Dining table legs

admin

I'm new to the forum but I've lurked quite a bit and tried to learn as much as possible.I started a woodworking project that has turned into a metal working project and I'm brand new to both.  My wife found a dining table online she wanted that would have cost around 3k with tax and shipping and I, like a moron, said, "I can make that."  So six months ago I started.Here is what she likedSo started with thisTo thisTo thisTo thisThen I welded legs out of 3/16".  Which in retrospect was WAAYYY too thin and has too much lateral movement.
Reply:On to my problem.  My welder is a lincoln weld pac 100.  And I have read a thousand times on here is way too small to weld anything realistically over 1/8"  But like a stubborn, moron I am I tried it.I picked up material that consists of 1/4 inch plate 22"X12" and legs of 3/8" 28" x3" width.  With 1/4" support on top and bottom.  Like this pic, but with the new material.I started the weld today after getting a new liner rated for .035 wire.  This is my first time using flux core and no gas.  I beveled the 3/8" and left a Nice V gap, and pre heated the steel with a torch first.  Then I laid beads.  This pic is the third pass, I didn't think to get a pic of the root pass, I know it's sloppy but I've welded maybe 8 times in my life.InsideAfter it cooled I took a small sledgehammer and a scrap piece of wood and beat the piss out of the leg every way I could think of with the 22X12 plate clamped down.  I checked for square after and nothing had moved.  Will this be acceptable to hold this table?  It weighs around 180 lbs.Sorry for the long post, I was trying to give as much info as possible.
Reply:Nice looking table there. Very nice job on the wood work.As far as the welds go, they are ugly, but they should hold that table well as long as you aren't doing stupid things on the table. ( Let the wife dance on something else and save the extra curricular activities for the pool table... )  If the whole table weighs 180 pounds, that's only like 45 pounds per leg. I'd be more worried about the flex in the legs than the welds letting go for this application..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:3/16 Had a ton of lateral flex.  I don't think 3/8" will.  If it does I'll add support.  I know my welds are ugly lol, I know they'll probably end up in that crappy weld hall of fame thread, but as long as it will hold... I have found a new thing I love doing with welding, and I'm looking at some certification classes near me.  Maybe my GI bill will pay for it!
Reply:I know the VA helps out with costs on classes for vets at the tech school. but I'm not familiar with all the details.You'll be really happy when you get to run a machine with more power. Overall your welds don't look that bad, but they are definitely cold and it's obvious the material needed a bigger machine to do a good job..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Nice table top...really nice. Yea, the welder is a bit tiny. That said, an experienced welder could... possibly...with some good meticulous prep work...maybe scare some multiple passes and maybe make it all stick together ok. But cleanliness, weldspeed, beadplanning etc. must all all be at their best to pull it off. I'm willing to bet that lots of us began welding with underpowered machines but got 'er done ok. My personal suggestion for a 110 volt wire feeder...should you come into a spare 600 clams...would be a Miller 140. I'm sure you'll get much advice momentarily!
Reply:[QUOTE=USMCSergeant;2188911]On to my problem.  My welder is a lincoln weld pac 100.  And I have read a thousand times on here is way too small to weld anything realistically over 1/8" Im not trying to be a jerk but you answered your own question. I personally would reweld with a more suitable machine and not be concerned about failure.BTW  That table top is a work of art!Thermal Arc 210 FabricatorHypertherm PM 45and lots of other tools the wife doesn't know about
Reply:You're right Rkott4, but you're underestimating my stubbornness.  HAHA.  I don't think you're being a jerk and I appreciate your advice.  But I'm just determined to get this done this week and I honestly have no access to a bigger machine or a 220 connection.  In the future I am looking at the bigger millers and will probably pick one up.  I'm practically drooling over one.Appreciate the comments on the table.  It's been a massive job and I've flattened it with only hand tools and hand planers.  Cut the bowties in with a chisel, and made my own dowels when I connected all the pieces together, which makes me even more proud of it.  I just wish my welding skills were there.  At the moment I supervise a 911 center, the pay is decent and I've moved up into leadership quickly.  But honestly I'm tired of sitting on my rear end everyday and I'd like to work with my hands.  Hopefully I can enroll for this springs welding course and get my certs.
Reply:USMCSergeant, where are you located?  It's quite possible that someone here would let you come over to their shop to use a more substantial welder if you're near them.  I know I would.--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Central NC, Near Greensboro.  Reminds me I should edit my profile and put that info in there...
Reply:Ive seen alot of ugly furniture from welders on this forum. Yeah, they can fuse metal together and pass x-ray but they would starve as a furniture designer. You adequately covered your bases with your limited wood and metal experience, limited equipment and your wife riding you to follow through with your "promise" after uttering the classic welder line of "I could do that ...". That said, I think you did a fvcking killer job.
