Coolant for TIG welding

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What kind of coolant do you use for your water cooled TIG torch?  Will automotive coolant work?  (the regular ethylene glycol fluorescent yellow kind or the long life orange/pink propylene glycol type?)  The Miller branded coolant is $25-30/gallon and they offer a regular and a "low conductivity" type.  Does anyone what the difference is between all these types and whether the Milller specialty is any different than automotive coolant?  In my location, I don't need freeze protection so that's not a consideration.The only coolant related problems I can think of is the coolant being too electrically conductive and bleeding off the HF start voltage and/or the the coolant forming deposits or precipitates blocking the water passages.Electronics Engineer (embedded controls)Miller 200DX w/ Coolmate 3Thermal Dynamics 82 plasma cutterGrizzly G0678 8x30 millPM1440BV 14x40 latheHF 6x12 surface grinder
Reply:I do use about 15% auto antifreeze. They will tell you not to, but it has worked just fine for 3 years now. i just keep adding water as it evaporates, and about 2 times a year, I pour it into a container, and strain it back into the cooler.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I will add to Rojo's reply with this; Distilled water"SOUTHPAW" A wise person learns from another persons mistakes;A smart person learns from their own mistakes;But, a stupid person.............never learns.
Reply:Gosh,Not like this is a NEW QUESTION.Did the OP even consider trying the "search" feature?Did the OP read his owners manual?  The little section that states that the use of automotive coolants will void his warranty on the Coolmate 3?Automotive antifreeze is NOT recommended for use in a tig cooler for a multitude of reasons, HF only being one of them.Why do people even consider trashing a $600 cooler and a $200 torch by not buying the recommended coolant (about $20/gal at Miller4less).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Good catch papabear; I do use only distilled drinking water. Sundown, I recently pulled the whole mess apart, and after 3 years of the same coolant in there, the brass in the torch has no buildup, and no radical heat distortion. So, maybe the cooler co. just wants you to buy their brand, for an extra 75%???No high frequency, or Harbor Freight issues with my welder yet!!And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:i worked in a shop that had ~25 tig machines and the ran them all with 30% green auto antifreeze and regular tap water. they worked just fine and some of those coolers were old as dirt. although i would put distilled water in my personal machine
Reply:Missed the OP's comment about "not needing freeze protection".After just changing out my antifreeze last week since we were due for temps in the 20's I just figured "everyone needs freeze protection".With no requirement for freeze protection, I'd recommend distilled water with an anti-algae additive.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWith no requirement for freeze protection, I'd recommend distilled water with an anti-algae additive.
Reply:More damage is caused from the crap inthe water than anything, so mix with either demineralized or distilled water.Dexcool is preferred as it is formulated to minimize electrolosys in dissimilar metals, green antifreeze will work.Mix the stuff in a clean bucket and pour it into the machine through a coffee filter to remove the sodium silicate that was put in the antifreeze to plug small holes in the automotive system.Been working well for over 40 years now on my machine.
Reply:What kind of question is this?  What kind of "coolant" should I use in my "water cooled" torch?
Reply:Originally Posted by Old Fart pour it into the machine through a coffee filter to remove the sodium silicate that was put in the antifreeze to plug small holes in the automotive system.
Reply:That (the anti-leak additives) and the fact that automotive antifreeze is highly conductive, bleeding off the HF for the torch.Just too many different formulations of "auto anti freeze" for me to take a chance with.  I'd rather just spend the $20/gal or so and get the "recommended solution".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:[QUOTE=SundownIII;348330]That (the anti-leak additives) and the fact that automotive antifreeze is highly conductive, bleeding off the HF for the torch.BULLCRAPThe primary and most prevelent additive is sodium silicate, and that ain't conductive!The overpriced crap Miller peddles is nothing more than food grade antifreze with a Miller label on it.  What the hell do you think was being used for years before Miller and other manufacturers discovered the WELDERBATER market would buy anything they peddle?
