Welding expert schooled me

admin

Today a guy came over to buy my old welders, I demo the machines and then his turn came OMG the guy welded like chit. I started out with a haynes welding handbook from autozone long time ago and this guy went to college, WTF ? How does this happen ? Anyways the guy and his wife were a nice couple, he came with his own helmet & gloves looking like an expert, even had a fancy helmet bag and all. Don't get me wrong I am not bragging but damn I thought going to school made you some kind of bada$$ ?  I got schooled on how schools are full of chit around here if they can't teach that poor guy how to weld.Anyways here is the picture of the bead I did and I wasn't even trying and I didn't even clean the piece since it was just a demonstration of the machines working order and capabilities, The burnt holes are from the professional.  .0195 aluminum, 34amps wards welder with Hi freq, 4043 filler. He did worse on smaw !!! in the end he was polite and didn't give me chit or low ball me so I gave the guy $100 discount plus some tungsten to help him out on his journey.  oh yea I learned how to weld 6010 on AC  but then again I am not a professional Attachment 877561
Reply:When dealing with all the college grads in the company I worked for. They always wanted to tell me how to do it better. I just look them in the eye and say I don't understand, come out in the field and show me how to do it. There are millions of bar room bridge builders out there.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Sadly there are probably a lot of programs out there that are sub par as far as quality. I saw plenty of nonwelding classes like that when I went to college. Usually stuff like this happens in art departments and other elective type classes where the school feels that for liability reasons they should have some sort of program and they hire someone to run it, whether or not they can actually weld or teach.Just because some one is a great welder, doesn't automatically make them a great teacher. I've also seen plenty of guys who can do a great job of basic instruction for students, who themselves are at best mediocre welders. Some instructors excel in one area, but aren't as good in other areas. Some few rare ones are not only excellent welders, but are great instructors in all areas as well..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I still talk to my college professor once and a while ...he runs his own business  doing in house certs and qualifications for welding company's You would never pass his class as a sub par welder in lab or class roomBut he said the college program is a joke now and so is the instructor ...the college is just taking in money and do not care about the industrial arts part of the curriculum....A lot of the students drop out after the first month most of the time anywayBesides anyone can say they went to college ( i liked going to the commissary at lunch to look at the girls too )  ....But did they pass the course under a competent instructorBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Maybe it wasn't the welding school that was full of chit, did ya ever think it might have been the person?   1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:i don't know if its schooling or just the attitude of the young these days. they lay down one good bead and suddenly they are the best welder there ever was. AND i love hearing from college grads how they can't get a job because they are overqualified. laughable. in manufacturing, education is useless without experience and on the job knowledge'14 HTP invertig 221Thermal Arc 201ts'15 HTP 2400'13 Hypertherm Powermax 30Esab 875Esab 251Clark Metal Servicespecializing in stainless steel exhaust systems
Reply:I can't tell you how many of my customers have friends who, "used to weld for NASA" (I honestly get this phone call every other month). but they didn't know enough to sandblast the carbon off of a stainless steel exhaust before attempting to weld a crack, they couldn't figure out why it wouldn't weld for them, so it must be titanium or something....  '14 HTP invertig 221Thermal Arc 201ts'15 HTP 2400'13 Hypertherm Powermax 30Esab 875Esab 251Clark Metal Servicespecializing in stainless steel exhaust systems
Reply:The guy came prepared with PPE to test the machine so he wouldn't get ripped off and bought a machine so he could get more practice.I think unless you're welding .020 aluminium everyday, your bound to blow through.Didn't try to lowball, sounds like the ideal buyer.
Reply:That is a large part of the welding school program , businesses just wanting to fill the seats and collect a check  especially the one who offer student loans . There instructors for the most part have to be college grads , not real world welders , they don't walk around or help you when you are struggling. I went to a hole on the wall school run by a disabled steam fitter . "NO" heat in winter , used to grab a used coupon and run a half dozen rods on it to heat it up .That way I warmed up the machine and heated to booth a little . But I do under stand there are some good welding programs up in Canada  in the trade schools . So what do we do here in the states . we give are kids a half a$$ education ,tell them they need to go to college to learn what they should have learned in 9th and 10th grade . Vocational programs nonexistant  in most large urban areas.Then the businesses want to bring in foreign skilled workers. Sorry for the long winded rant gxbxc
Reply:Originally Posted by gxbxcThat is a large part of the welding school program , businesses just wanting to fill the seats and collect a check  especially the one who offer student loans . There instructors for the most part have to be college grads , not real world welders , they don't walk around or help you when you are struggling. I went to a hole on the wall school run by a disabled steam fitter . "NO" heat in winter , used to grab a used coupon and run a half dozen rods on it to heat it up .That way I warmed up the machine and heated to booth a little . But I do under stand there are some good welding programs up in Canada  in the trade schools . So what do we do here in the states . we give are kids a half a$$ education ,tell them they need to go to college to learn what they should have learned in 9th and 10th grade . Vocational programs nonexistant  in most large urban areas.Then the businesses want to bring in foreign skilled workers. Sorry for the long winded rant gxbxc
Reply:...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:From a different thread: Originally Posted by AKweldshopIs it just me, or is this video childish and stupid??I wonder why comments are disabled??
