Help installing 50A-250V/ 3 prong/6-50p outlet for Wire Feed 180

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I have an existing sub-panel breaker box i want to run a 6-50P outlet to so I can use myCentury Wire Feed 180 at home. The previous home owner installed the sub-panel and we have never even flipped the main breaker on it for use. If the sub panel and the breakers within are wired and supplying power to unused outlets as i believe (and will check), do i have to replace the smaller breakers with a new 50 amp breaker or can three of the 20 amp breaker positions just be wired to the new 6-50P outlet? Thanks for any input...will try to add a couple photos of the breaker box.Last edited by SgtHANGMAN; 02-29-2016 at 03:52 PM.
Reply:Three? You would *NEVER* use three breaker poles for a 240V service! The two poles you do use need to be common trip, so either find the parts to link two of your singles, or replace *TWO* of your single breakers with a two pole breaker (otherwise, if only one dumps, the load is still electrically live). How big a breaker you use will be determined by the feed to that panel, what wire you use to the receptac equipment to be run, etc.- TimLast edited by tadawson; 02-29-2016 at 04:16 PM.
Reply:Sgthangman,Your 180 amp mig welder will not need a 50amp circuit.30amp 240v Circuit will be plenty for that machine.As mentioned you don't use 3 CB positions .You just need a 30amp Double Pole Circuit breaker. 10gauge wire and a 6-50 R receptacle)You should pick up a basic Home Electrical book at Home Depot /Lowes and read up on installing a new circuit before you attempt this.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I would urge you to get competent electrical help.Your suggested solution indicates that you have little experience in this matter.There is so much that can go wrong and failure may not be immediate.I would like to remind the court that death is on the table.good luck with your projectI am an industrial hobbyistIf I listed my tools, most of you would just cry.Last edited by ampedtech; 02-29-2016 at 07:25 PM.
Reply:Suggesting the use of three breakers, shows that you might not know enough yet, to attempt to install a new circuit. I suggest you get some professional help, or school yourself on the basics of electrical circuits. Understanding the fundamentals will help you to understand all of the rules about wire size, circuit breaker size, etc, in order to make a safe new circuit.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:I would suggest  that you take what others have said and one up the size for safety reason. I know that 10 ga wire is enough to carry the load for a 30 amp service. But why take the chance? I personally one move up one wire size. Granted I do over build but I look at the other side for error on my part or suggest to others since the cost is not that much more.Klutch 220si mig , stick, and dc tigHobart 140 AHP ALPHA 200X 2016Lotos LTP5000DSmith O/P
Reply:Go with the 50amp circuit.  You never know when a new welder might fall in your lap!  Not much diff in price.I am an industrial hobbyistIf I listed my tools, most of you would just cry.
Reply:It is an easy job to do, but is easy to get hurt if you don't know the basics.  Be sure you know what you are doing before you open up that box and start changing things.
Reply:Originally Posted by ampedtechGo with the 50amp circuit.  You never know when a new welder might fall in your lap!  Not much diff in price.
Reply:Put the 50 in same price ,if at the panel use 6 wire be set for the plazma and 300 amp welder. You can never have too much capacity.
Reply:I'd say you might wanna back up even further and make sure the subpanel is done correctly.  Many aren't, and you seem to indicate it may have been done by the previous occupant, not necessarily professionally.  Hire competent help if necessary - electricity is no joke.Outrunning my headlights since '81.
Reply:Ok folks ....the specifications spoke of installing are recommendations DIRECTLY from the manufacturer. Which is The great welding company "Lincoln Electric" that has owned Century Wire Feed for years. So unless they are the ones that are just plain stupid and printing info in their operating manuals to get people killed I think they know what works. And had i thought i was a genious i wouldn't have asked for suggestions on here. Why the hell would i run 10 gauge wire and NOT a 3 prong when in the operators manual itself the MANUFACTURER calls for the 6 gauge, 3 prong, and a 6-50r outlet?? And I'm pretty damn sure that a 6-50P plug (that just so happens be attached to my welder btw jackasses) plugs into a 6-50R receptacle so duh i wasn't saying i needed to install the plug into my breaker box! I took those specifications off the welder itself and I use it in my welding shop at school that runs 40 different welding stations! So before you start thinking your a damn rocket scientist yourself...know what the hell you yourself knows before you tell you basically tell someone else their an idiot! If ya tell me how to attach pictures to this...i will send you the specifications straight from the manual itself. If you just want to run your own uneducated yap about me not knowing what im doing (which i already acknowledged by asking for help) go slap your mom for having your own dumb a$$. I was just passing on the specifications i got from the manual.Last edited by SgtHANGMAN; 03-01-2016 at 08:05 PM.
Reply:WTF? was that all about?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I wired my own, it turned out fine. So if I can figure it out and I dont have any formal electrical Training  and I did it you'll be okay.It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.