Reply:Prestone Dexcool and most of the long life automotive coolants (not the yellow ethylene glycol types) are supposed to be free of sodium silicate.  I plan to just use Prestone Dexcool with a 50/50 distilled water mix.  I'll test with a multimeter when the adapter arrives and see what the resistance of the line filled with automotive coolant is.  My guess is the resistance will be so high as to have no effect.I stuck multimeter probes into a fresh 50/50 solution of Dexcool held an inch apart.  That read about 700K ohms.  Tap water read about the same.  Reverse osmosis filtered water read about 3000K ohms.  700K ohms is very slightly conductive and seems unlikely to affect HF.  (For reference, 120V across a 700K ohm resistance would draw about 0.0002 amps.)The effective resistance will also be much higher in the system because of the length of the lines.Last edited by Zac; 01-08-2010 at 02:36 PM.Electronics Engineer (embedded controls)Miller 200DX w/ Coolmate 3Thermal Dynamics 82 plasma cutterGrizzly G0678 8x30 millPM1440BV 14x40 latheHF 6x12 surface grinder
Reply:Automotive antifreeze, has a finite lifetime.The green type uses silicates to prevent corrosion, but after time, those will precipitate out of solution and close up small passages (read, inside of torch head).  Flushing and replacement every couple of years should prevent this.  Other additives could still make this conductive.Dex-cool uses an "OAT" organic acid, to prevent corrosion.  That sure is conductive, and I've heard that it can scum up in small passages over time.  Again, change it every couple of years, and it should stay good.As for conductivity.  HF uses insanely high voltages.  Megaohm resistances can drain off significant amounts of your HF power.  700k ohms is actually low.  Think about the resistance of spark plug wires here.I don't know how that would affect HF though.  I personally use an air cooled torch.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanAutomotive antifreeze, has a finite lifetime.The green type uses silicates to prevent corrosion, but after time, those will precipitate out of solution and close up small passages (read, inside of torch head).  Flushing and replacement every couple of years should prevent this.  Other additives could still make this conductive.Dex-cool uses an "OAT" organic acid, to prevent corrosion.  That sure is conductive, and I've heard that it can scum up in small passages over time.  Again, change it every couple of years, and it should stay good.As for conductivity.  HF uses insanely high voltages.  Megaohm resistances can drain off significant amounts of your HF power.  700k ohms is actually low.  Think about the resistance of spark plug wires here.I don't know how that would affect HF though.  I personally use an air cooled torch.
Reply:For everybody who read too damn many fool posts on leaking hi freq;  The machine was built to be hooked to a public water supply and still provide a sufficient amount of hi freq to establish an arc.Now where in hell is the electric service to your shop grounded to?  That's right folks, the public water supply, the world's largest ground network.  So, you're concerned about leaching hi freq off to where via antifreeze in an isolated torch/cooler loop, WHY?Hi freq on a torch is ar RF frequency, and you loose a lot more by laying the cable across a concrete floor.  Then there are quarter wavelength losses, and inductive losses from coiled leads.Are you under the impression TIG was invented in 1995?  We been running this process since the 60s, long before ITW bought Miller and Hobart Bros and whored both product lines out.  Green antifreeze worked in 1960 and it still works today.  Sodium silicate is a suspended solid in antifreeze, let it set a few years and look at the bottle.  All the suspended solids will be on the bottom, and they are about 1/4 of the volume.Then again, what the hell do I know after 50 years of welding?
Reply:Obviously not much.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:This is another one of those it doesn't matter what anybody has done for the last 50 years without problems cases.  Why?  It doesn't matter what you do, chances are you will not have a problem.
