Employee " habit" that vexes me .......

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How many business owners out there have an employee/ employees that work for you that are doing a satisfactory job ( IE. show up on time, work their full shift/day, do commercially acceptable work) but always are bugging you about more money/raises.....Now on hiring day I go over these particulars ( raise in one year if your working out, vacation time,etc.) Well , about 1/2 the time , like clockwork as soon as they get a raise.....BAM !!!!!!!! I notice the employee now starts working less hours ........ Very perplexing and can't see / comprehend the mind set.......Looking for anybody else that is in business that has gone thru this phenomenon ????????
Reply:Sounds familiar. It's just human nature I think. If you find a cure, you'll be a billionaire.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:How big of raises are you giving?Is it at the inflation rate, 5%, 10%, higher?More money a individual earns, the higher their utility curve.The more financially comfortable an employee is, the less they want to workI like the carrot and stick approach - raises just high enough to keep them motivatedSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Are you hiring?The raise in one year seems a little lame to me. It seems to me in a matter of days you would know if a guy would be worth anything.I have never seen this phenomenon. I have heard of people working fast food demanding more money and when they get it they want to work less to keep their welfare.
Reply:A friend of mine was over a shop in Tennessee I think they gave raises up a certain point then they gave bonuses depending on your working ability. That way the wages didn't get to far out of control. Every once in a while they would go down to the meat market and get stakes for everyone and a case or two of beer and have a cook out. Just my thought.  JohnSent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikThe raise in one year seems a little lame to me. It seems to me in a matter of days you would know if a guy would be worth anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikAre you hiring?The raise in one year seems a little lame to me. It seems to me in a matter of days you would know if a guy would be worth anything.I have never seen this phenomenon. I have heard of people working fast food demanding more money and when they get it they want to work less to keep their welfare.
Reply:As an employer, I'd be looking at more like 30, 90 and 120 days for a look see. Start slow, little wage tips up or at least an "attaboy" if they work out, outahere if not.  Then annual review/raise is acceptable. Encourage the good ones and ditch the bad ones stat. At one of my former jobs, I would wander into the front desk and greet the guard at 2-3-4-5 in the morning. Depending on the circumstance, I was either getting back from a road trip or going on one. Either way, the guard was pleased to see that he wasn't the only one who was working at that hour."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikI have heard of people working fast food demanding more money and when they get it they want to work less to keep their welfare.
Reply:I give people a $1/hr raise after 30 days. I figure the first 30 days is their training period, after that I say raises will be based on performance. I have work orders the employees take and when they complete them they sign and date it. That way I have a way to track their performance. I find it usually only takes 1 strict talk to pick up the pace to get them back on track after they slow down. I find employees will slow down the pace after a certain period of time, but they usually also are more productive then as well since they now have a routine, or found little short cuts here and there. Guess it depends on the job though.John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:When I had workers they were paid an hourly rate plus a by the piece amount. The best welders were always the lowest paid because they worked both slower and less hours. They also were the biggest complainers. The worst welder in the shop was Jim, he always had the biggest paycheck even tho his return rate was the highest.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Probably should have a performance based piece work pay system that kicks in after a trial period that is added on top of a base pay.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:my workers get $25.00 a week plus room and board. no one ever complains.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by docweldermy workers get $25.00 a week plus room and board. no one ever complains.
Reply:for me i have always been of the mindset move up or move on.  work should be rewarded, the best pay system is piece work... but only works in certain situations. but, that was as an employee.as an employer, employees wages start low-ish and rise to a competitive rate. after being hired a review/raise done at 30 days and goals set, the next review/raise date based on progress (more frequent for fast learners/ achievers).  all positions should have a top dollar value and raises by inflation. have a maximum raise amount per review (.50-1.00$) big jumps in pay lead to your situation. employees should not discuss pay outside of their review, make that clear, it distracts from work.  it used to be thought your paycheck is all the 'thank you' that you need. but that's not how it works, wage is a small part of a productive work force. for more important in this 'I'm offended' age is for management to make an employee feel valued. they work for you, they want to know your working for them.
Reply:early in my career i worked a place that had a piece work bonus system and i did ok. now that i'm not as spry as i once was i'm not sure how i'd do. my current boss is of the opinion that his worker's evaluation comes every second thursday. guy's that do the bare minimum go home at 3pm. worker's that show some initiative get to stay to 11pm. due to some contractual issues i haven't had a raise in 6 years but was able to add almost 50% to my yearly wage in ot this year.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorHow many business owners out there have an employee/ employees that work for you that are doing a satisfactory job ( IE. show up on time, work their full shift/day, do commercially acceptable work) but always are bugging you about more money/raises.....Now on hiring day I go over these particulars ( raise in one year if your working out, vacation time,etc.) Well , about 1/2 the time , like clockwork as soon as they get a raise.....BAM !!!!!!!! I notice the employee now starts working less hours ........ Very perplexing and can't see / comprehend the mind set.......Looking for anybody else that is in business that has gone thru this phenomenon ????????
Reply:One shop I worked at as a mechanic, there was a sign for customers.   "You can have your vehicle repaired Fast, Cheap, Right.  You get to pick 2"  it seems to apply here too.   If pay is based on rate of work, employees will find places to cut corners.  If it's based on quality they will take more time to do it right,  If you pay crap, they will waste time and probably cut corners too....Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I have never asked for a pay raise, if I don't get one and I need more money, or someone offers me more, I move on.I have always moved directly from one job to the next, don't know what I would do if I was ever unemployed.
Reply:Smooth, I've tried various methods of incentive's for employees in different businesses.  In the shop fab type of business I've tracked the work by job number. Since the employee payroll was tied to the job numbers in the accounting system it was easy to associate individuals with projects due to their job no.'s on their time cards.This allowed me to declare profit sharing by the job. If a job was bid for X (or was T&M) and the company made Y or Z profit... I could share some 'piece of the action' with the employees involved.  Since any job that came back, required rework or was subject to QA and acceptance by the client would show that in the job# profits on the books, I could then share that info with the guys and let them know if they were in the green or just breaking even?However, I do notice that some people don't react well to this type of stimulus and seem to 'put their feet on the desk' and cruise instead of try to earn more by working better?So I decided to make the profit sharing annual not monthly, that way a man had to stay the entire year to share in what job#'s were profitable.  It was interesting that every single employee that left because of that year long delay were the most 'disposable' part of the crew.Another firm, well known nationally, does a similar method of 'raises'. They pay about 70 to 85% of the 'going' wage and ever 5 years they share their profits over the entire nationally organized company. Recently in our area of Alaska this firm handed out $100,000 bonuses for the last 5 years and there are   not   that many people planning to leave this company in the near future.So, I think there are two parts to this discussion for small shop employers (<50 people) one is the term of employees' service and the second is what motivates any given employee.  In terms of time, I'd like to see the long haul people rewarded more than the 'movers' since I made more from the trained people and had to afford that high initial cost myself. Then, I'd like to make the reward over longer term so that I could operate as a business with that money to take on bigger jobs before turning it over to the guys who helped earn it. So the longer term reward encourages longer view, and helps the contractor to have some capital on hand to improve the scope of work.One other thing to consider is that the whiners aren't often the best long term workers and whining "sea lawyers" are kind of a cancer on attitude in a shop.  When I was working hourly, before starting or owning the businesses, I'd just get up and walk out on that malarkey.  I did drag up from more than one shop where the conditions weren't what I wanted to put up with, but I'm damned if I'm taking a man's money and then snivel to the others about him when he's not there. Like someone else said, if you solve this... you've made your mark.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:If you told me my first raise was a year out, the interview would be over.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by tracymobilecncfor me i have always been of the mindset move up or move on.  work should be rewarded, the best pay system is piece work... but only works in certain situations. but, that was as an employee.as an employer, employees wages start low-ish and rise to a competitive rate. after being hired a review/raise done at 30 days and goals set, the next review/raise date based on progress (more frequent for fast learners/ achievers).  all positions should have a top dollar value and raises by inflation. have a maximum raise amount per review (.50-1.00$) big jumps in pay lead to your situation. employees should not discuss pay outside of their review, make that clear, it distracts from work.  it used to be thought your paycheck is all the 'thank you' that you need. but that's not how it works, wage is a small part of a productive work force. for more important in this 'I'm offended' age is for management to make an employee feel valued. they work for you, they want to know your working for them.
Reply:Originally Posted by Showdog75I'll never work for anyone that's worried about me discussing my wages with another employee. I hate the top secret attitude of employers like this. If your good to your employees when they talk you shouldn't have to be worried or feel as you have to hide something.
Reply:I only take jobs where pay rises are part of the contract, its usualy 2.5% twice a year, in may and november, and i dont pester about pay rate, either its acceptable or it isnt, using pay rate as a carrot is poor form as i see it, treat employees well, allow them to take theyre leave if leave is part of the contract, if they dont perform down the road and look for somone else
Reply:Originally Posted by Showdog75I'll never work for anyone that's worried about me discussing my wages with another employee. I hate the top secret attitude of employers like this. If your good to your employees when they talk you shouldn't have to be worried or feel as you have to hide something.Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorHow many business owners out there have an employee/ employees that work for you that are doing a satisfactory job ( IE. show up on time, work their full shift/day, do commercially acceptable work) but always are bugging you about more money/raises.....Now on hiring day I go over these particulars ( raise in one year if your working out, vacation time,etc.) Well , about 1/2 the time , like clockwork as soon as they get a raise.....BAM !!!!!!!! I notice the employee now starts working less hours ........ Very perplexing and can't see / comprehend the mind set.......Looking for anybody else that is in business that has gone thru this phenomenon ????????
Reply:About the only thing that really irked me, was a boss that was a smoker and he would let guys that smoked take about 15 minutes off every hour or so to take a smoke.By the end of an 8 hour shift they would have worked 2 hours less than whoever they were working with.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueweldersAbout the only thing that really irked me, was a boss that was a smoker and he would let guys that smoked take about 15 minutes off every hour or so to take a smoke.By the end of an 8 hour shift they would have worked 2 hours less than whoever they were working with.
Reply:Originally Posted by small_e_900You mean you've never taken a second-hand smoke break?
Reply:Smooth,is it possible moral is just generally poor around your place?  Established employees might be pulling down the newly hired movers and shakers.
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorlike clockwork as soon as they get a raise.....BAM !!!!!!!! I notice the employee now starts working less hours ........
Reply:Originally Posted by JaxSmooth,is it possible moral is just generally poor around your place?  Established employees might be pulling down the newly hired movers and shakers.
Reply:Originally Posted by OxfordBy working less hours, do you mean being at work for the same amount of time just doing less work or physically being there for less hours during the week?  If they are actually leaving and going home, how many hours a week do you expect your employees to work?
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorTypical situation guy works 40 hrs. Steady no absenteeism ....... Gets raise and BAM!!!!!! Starts working 32 hrs. / has to "leave early" 36 hrs.  Will be in "late" 38hrs. .........Etc..........Etc....... How I am usually informed about this " problem" is the timekeeper gets pissed off because it's extra time to figure the wages/ deductions......Instead of just duplicating the 40 hr. workweek.......
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorTypical situation guy works 40 hrs. Steady no absenteeism ....... Gets raise and BAM!!!!!! Starts working 32 hrs. / has to "leave early" 36 hrs.  Will be in "late" 38hrs. .........Etc..........Etc......
Reply:my first welding job was with a company that went out of business in 09, i busted my but to be a model employee, pay was better than what i was making at the old job, benefits were better. but it was the environment that i loved! my first and every paycheck was hand delivered to me with a handshake and thank you from the VP, never seen a place like that before and sadly i have not seen a place like it since. i was happy to take the low starting wages because i felt appreciated at work, my attention to detail (im a little ocd) was noted and appreciated. i had never been as much as a minute late, and wouldnt think of calling in. when i start my shop here in the near future, i am planning on using that company as a model for how to treat employees. i was always surprised when i hear people gripe about the job i loved it, i love welding and fabrication, and i quite enjoy getting paid to do it.i started at 12 an hour there and though my hard work and attention to detail i was making 19 by the time the company went out of business, 6 month merit raises, profit sharing, and amazingly cheap benifits (looking back) made me want to beat production and not have quality issues..there will always be those that want to skate by doing the minimum possible. in a 120 day period you should be able to spot those employees and should weed them out early, and the employees that want to do a good job should be nurtured. i have a list of people i have worked with that will be the first people that i would call if i was in a place to hire. we stay in touch. and there are those that i worked with that should rethink their career choices and are not good workers ( i dont keep in touch with them)sorry for rambling hope this helps
Reply:I run a vertically integrated dairy farm with my brothers. This means we have employees that are farm labor, processing and manufacturing, and retail. Some get salary + year end bonus, others get hourly + bonus, and others just get hourly. The bonus system is a great incentive to keep people motivated to work because we base it on personal job performance and the performance of the business. Raises are based on performance, not how long you've worked here. The person who does a rock star job for the first few months would definitely get a raise, but if their performance seemed lacking after the raise, their bonus shrinks. This applies to all workers, and we have a number of employees that have been with us for 20+ years, so I like to think that we're doing something right. As the employer, I think I spend 1/2 my time keeping workers motivated to do the job to my standards. This does not mean I try to make them happy, because happiness and motivation are two different beasts. Often they just need to know that their concerns are valid. During the summer, we have around 100 high school and college age part time employees. They just want a paycheck or a letter of reference. Part timers get raises for doing their job and having the flexibility to cover other shifts. If you show the desire to work, we will pay you more. If you're just another body, don't expect much more than minimum wage.Lincoln Precision Tig 185Lincoln Power Mig 256Hypertherm PM 45Everlast 140STSmith O/A
Reply:AS an employee I have to say that I have always worked to the best of my ability on any job I have ever had. The only employer I ever had a problem with was a drunk and if he had money in his pocket he did not care if we did. I was his shop foreman after 3 months of working for him. He would change his mind more than I changed clothes. He got to the point where he was peranoid that I was trying to steel his business away frm him so he fired me.  In reality all I was trying to do was find work for the guys when he was too drunk to care .  I will say that when I find a job I am always looking for a better one but I always do my best even if I am not happy. I do not like liars and the fastest way for me to leave a job is to lie to me or break a promise without talking it over with me first. I have left jobs without even having another job because of lies.  I also do not like to work for someone I have no respect for.  The way they treat customers or other workers, their wife, I look at all of it and if I determine that they do not deserve respect , they get none from me. By that time my departure plan is already in the works.
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorThat's funny rite der!!!!!! All of them claim to be innocent too, I bet.....
Reply:Originally Posted by manningAs the employer, I think I spend 1/2 my time keeping workers motivated to do the job to my standards. This does not mean I try to make them happy, because happiness and motivation are two different beasts. Often they just need to know that their concerns are valid.
Reply:Originally Posted by OxfordThat is a problem if it is more excessive than the normal instances that teh603 mentioned, although if it were me I would offer to make up the time if needed.  If your shop gets slow, do you find "busy" work for your employees so they can get their 40 hour work week or will they sent home early or laid off?
Reply:Originally Posted by SmoothOperatorThat's another pet peeve I have about employees/ business..........A lot of winter months things will be slow....so I tell employees..." Hey we have a break in the action, if you need some time off for outside commitments nows the time to do it." Of course nobody has anything to take care of.......This year we have three big jobs to knock out by April.....Where's everybody at ????? Dental cleanings , moving relatives , and on and on......
Reply:just for a little perspective from the opposite end:equipment operator i work with who doesn't get a whole lot of "operating time" because we dont need much on our side of things, started getting schmoozed by one of our internal managers. he manages a demolition company that is a part of us, but treated as a different company. different trucks, different people "in charge", but same yard.so naturally, demo work doesn't often require the technical skill that underground does, or at least that's my assumption, but DOES require a willingness to really bust some a$$. whether at midnight, 3 am, 24 hr shifts, doesn't matter. the demo guys work tons of overtime, and get a lot of it because their trucks are to be returned to the shop nightly. rarely take home vehicles like we are used to on our side, so they get paid drive time on top of things.so anyway, the funny story goes, "listen dave, we cant pay you near what your making now, but just think of the overtime!"     "how much overtime?"     "all you can take!"     "so less time from my family, and a pay-cut to boot? the %%%% do i wanna do that for??"     "well, THE OVERTIME!! you could make so much money, annually."     "why dont you shove your pay-cut and overtime deal up yer a##, cause it sounds pretty sh%%%y to me"moral is, most the work-force wants to work less for more. thats the dream. i used to beg for work when i was just a wee little earner, i NEEDED 60 hrs per week. i got my raises, and unfortunately a reputation. i was the "guy" for a long time that would get called to weld while knee high in fecal matter on sunday till i quit being so ambitious. dont get me wrong, i work every single second im asked too (solid 55 hrs last week actually), i still take pride in hearing "we really need you this weekend", but i most certainly dont go around looking for it anymore.if i were still scraping by and looking for second jobs in the few hours i would take off, I'd be one grumpy grey-haired old fart at the ripe age of 27. i know it may not be totally relative to your guys, who seem scared of 40, (i HATE less than 40, even if the accounts will still be fine), but, it may be a glimpse of the mindset.guys that want to make every penny possible are called successful business owners. guys that want to make enough to put clothes/ food/ and a decent house for their family and still be able to go camping on the weekends are called successful workers.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmanjust for a little perspective from the opposite end:equipment operator i work with who doesn't get a whole lot of "operating time" because we dont need much on our side of things, started getting schmoozed by one of our internal managers. he manages a demolition company that is a part of us, but treated as a different company. different trucks, different people "in charge", but same yard.so naturally, demo work doesn't often require the technical skill that underground does, or at least that's my assumption, but DOES require a willingness to really bust some a$$. whether at midnight, 3 am, 24 hr shifts, doesn't matter. the demo guys work tons of overtime, and get a lot of it because their trucks are to be returned to the shop nightly. rarely take home vehicles like we are used to on our side, so they get paid drive time on top of things.so anyway, the funny story goes, "listen dave, we cant pay you near what your making now, but just think of the overtime!"     "how much overtime?"     "all you can take!"     "so less time from my family, and a pay-cut to boot? the %%%% do i wanna do that for??"     "well, THE OVERTIME!! you could make so much money, annually."     "why dont you shove your pay-cut and overtime deal up yer a##, cause it sounds pretty sh%%%y to me"
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmanso anyway, the funny story goes, "listen dave, we cant pay you near what your making now, but just think of the overtime!"     "how much overtime?"     "all you can take!"     "so less time from my family, and a pay-cut to boot? the %%%% do i wanna do that for??"     "well, THE OVERTIME!! you could make so much money, annually."     "why dont you shove your pay-cut and overtime deal up yer a##, cause it sounds pretty sh%%%y to me"moral is, most the work-force wants to work less for more. thats the dream. ...if i were still scraping by and looking for second jobs in the few hours i would take off, I'd be one grumpy grey-haired old fart at the ripe age of 27. i know it may not be totally relative to your guys, who seem scared of 40, (i HATE less than 40, even if the accounts will still be fine), but, it may be a glimpse of the mindset.guys that want to make every penny possible are called successful business owners. guys that want to make enough to put clothes/ food/ and a decent house for their family and still be able to go camping on the weekends are called successful workers.
Reply:I wish that more companies would realize that "life" cannot always wait until after 5 pm, or be fit into an hour's lunch break -- don't give your good employees crap over the occasional unanticipated problem, and they'll reward you with loyalty.  Give them $hit when they're already down, dealing with personal issues or just daily hassles, and they'll resent it. Originally Posted by teh603Change to a timecard where the employees can tally their own hours per day based on the time stamps, so the all the timekeeper has to do is check their counting? Or a system where you enter the time stamps and let a computer do the rest of the work?I know that's probably not the "best" answer, but sometimes things happen. Life throws even "live to work" employees monkeywrenches sometimes. Doctor's appointment in the afternoon for something minor that could become a more serious problem if ignored, parent-teacher conference about why Susan keeps trying to murder the boy next to her, truck has a CEL and it's inspection time, stuff like that just can't always be put off until after close of business- because those businesses close at the same time the shop does.
Reply:Pay your workers better than they can get anywhere else in your industry and treat them right.  You will have the best ones lined up at your door waiting for someone to leave.  Set a high standard for the amount and quality of work and hold them accountable for the results.  If they don't satisfy the standard let them go.  Remember there are others already waiting to go to work for you because of your reputation for high wages and fair treatment.
Reply:Oh yea, Henry Ford gets credit for the 40 hour work week when in 1914 he scaled back the work hours from 48 to 40.  The unions had nothing to do with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawOne shop I worked at as a mechanic, there was a sign for customers.   "You can have your vehicle repaired Fast, Cheap, Right.  You get to pick 2"  it seems to apply here too.   If pay is based on rate of work, employees will find places to cut corners.  If it's based on quality they will take more time to do it right,  If you pay crap, they will waste time and probably cut corners too....
Reply:I had one of them thar jobs once. the boss call me inot his office and was  given me aditude like why are you only here four days week. l told him I just couldn't make it on three