Reply:Ok. My 2 cents here. Not to bash anybody, but 4 years ago I was running 2 and a half miles of 24 inch pipe on a big irrigation project. One of the guys that wanted to help out was a local college instructor. He brought some excellent booth weld specimens and had 12 different certs... he lasted 4 days. The real world thing, he flat out could not do. Trenches, Dirt, etc wasn't in the cards for him. And he really couldn't weld pipe either. OTH, this kid showed up with a dinosaur Bobcat and jumped right in, He just maxxed out everything on his machine and hung in with the rest of us. A week into the project I bought another Trailblazer just so I didn't have to listen to that screaming bobcat. Gave it to him when we were done.
Reply:If you're near California's Central Valley, I'll jump in the ditch in the summer. I'm not super great at 6g roots on small pipe, but I'm getting better. I'd love to hop on a pipe crew and learn from people who actually know what they're doing. 24" pipe sounds like funTeach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechIf you're near California's Central Valley, I'll jump in the ditch in the summer. I'm not super great at 6g roots on small pipe, but I'm getting better. I'd love to hop on a pipe crew and learn from people who actually know what they're doing. 24" pipe sounds like fun
Reply:Just an observation. The education field is controlled by people chosen for their jobs because of who they know, not what they know. Sometimes the administration of a vocational school would prefer to run an art school, but didn't have the connections to get that job. Now it is their job to hire qualified people as instructors. After they hire all their non qualified friends because they consider them loyal, there may be a few jobs available for qualified instructors. Sadly the administrator wouldn't know how to recognize qualified instructors.They don't have paperwork to qualify for the job, but hire CEP or Zap to head the hiring committee in trade schools. The students they graduate will be better qualified. In apprenticeship training, instructors are chosen in a very different way.
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechFrom a different thread: kinda sums it up
Reply:In the last century I attended a high school in the business of prepping students for college. To have a "shop" program at all was something they did begrudgingly. From the alumni philanthropists, to the board of directors, headmaster, and even teachers believed working with your hands was equivalent to failure. Only students expected to fail were allowed to take "shop". The one "shop" teacher was hired because of his connections with a benefactor. He was a failed self employed carpenter, and a dud as a "shop" teacher. He had a phobia of power tools, allowed only a few of us who pretty much ignored him and used them anyway to use power tools. The building was equipped with donated Powermatic woodworking machines, dull and out of adjustment therefore useless. He had lots of club nail hammers, wood rasps and sanding blocks. A donated engine machine shop sat in an area where junk was piled. There may be vocational programs that work, others don't even try!
Reply:Right on Willie!!
Reply:I have to say trades programs in Canada are much better. They have the same schooling in many provinces and use the same textbooks etc. Certification is the same nationwide.
Reply:Originally Posted by sausage450rI can't tell you how many of my customers have friends who, "used to weld for NASA" (I honestly get this phone call every other month). but they didn't know enough to sandblast the carbon off of a stainless steel exhaust before attempting to weld a crack, they couldn't figure out why it wouldn't weld for them, so it must be titanium or something....
Reply:Originally Posted by sausage450r... "used to weld for NASA" ...
Reply:Sad thing, but true.  Welders are pretty much a dime a dozen.  It's a case of too many people trying to get into a trade that's full up.Manufacturing jobs have dried up, white collar jobs have dried up, and the country is rapidly descending into third world status.  So people are grasping at straws, and the schools are preying on that desperation.Same same with the truck driving schools."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by sausage450rI can't tell you how many of my customers have friends who, "used to weld for NASA" (I honestly get this phone call every other month). but they didn't know enough to sandblast the carbon off of a stainless steel exhaust before attempting to weld a crack, they couldn't figure out why it wouldn't weld for them, so it must be titanium or something....