Reply:You are one stubborn jarhead, comes with the territory I guess. Beautiful wood work and done with hand tools it is stunning to see how good it is.You did just about everything I can think to squeeze the welder to its max.  One addItional thought is to run the welds uphill.  Takes some practice and skill, but it helps use every bit of heat you have.But, my God, you could not have made the process harder.  I gotta say it again - you are one hardheaded jarhead!    I'm glad I live in the US of A.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jimmy_popIve seen alot of ugly furniture from welders on this forum. Yeah, they can fuse metal together and pass x-ray but they would starve as a furniture designer. You adequately covered your bases with your limited wood and metal experience, limited equipment and your wife riding you to follow through with your "promise" after uttering the classic welder line of "I could do that ...". That said, I think you did a fvcking killer job.
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJYou are one stubborn jarhead, comes with the territory I guess. Beautiful wood work and done with hand tools it is stunning to see how good it is.You did just about everything I can think to squeeze the welder to its max.  One addItional thought is to run the welds uphill.  Takes some practice and skill, but it helps use every bit of heat you have.But, my God, you could not have made the process harder.  I gotta say it again - you are one hardheaded jarhead!    I'm glad I live in the US of A.
Reply:Great work, brother.  Yep, have him buy you a welder with more balls, or just do all the fitting and tacking with the 100, then rent a machine.-Aaron, USMC 1992-1996Jet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:You should also think about designing legs that will work better using thinner stock that the 100 can handle easier.Look at the saw horses- thin plastic- and probably way more stable than what you have with the 3/8" steel legs.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:That's a great looking table!
Reply:Top's pretty nice but that style doesn't do it for me. With the SP100, why not make the legs out of 1x2x .105 or .120 rect tube?  That would have actually been more proportional / attractive for that scale top.
Reply:Right guys, and I've told my wife a different design would be much more stable.  But if you think I'm stubborn you've seen nothing until you've met this woman.  HAHA.  I'm almost positive that using 3/8 will make it stable, If I'm wrong I'll change the design and add a crossing support out of 5 inch wide ambrosia maple halfway down the legs.
Reply:hehe, stubborn men almost always get more stubborn wives...they're the only ones willing to marry us! If you were in WA, I'd let you come to my shop and use my equipment.  Great work by the way, that table top is beautiful...although I'm not showing it to my wife because she'd want me to build one!--Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:Thanks wintermute, I appreciate it.  Ready to get this project done and in the dining room.  Hopefully with a couple of days off this week I can get some finish on the table and the legs complete.
Reply:Originally Posted by USMCSergeant...  But if you think I'm stubborn you've seen nothing until you've met this woman.  HAHA...
Reply:Just one thing for long term survival of the wood top would be to keep the lag bolts down the center line of the table and slot the holes in the base for the side movement as the wood will expand and contract over time. you wont want to over tighten the outer lag bolts "snug is good" as they need to be able to move.  If the wood cant move it may or may not check "crack and split" or even warp against the steel.  Pre-drill all of your holes and skip on the cheep screws as they can break, you can lube the lages or screws if you choose to use them with bar soap or a bit of wax which will help to keep them movable over time, they might need adjustment over time.
Reply:Example: The workbench in this issue is 24″ wide. The annual change in moisture in our shop is 3 percentage points (12 percent minus 9 percent). The top is mostly Q/S yellow pine (the numbers from the chart are .00176 and .00263).So our equations are:Q/S: 24 x 3 x .00176 = .127″ (about 1/8″)F/S: 24 x 3 x .00263 = .189″ (about 3/16″)– Popular Woodworking Editors; Illustrations by Matt Bantlyhttp://www.popularwoodworking.com/tr...-and-expansion
Reply:Originally Posted by nikodellJust one thing for long term survival of the wood top ...Originally Posted by Fabn4FunExcellent advice niko!  Probably not needed by someone sophisticated enough to do decorative dovetails ... however, its necessary for any of us new enough at combining real wood and metal for furniture we want to last!
Reply:When I had the first set of legs on I pre-drilled slots around 1/2" and put the screw in the center of the slot allowing for some movement with humidity changes,  I couldn't bear to see that top crack.  LOLNever thought about bar soap on the screws, great idea.  Thanks.
Reply:Legs welded, and painted.It took a lot of prep and several passes for each joint with pre heating, but they are solid joints.  Each time I welded a joint I tested it with a 5 pound sledge and they all held.  The legs are much more stable, no wobble, and weigh considerably more than the previous set.  It's going to work great.Table is almost done as well
Reply:Table is finished, finally.  Legs are square, straight and very stable.
Reply:What did you use to finish the wood top?
Reply:you're a double threat bro ... wood & metal. awesome work! hope your wife did a triple backhand spring into reverse cowboy in appreciation of your quality work.
Reply:USMCSergeant - I just picked up a live edge slab of maple to make a desk with and really like the design you used for the table legs. If your still checking in on this forum, I'd be interested to know how well the 3/8" bar stock has held up for you and if you have found you needed more bracing or not.ThanksKevin.http://www.lsfdesign.comMiller Millermatic 211 MVPMetcal STSS-002
Reply:Super nice work. I wouldn't worry too much about the welds. I think you did the best you could with what you have. Just don't have sex on the table, I think you will be ok. Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler