Weldanpower 150 low voltage

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Just purchased a weldanpower 150 and I have no knowledge of generators besides simple understanding of magnetic fields and such. It is a code 8127 which doesnt have a manual on lincoln but the slightly newer models seem the same. It also hass a briggs motor which I think was replaced because the first layer of paint is yellow. It is model 252416 type 0185-01Let me start by saying it runs just fine and produces power and welds. Its just a little low on the output voltage 115v is at about 90-95v and 220v is at about 195v. This isnt too bad and like i said it actually powers tools and welds.If I am going to give this thing a make over then this will be top priority. So far from searching around my guesses are either governor isnt set right or the magneto is old/failing? I had a heck of a time just getting it to run smoothly at idle mainly because I know nothing about small engines but this forum got me dead on the right track so now thats fine. I am not sure about the governor though. I found a quick how to on setting it to its original specs by loosening it and holding it clockwise and turning the screw clockwise then tighten it. This didnt fix it. I think there may be a spring missing there is only one spring in the back. I have no idea what any of the other levers and screws and such do on the governor.If I manually rev it higher then the governor allows it will put out higher voltages but I am worried of over revving it for extended periods. Maybe I should have the rpms checked at a local shop? Or maybe its the magneto?Sorry for writing so much just trying to provide as much detail as possible. I can provide pictures if needed.Thank you in advance
Reply:I dont know much about the 150 at all, but duaneb55 will. I am sure he will chime in soon on the subject.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...hey+farmersamm
Reply:Yeah I know hes the man to see. I missed that post though thank you I am going to check it out right now.
Reply:Ok I have ruled out a few things and think I may have a possible culprit. During my initial trouble shooting I dismantled all electrical connections and cleaned all contact points, figured that could only help. Obviously it didnt fix the problem. Today I went back and dismantled the capacitors and the brush circuit and tested everything. All capacitors seem ok by checking ohm resistance it flashes toward 0 and comes back to infinity. Flashing diode seems to check out although I am not an expert. One site said if it has a low resistance one way and 0 the other then it should be fine. That checked out and I had a dc charge of about 8.5v(at idle) across the diode.Right now I'm thinking it may be my bearing in the front. Its pretty noisy and I know thats a sign of it wearing out but how bad I am not sure. I fixed a dishwasher motor one time by replacing the bearing and that was noisier then this. I think I noticed the inner parts sagging a bit aswell I will have to recheck but I am sure thats a sign of a bad bearing.It just boggles me how a poorly tuned engine or a crappy bearing could have such an effect. I mean if its still running at 3600 rpm shouldnt the output be the same no matter what the other factors are? Still not sure if its at the right rpm though.Thanks for the help so far I read that whole post and it got me where I am now. I know this is a really simple design and theres not much that could be wrong but its still kinda tough when its totally foreign and that little voice pushing you in the right direction can really get the ball rolling
Reply:Skeluhtor,Congratulations on the new acquisition.  This http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM287.pdf should be the manual for your unit based on the code you listed.The bearing issue aside, you may be onto the cause of the low voltage in you statements regarding the engine speed.  Are you able to confirm the proper 3600rpm?  Another check would be frequency which should be 59-61hz but requires a frequency meter to check.As for your capacitor check, that's a good quick test but inconclusive as to its actual capacity and a 'weak' unit could still be part of or the total cause of low voltage.  But start with the engine rpm first as it's the most common cause.Have you checked the weld output OCV (open circuit voltage)?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Oh yeah, and that yellow color may just be the B&S primer.I'll post up a few shots of the governor linkage in a little bit too.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Some shots of the B&S governor linkage.  Hope they help and that governor lever adjustment is VERY sensitive and any adjustment needs to be very, very slight.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Wow thanks a bunch Duane  I am gonna check some of this stuff out. I noticed the yellow primer in your post The voltage across the lead contacts at full throttle is 50 solid in all settings. I read that this is low I think you said yours is about 75. That is another thing that makes me think its engine related. Because by my simple understanding of the welder, shouldnt the welding circuit be seperate from the plug outputs. In the sense that they are operating on seperate secondary coils? Meaning a drop in boths output would point to something that can effect both.I am probably wrong but the plugs seem to be operating on a differant circuit branching off at the brushes and the welding circuit picks up at the secondary coil. So I am at a loss as to how the capacitor and flashing diode can effect the welding power unless the capacitors are somehow integrated to handle spikes and valleys in the welding current. Also I dont have a hertz meter.I think my best course of action right now would be to have a small engine shop take a look at it to see the rpm's. That shouldnt cost much and I can handle the normal tune up stuff. Maybe they will have a hertz meter.I have taken some pictures to show you my governor setup and everything looks the same besides me missing a tension spring on the adjuster knob. I have no idea what this knob adjusts and I played with mine a little to get an idea but I still dont know(could it be max rpm?). My knob without the spring just moves around and rattles like crazy. That cant be good  Also I thought maybe there should be a spring on the green line in the picture but after seeing yours I guess not.Sorry for crappy quality I only have a camera phone. I through in a pick of the welder overall. Not too bad once I get it in top shape. Even has electric start. Attached ImagesLast edited by Skeluhtor; 05-31-2010 at 02:17 PM.
Reply:Your take on the welding and auxiliary power output is spot on.  They share a common rotor but seperate stator windings.The flashing diode prevents high voltage backfeed into the engine circuit once the alternator develops output power.  The flashing voltage from the engine just provides initial rotor exciter field voltage to kick things off.As with the output power, you're 100% correct on the capacitor function and a bad capacitor can and will affect field voltage but my money is on engine speed.The adjusting knob is to adjust the high idle speed and it should have a spring between it and the bracket to keep it tight.  That governor spring looks a bit stretched out so my guess is it's too weak to achieve proper high engine speed.  It's pretty typical on older engines and one of the first things I replace as part of getting one in order.Taking it to a reputable engine shop may be a good idea if you're not familiar/comfortable with messing with the throttle/governor linkage.  Keep us posted either way.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Well I loaded this thing into my little 2 door hatchback knowing I would have to bring it to be looked at and I need to use it this week for a job. These pics will make it into the mobile welding rig thread at some point when I have all my other tools loaded up for a picture Then I decided to call around for this quick easy setting of the governor. Two places wouldnt even look at it for less than $50 and I had to leave it there for a week. One of those places told me to go somewhere else after I mentioned it wasnt just a generator but also a welder. For all intents and purposes that has nothing to do with any repairs this guy would have done. I found one guy willing to let me just pull up and have him look at it on thursday but I left out that its a welder.I have decided to just order the springs and a tachometer to do it myself. This is just rediculous. I can get a tach and the springs for around $50 and just sell the tach on ebay for near what I paid and end up only spending like $5. I also dont look forward to trying to get this thing out of my car unless I absolutely have to So right now my dilema is what tach to get. The toss up is a vibra tach or a tiny  tach I am leaning more towards the tiny tach it seems really nice. I can mount it and it will also start counting the hours of use(after 20+ years of who knows how much use).Tiny tach = http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Hour-M...5408951&sr=1-1 Attached ImagesLast edited by Skeluhtor; 06-01-2010 at 12:41 PM.
Reply:In lieu of a tach this is what I use to confirm frequency and would suggest getting.I bought mine on-line but they're supposed to be available at Home Depot nowhttp://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...1&marketID=212MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Great thanks Duane every dollar I can save is a dollar earned right now   So what hertz should I be aiming for 60?
Reply:Nevermind I just went back and watched your vid. Thanks for all the help I will keep you posted on progress.
Reply:If you plug a regular wall clock into the 115 outlet and time it with another clock, it will tell you if rpm are running fast or slow.The motor that is in the clock is locked to the frequency of the power to it.
Reply:This is either a joke or a very ingenious idea. None of my digital clocks have motors sadly. All of my analog clocks run on batteries. A quick google search shows analog 115v clocks go for $100+ maybe I should break into a school. Are you suggesting this would work with digital clocks? I am sort of at a loss for words. I am trying to figure out if the time involved in wrapping my head around this and pulling it off is worth it. Maybe If I get really bored I will give it a shot This must be why clocks have to be reset every now and again due to minute fluxuations in the electricity supplied. Reminds me of how clocks at the top of a sky scrapers are slower because "time" is slower the farther out you are on the earths radius.
Reply:I sincerely would like to thank all parties winvolved in helping me and a special thanks to Duane. Everything seems to be tip top shape now. I got an assorted pack of springs at home depot and managed to replace the weak one and put one onto the adjuster nut. I also picked up a hertz meter. The weak spring was the main culprit as Duane said. There really wasent a completely ideal spring in my assortment but I managed to modify one that was alot sturdier so I am not too afraid of the modifications failing. Only thing is maybe it idles a little higher. Now I get a solid 60hz give or take .5hz and about 120v. The welding leads read 75v. It also sounds alot happier.I am really happy and gratefull for all the help. I will post pictures of the quick repair. I will also post some pics of it when I clean it up and give it a quick coat of paint. Also plan on replacing outlets. Tune up can wait everything looks fresh on it
Reply:That's great news!  Good job on the fixand thanks for the update. On that idle speed, the yellow arrow is pointing to the low idle adjusting screw and you should be able to reduce the idle speed by turning it out counter-clock wise.  Either that or the tab (above the idle adjustment screw) on the manual throttle control needs to be bent toward the screw to assure it forces the throttle back to properly seat the screw to the stop.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!