Reply:Originally Posted by sausage450rI can't tell you how many of my customers have friends who, "used to weld for NASA" (I honestly get this phone call every other month). but they didn't know enough to sandblast the carbon off of a stainless steel exhaust before attempting to weld a crack, they couldn't figure out why it wouldn't weld for them, so it must be titanium or something....There's a lot of "bar stool mechanics" too.Talking to them it sounds like they can fix anything.Then they come to your shop and they barely know how to reverse the direction on a ratchet.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThere's a lot of "bar stool mechanics" too.Talking to them it sounds like they can fix anything.Then they come to your shop and they barely know how to reverse the direction on a ratchet.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopThere's a lot of "bar stool mechanics" too.Talking to them it sounds like they can fix anything.Then they come to your shop and they barely know how to reverse the direction on a ratchet.
Reply:This has been an interesting read. I know in Alberta at S.A.I.T (Southern Alberta Institute of Technology) All the welding Instructors have to do weld tests before they are considered to be hired. All processes and all positions. At least when you get a demo you know what the welds should look like.
Reply:Originally Posted by teachagmechFrom a different thread: kinda sums it up
Reply:She's a foreign exchange student, or maybe a mannequin. Either way they do things different.
Reply:"2. Is it my imagination or was the young lady is wearing open sandals (after all the "safety" talk)?" Most certainly not your imagination!!! There's a hint of her footwear at 16:31.... no question at all she's wearing flip flops at 35:18 (gasp).MM 211Smith Tru Lite O/A set, Thanks Bob!Lincoln AC-225--But you must not change one thing, one pebble, one grain of sand, until you know what good and evil will follow on that act. The world is in balance, in Equilibrium- Ursula K. Le Guin
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BThey didn't claim to be rocket scientists.
Reply:It's a lot easier to kick a red hot BB out of your flip flop than a steel toed work boot.
Reply:Ummm.... is your knowledge based on personal experiences?  My steel toed work boots have definitely seen better days. I admittedly have had to replace a pair of shoelaces because of a red hot bb but.... I'd still rather weld in them no matter how much I love running around in flip flops over the dog days of summer.MM 211Smith Tru Lite O/A set, Thanks Bob!Lincoln AC-225--But you must not change one thing, one pebble, one grain of sand, until you know what good and evil will follow on that act. The world is in balance, in Equilibrium- Ursula K. Le Guin
Reply:Some leather work boots have a synthetic flap around the tongue. BBs will burn through them easily. Once in the boot, finding vacant space to kick them into until they cool off is a challenge!Friday night my friend had a broken plow point I welded. He was interested in the process with pre heat and oil hardening. I noticed his Carhardt pants were frayed at the bottom but he wasn't welding. I didn't mention it.  I noticed light from the floor, glanced over flame was starting up his leg! Note to self: "trim off the frayed stuff at pants bottom.By the way, he plowed two acres Saturday dragging up some 500 LB rocks without it breaking! Don't tell me MIG welds are weak.
Reply:There's a product called "Fabric Fusion" I get in the fabric / sewing section of Wally Mart that works great for mending the frayed areas on Carhartts (and other coveralls and jeans).  When you notice a frayed area starting you squirt a little on and work it in with your fingers and it will keep it from continuing to fray further.  It's also good for gluing on patches to cover larger areas.   Unlike some other things I've tried it survives subsequent washings and stays flexible.
Reply:Willie B> My understanding is that it takes a lot of practice to better ensure one has a functional weld using a MIG but it can be done. I know some of my welds (non-structural) have failed and I had to grind them out and start over. Me thinks you have many many more moons of "practice" than me!!!--HT2-495> I sew. Thanks for mentioning 'Fabric Fusion'. I've been using a product called 'Fray Check' that has "survived" wash cycles but it didn't do all that well when used to glue down patches.MM 211Smith Tru Lite O/A set, Thanks Bob!Lincoln AC-225--But you must not change one thing, one pebble, one grain of sand, until you know what good and evil will follow on that act. The world is in balance, in Equilibrium- Ursula K. Le Guin
Reply:Originally Posted by EquilibriumWillie B> My understanding is that it takes a lot of practice to better ensure one has a functional weld using a MIG but it can be done. I know some of my welds (non-structural) have failed and I had to grind them out and start over. Me thinks you have many many more moons of "practice" than me!!!--HT2-495> I sew. Thanks for mentioning 'Fabric Fusion'. I've been using a product called 'Fray Check' that has "survived" wash cycles but it didn't do all that well when used to glue down patches.