Reply:Like red devil says,   I hate to admit it, but the antifreeze mix should be fine.   In my lil episode, tonite turned out fine, but I was worried when I found the cap frozen.  I had a hybrid mix of distilled H2o and 2% antifreeze.   And its been below freezing here for two weeks and my cooler has been idle the whole time. No problems yet....but yeah my chiller is in the kitchen weld it like you own it
Reply:Not trying to start a flame war here, especially since Old Fart generally gives good advice and seems to know what he's talking about.The problem is that simply recommending that a user just use "automotive antifreeze" or the "green stuff" leaves too many options.  Some of the automotive antifreeze solutions use anti-leak addititives which can cause blockage problems in the small passages in the water cooled torch.  Some of the mixes ARE highly conductive and WILL bleed off HF.  Bottom line, using other than the RECOMMENDED solutions is a crap shoot.  One I'm not willing to risk for the few dollar difference between auto anti freeze and the recommended solution.When buying a new car/truck, I generally follow the manufacturer's recommendations for the type oil/anti-freeze/lubricants to use.To quote from page 4 of the Owner's Manual from the Miller Coolmate 3:"Use of any coolant other than those listed in the table voids the warranty on any parts that come in contact with the coolant (pump, radiator, etc)."I don't know how much clearer they could be.I buy my coolant from Miller4less for <$20.00/gal (including shipping and no tax).  Wal-Mart sells Prestone for about $13/gallon.  For something I change about every 3 years, I'm not willing to take the chance to save that little.You own the cooler, you own the welder, you own the torch.  Use whatever freaking coolant your heart desires.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I've seen clogged lines and buildup from using automotive coolant, we run the factory recommended stuff here, I'm not going to try and save $10 only to void warranty and possibly have problems down the road.
Reply:30 years !!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes 30 years 2 Tig machines 2 coolers Green Prestone and distilled water. Never changed, just added to when it got low. The only reason 2 machine the first one went bad and was to expensive to repair the machine not the cooler. We have a large spot welder that was using tap water running down a drain and we coverted it over to a Bernard cooler set up. The same way about 15 years ago Prestone and distilled water never had a problem.As mentioned above this all we had to use. If i bought a new coolmate I would follow the owners manual recommendation just for waranty sake and bitch about the price.Just my 2 centsMiller 330 A/BP Bernard SS coolerMiller cst 250Miller Big Blue 251DCentury 210 Mig (first welder I bought)Hypertherm PowerMax 800Victor torch setRu Fong 31 MilAtlas lathe
Reply:I just got a cooler for my Miller.  If a cooler had been running automotive coolant and I wanted to switch to the Miller coolant, should I flush it with distilled water to purge the system?  I can attach a hose to the input and output fitting and let it run for a while I guess.  Any suggestions?  ThanksFredMiller 330 A/BPDynaflux R1000 coolerLinde HDA-300 HP-18 torchHobart BetaMig 251Hobart Handler 135 Campbell Hausfeld 80P&H 181 Arc Century 295 Arc Hypertherm Powermax 900 Plasma cutterSeveral Oxy/Acc torch and tanks
Reply:Probably not a bad idea, and clean the strainers afterwards. I knwo this is an older thread, but I actually had a BAD experience with Millers coolant a few years ago. It managed to grow more algae than I have even seen, clogged and destroyed my weldcraft MT125 torch ( tiny passages ). It was a year old, and apparently did not have an additive package strong enough to fight off growth in my climate if the torch was used rarely. Our work equipment has run on silicate free automotive coolant for upwards of 30 years, and I have done the same in my own now for the past 5 with no issues, no growth, no clogs ( even the MT125 ). My Dynastys seem to not notice. Perhaps its a duty cycle related problem. Just my experience.It's amazing how many of you go to different welding sites and claim the exact opposite or a complete different line of BS. If any of you had a brain you would find out what is in the 25.00 a gallon super juice as sold by whom, a welding manufacturer. Dexcool is exactly what welding super antifreeze juice is. Lower alkalinity, Contains NO silicates, resulting in longer lasting water pump and engine seals; longer shelf life. It is Nitrite-, borate-, phosphate-, nitrate- and amine-free. 100% biodegradable in its pure unused condition. It has extremely low conductivity, no acids and is made of ethylene glycol with NO stop leak additive. You can pay 25.00 for Miller welding coolant if you want to. It's like buying bottled water. I don't buy bottled water which is the same crap that comes from your tap. To think differently is just displaying your ignorance. Dexcool mixed with softened water, distilled water or RO water will perform as well or better then the US welding manufactures super coolant juice. I invite anyone to prove me wrong. Show me a torch or cooler that