.Miller CST 280Lincoln PowerMig 180 DualEverlast PowerTig 185 Dual Voltage Hypertherm Powermax 30 XPVictor Medalist 250 Torch rig-Local 602-
Reply:Try exaggerating the angle of the rod for dragging. If your whipping stay in the puddle a little longer. Don't be in a huge hurry to get back to it. You will have to adjust your amps accordingly.  Experiment and don't get discouraged. Find someone in your class that has the technique down and hang out with them till you get it. If you have the choice switch to an Inverter like an Arcon Workhorse, Powcon or a Miller XMT 304 or 350 cc/cv. Engine drive would be the greatest welder ever...................the Lincoln SA200. All these welders are excellent for what your doing.Arcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:On my V350-Pro I run the arc force / dig at +9.5, if I go any higher it changes the voltage. On my Everlast 300 I turn the arc force / dig all the way up for open root. I don't think I've ever done a 4-G open root with 6010.With pipe I use a 7/64” drill bit to set the gap. Once the pipe is tacked up the gap pulls in to about 3/32”. I use a very small land, maybe 1/32” to 1/16”. If the gap is to big, I point the rod back on already deposited weld. If the gap is closing up on me, I point the rod forward to cut into the gap. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by blawlessTry exaggerating the angle of the rod for dragging. If your whipping stay in the puddle a little longer. Don't be in a huge hurry to get back to it. You will have to adjust your amps accordingly.  Experiment and don't get discouraged. Find someone in your class that has the technique down and hang out with them till you get it. If you have the choice switch to an Inverter like an Arcon Workhorse, Powcon or a Miller XMT 304 or 350 cc/cv. Engine drive would be the greatest welder ever...................the Lincoln SA200. All these welders are excellent for what your doing.
Reply:Thanks for the replies and tips all.  I'll play with the dig function and rod angle and see how that plays out.  Might also try repositioning myself so I'm looking at the weld a little more from the side so I can see the puddle/keyhole better.Miller CST 280Lincoln PowerMig 180 DualEverlast PowerTig 185 Dual Voltage Hypertherm Powermax 30 XPVictor Medalist 250 Torch rig-Local 602-
Reply:I think your hand position is off , and you have to move as the rod burns down ,that causes you to have thoses gaps .position your self so that you can burn the rod length before you have to reposition . start the keyhole and listen to the sizzle. I was just guessing there as I can't see your grip or your stance from here.gxbxc
Reply:FWIW,~John
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcI think your hand position is off , and you have to move as the rod burns down ,that causes you to have thoses gaps .position your self so that you can burn the rod length before you have to reposition . start the keyhole and listen to the sizzle. I was just guessing there as I can't see your grip or your stance from here.gxbxc
Reply:Just think Ronin8002, by next week you'll be doing open root pipe welding with 7018.  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Does the dynasty do AC Tig? I'm not to familiar with them. I thought that was what they were mainly for. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.  Originally Posted by Showdog75The Dynasty is a inverter. I agree with CEP on turning dig wide open.
Reply:Originally Posted by blawlessDoes the dynasty do AC Tig? I'm not to familiar with them. I thought that was what they were mainly for. Maybe I'm thinking of something else.
Reply:I haven't used my Dynasty for SMAW in ages. I would turn the dig all the way up for the root pass. Then for the hot, fill, and cap maybe go back down to 30%. This way you will get a more flowing puddle.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I feel it's tougher to put a consistent root across an overhead plate than on pipe.  With the latter you put your tacks in on a cold pipe.  Clean it up and then start on that tack and almost immediately you start coming up a side.  Gets easier to hold your inside buildup when it's stacking on itself.  No such luck with plate.  Right away the plate heats and your root buildup will want to flatten.  A while back I played around with some overhead plate.  I found after a couple inches, any convex shape I had would flatten.  Wouldn't be a problem except I was intentionally trying to keep it up there.  I decided I was trying to stretch my rod too far.  Using sloppy 3/32 gap and land, around 70 amps.  Forced myself to slow down, slightly longer fill time, so in overhead I was trying for only 2.5"-2.75" travel per rod.  Definitely better visually.First pic root flattens, more consistent in second pic. Attached Images
Reply:Goin to agree that dynasty sucks for 6010. They do not work well when burrying the rod in the joint. I would say try a more exaggerated rod angle and turn up over 100 with dig wide open with a penny gap and land.  Not sure what amperage I run on my vantage but it's 42 on my remote puts me about 125. All the guys I work around run hot and fast. Well over 100 amps for the root. Sa 200 in 4th and 55 on the remote. Have to remember most 200s put out lot more than 200 amps. Some inverter type machines do better with the rod straight into the weld. Just depends. Side note on flat root when over head. A little more land with more amps will make the root stand up a little better. If there isn't enough metal to hold what you put in it will sag.
Reply:Update:  I tried maxing out the dig for my root pass and it worked great!  Was able to jam the rod into the joint and pretty much just let it burn , watching for the keyhole to close behind it as I went along.  Ended up staying with a 3/32 land and gap.  75 amps seemed pretty good, might bump it to 80 next week to see if I can get a little bit more reinforcement on the back.  Found I was using a whole 6010 rod at 75.  I found that setting the dig at 50 worked well for the filler and cover passes with 7018.  Just need to work on my cover pass weave a bit, I'm stepping too far forward each time so it looks kind of ropey.  Running the full and cover with 3/32 rod at 85 amps.On 3g I found the same dig settings worked well, but ran the root at 70 and use a small whip pattern.  Fill/cover are 85 amps with 3/32 7018 and I am happy with how those come out, like I said just need to make my overhead fill/cover look like that.Thanks for all the tips, really helped me out of this rut.