Reply:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt964.pdfVoltage/Frequency230V/60Hz 208V/60Hz Input Current20 Amps - Rated Output 22 Amps - Rated Output RATED OUTPUTDuty Cycle30% @ 230V/60Hz 25% @ 208V/60Hz  Current130 Amp 130 Amp Volts at Rated Output20V 20V    OUTPUTWelding Current RangeMaximum Open Circuit VoltageWIRE SPEED RANGEDC Output:30 – 175 amps33V50 - 400 in/min(1.3 - 10.2 m/min)RECOMMENDED INPUT CABLE AND FUSE SIZES at RATED OUTPUTOutput ModeInput VolatageFuse or Breaker SizeRATED230V/60Hz 208V/60Hz40 AmpInput AmpsPower Cord20/2250 Amp, 250V Three prong plug (NEMA Type 6-50P)Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Perhaps the inability to realize that "prong" and "breaker pole" is not the same thing?  3 prong *STILL* runs on a 2 pole breaker . . . . sorry . . . Or did I miss the point in that ranting spew?
Reply:And yes...if im installing an outlet for welding to start, it sure does make sense to install a 50amp breaker and use 6 gauge wire to handle a plasma cutter or other welding equipment that would have to have the higher rating amperage. Else Id need to install another breaker later and cost me more money!
Reply:50 amp breaker 6 ga wire. PerfectIt's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.
Reply:Well Sheite,If yer going to be planning for the future...Plasma cutter etc etc.... you are going to need another receptacle for a Compressor that will run the air Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:A 120v compressor is fine for a plasma. Mine is 33 gal 1.7hp craftsman. Runs on a 20 amp circuit. 5.1 scfm @ 90 lbs. Just don't cut for longer than 60 seconds at a time. That's a really long cut.It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.Last edited by jakehawk9; 03-01-2016 at 10:02 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by SgtHANGMANOk folks ....the specifications spoke of installing are recommendations DIRECTLY from the manufacturer. Which is The great welding company "Lincoln Electric" that has owned Century Wire Feed for years. So unless they are the ones that are just plain stupid and printing info in their operating manuals to get people killed I think they know what works. And had i thought i was a genious i wouldn't have asked for suggestions on here. Why the hell would i run 10 gauge wire and NOT a 3 prong when in the operators manual itself the MANUFACTURER calls for the 6 gauge, 3 prong, and a 6-50r outlet?? And I'm pretty damn sure that a 6-50P plug (that just so happens be attached to my welder btw jackasses) plugs into a 6-50R receptacle so duh i wasn't saying i needed to install the plug into my breaker box! I took those specifications off the welder itself and I use it in my welding shop at school that runs 40 different welding stations! So before you start thinking your a damn rocket scientist yourself...know what the hell you yourself knows before you tell you basically tell someone else their an idiot! If ya tell me how to attach pictures to this...i will send you the specifications straight from the manual itself. If you just want to run your own uneducated yap about me not knowing what im doing (which i already acknowledged by asking for help) go slap your mom for having your own dumb a$$. I was just passing on the specifications i got from the manual.
Reply:Originally Posted by SgtHANGMANI have an existing sub-panel breaker box i want to run a 6-50P outlet to so I can use myCentury Wire Feed 180 at home. The previous home owner installed the sub-panel and we have never even flipped the main breaker on it for use. If the sub panel and the breakers within are wired and supplying power to unused outlets as i believe (and will check), do i have to replace the smaller breakers with a new 50 amp breaker or can three of the 20 amp breaker positions just be wired to the new 6-50P outlet? Thanks for any input...will try to add a couple photos of the breaker box.
Reply:Panels that accepts the 'thin' breakers will use three of the 'thin' positions to install a standard double (240 volt) breaker."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyPanels that accepts the 'thin' breakers will use three of the 'thin' positions to install a standard double (240 volt) breaker.
Reply:Originally Posted by tinker001Huh??? If you are talking about the double thin breakers then you would need to replace 4 (slim style breakers are a 110 leg that feeds two circuits) of them to get a 50 amp breaker in there. You have to capture both legs of the 110 sides to get 220 for a welder or any 220 volt equipment..Originally Posted by SandyYes you need to capture both legs to get 230/240 volts across the two. With a slim style you get the same leg on two breakers next to each other. A standard sized 230/240 double consumes at least three positions of the slims, two of the standard.
Reply:Forgive me if I missed it however, the first thing you need to do is look at the wire size used for the sub panel. If the PO ran 12 gauge for a few convenience outlets then you need to upsize that wire first. Then you can buy breakers sized for the wire. If 50 amps is available, then by all means buy a 50amp paired breaker and appropriate wire size and wire in an outlet. Since you are already in there, may as well run two, one for the welder, and one for the plasma cutter you don't have yet. Maybe even a third for the compressor you will need in the future.