has been compromised in any way by using soft water and Dexcool. In my opinion, being forced to use a welding manufactures expensive coolant or your warranty is void is crap. Another reason I will never purchase a Miller or Lincoln product. They design a product that has short comings and blame the failures on their customer's choice of coolant. The sheer reason Dexcool is used in many of today's cars is to prevent GALVANIC CORROSION of the aluminum radiator or engine parts exposed to the coolant mixture. If it were in any way conductive it would not prevent GV. It would cause it. HF bleed off? Are you kidding me? Once again prove to me that I get HF bleed off using H20 and Dexcool. Now go ahead welding geniuses, jump all over this post with you vast knowledge and experience. For the rest of you who just want advice without being made to feel like your a foolish dope for asking, Dexcool is my recommendation. My welding manufacture does not force me to use their coolant or else. My welders carry a 5 yr warranty. They are green and cost less then 1/2 the price of a blue or red machine. If more of you so called EXPERTS on these welding forums did more welding and less talking about how great your vast years of experience and knowledge are, we all would be much better off. And then there are those of you who take great pleasure in making a person searching for info to feel like a dork. I can only conclude that you yourself are nothing to crow about so you try to make others feel as useless as yourself. These are forums for an exchange of information. Not a venue for snibe, egotistic, hurtful, degrading comments directed at others with less experience as you. If you don't want to exchange info freely without retribution or persecution, go some place else or start your own forum for people like you. WE DON'T NEED YOUR ADVICE.Last edited by denbentgate; 11-02-2012 at 05:13 PM.Reason: Forgot to include stop leak info
Reply:Not bad for your first post.Forthcoming should prove interesting.Lets wait and see.V Attached Images
Reply:OO Oh ME!! PICK ME! I WANNA BE YOUR FRIEND! Seriously though, good post. I run dexcool as well for the same reasons. I too have an everlast that I couldn't be happier with. Though I do have a few of the others, the everlast is my go to machine
Reply:Originally Posted by denbentgateIt's amazing how many of you go to different welding sites and claim the exact opposite or a complete different line of BS. If any of you had a brain you would find out what is in the 25.00 a gallon super juice as sold by whom, a welding manufacturer. Dexcool is exactly what welding super antifreeze juice is. Lower alkalinity, Contains NO silicates, resulting in longer lasting water pump and engine seals; longer shelf life. It is Nitrite-, borate-, phosphate-, nitrate- and amine-free. 100% biodegradable in its pure unused condition. It has extremely low conductivity, no acids and is made of ethylene glycol with NO stop leak additive. You can pay 25.00 for Miller welding coolant if you want to. It's like buying bottled water. I don't buy bottled water which is the same crap that comes from your tap. To think differently is just displaying your ignorance. Dexcool mixed with softened water, distilled water or RO water will perform as well or better then the US welding manufactures super coolant juice. I invite anyone to prove me wrong. Show me a torch or cooler that has been compromised in any way by using soft water and Dexcool. In my opinion, being forced to use a welding manufactures expensive coolant or your warranty is void is crap. Another reason I will never purchase a Miller or Lincoln product. They design a product that has short comings and blame the failures on their customer's choice of coolant. The sheer reason Dexcool is used in many of today's cars is to prevent GALVANIC CORROSION of the aluminum radiator or engine parts exposed to the coolant mixture. If it were in any way conductive it would not prevent GV. It would cause it. HF bleed off? Are you kidding me? Once again prove to me that I get HF bleed off using H20 and Dexcool. Now go ahead welding geniuses, jump all over this post with you vast knowledge and experience. For the rest of you who just want advice without being made to feel like your a foolish dope for asking, Dexcool is my recommendation. My welding manufacture does not force me to use their coolant or else. My welders carry a 5 yr warranty. They are green and cost less then 1/2 the price of a blue or red machine. If more of you so called EXPERTS on these welding forums did more welding and less talking about how great your vast years of experience and knowledge are, we all would be much better off. And then there are those of you who take great pleasure in making a person searching for info to feel like a dork. I can only conclude that you yourself are nothing to crow about so you try to make others feel as useless as yourself. These are forums for an exchange of information. Not a venue for snibe, egotistic, hurtful, degrading comments directed at others with less experience as you. If you don't want to exchange info freely without retribution or persecution, go some place else or start your own forum for people like you. WE DON'T NEED YOUR ADVICE.
Reply:I buy my coolant from Miller4less for <$20.00/gal (including shipping and no tax). Wal-Mart sells Prestone for about $13/gallon. For something I change about every 3 years, I'm not willing to take the chance to save that little.
Reply:Sorry to get under your skin. I see the good old boy gang is on this forum as well. Just checking to see what type of response I would get with a mildly controversial subject. You showed me. Read only forum. Peace out.
Reply:Originally Posted by denbentgateSorry to get under your skin. I see the good old boy gang is on this forum as well. Just checking to see what type of response I would get with a mildly controversial subject. You showed me. Read only forum. Peace out.
Reply:Am I the only one that reads old stuff like this and gets a good laugh out of it?  Good grief, I am getting old!  Hay, but at least I did my own research to learn more about what kind of coolant to use/ not use.GarP.S. What ever happened to Sundown II, his responses are like reading the classic comics on Sunday mornings.Lincoln Electric, Power MIG 256Hypertherm Powermax 45 Miller Dynasty 280DXSmith O/A torchGenesis of a welding table
Reply:I am digging up bones here, I just "winterized" my Watermate1. This is what the sticker said......So with that being said I liberated a gallon of the propylene glycoll we use in a refrigeration unit at the plant, we order 12ea 55 gallon drums at a wack so me borrowing a gallon is no big deal. This stuff is good for -50 and contains corrosion inhibitors, it is orange like other "coolant" I have seen.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:This is the stuffhttp://www.houghton.com/heat-transfe.../safe-t-therm/Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:You all are pussies. I just use straight Jaegermeister, and drink a little after every project!Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:We get cold weather here, I am worried about the condition of the coolant in my coolmate3. I will drain it and visually check it but am thinking of just replacing with dexcool just to be sure it won't freeze this winter.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829
Reply:Dexcool will work just fine, half dexcool half DI water.
Reply:Does the anti-freeze "wear out" in a TIG cooler?
Reply:I've had my cooler running a couple months now and it's a little on the brown side. Also has a slight odor.  I used anchor brand coolant at a50/50 mix.  I'll probably swap it out here shortly.Regards,RobGreat Basin WeldingInstagramBlue weldersRed weldersMy luscious Table DIY TIG Torch cooler
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I put brand new Miller coolant in my Coolmate 3 a year ago. It turned brown. I think there may be something that was inside the radiator that didn't come out when I cleaned it.Gonna break it down and see. Never, ever had problems with their coolant before and have always been an advocate for it.I've heard Dex works good too. As far as your cooler goes, drain it out, fill it with just tap water, out a loop hose on the in and out ports and run it for awhile. I had mine completely apart and blew the radiator out, but might have missed something inside it. Running it with a loop hose for a good half hour will get any grime inside it out.If you have to, do it a couple times.
Reply:I would not use bleach.  Too corrosive, and too hard to rinse clean.I would use CLR, or something similarly acidic.  Look at the instructions for cleaning a coffee machine.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI also see some people mention RV coolant being good too since it doesn't have silicates in it. However the prestone RV stuff I just dumped in my TT said it gets slushy below -10f but won't freeze solid. lol
Reply:Originally Posted by kidtigger24The RV coolant everyone keeps talking about is the stuff that they run in the plumbing system so they don't freeze and split everything wide open in the winter?Would this be the same stuff that is used for winterizing the underground pump lines for inground pools? We used a ton of that stuff on my brother's pool and it seemed to me it was alcohol based. I don't think that would have as good of a heat transfer as automotive coolant or TIG coolant. Am I wrong? Just wondering.kidtigger24
Reply:RV antifreeze is propylene glycol.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTWould it be a bad idea to run some bleach threw the system real quick to clean it out then drain and rinse with water a bunch before going with coolant
Reply:What if you just wanted to bleach the pump and tank? The torch is new so not much worry there.12v battery, jumper cables, and a 6013.I only have a facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/VPT/244788508917829