Think You Saw It All?....

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Went 4 wheelin with Marc and Harry Saturday on the sled trails..When we got back the fun began...I am currently in the truck on the way home so I will get into specifics when I get on my computerOH yea.. It WORKS!!!!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:What keeps the ski from rotating when you hit a rock or grass clump or something? Looks like it will want to just spin backward.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Damnit ! it's going to snow soon enough without you wishing it so.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjWhat keeps the ski from rotating when you hit a rock or grass clump or something? Looks like it will want to just spin backward.
Reply:Might want to consider beefing up the side to side stability too,  not much structure to stand up to much in the way of high speed cornering.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjMight want to consider beefing up the side to side stability too,  not much structure to stand up to much in the way of high speed cornering.
Reply:Originally Posted by smawgmawAgain I agree.  Who said you need to be in an airplane to do snap rolls?Snap, "oh-oh", roll, ouch; that's going to leave a mark.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjWhat keeps the ski from rotating when you hit a rock or grass clump or something? Looks like it will want to just spin backward.
Reply:Well even if those tubes were strong enough, which is a joke, being only hooked to 2 tabs on the hub will never hold up either. Those hubs get bent often enough with tires on when the hit a obstruction in a corner and they are hooked to all 4 lugs and fitted to the center structure of the hub. I hope you're prepared to push the wheel chair of whoever you let ride that thing.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I'd be tempted to turn a new set of hubs with bushings in them. They won't rotate enough to worry about needing bearings, and then you could have more lateral stability. If you really wanted to, you could make a new bolt patterned plate and build stability that way. The plate idea would allow you to make limiting straps.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjWell even if those tubes were strong enough, which is a joke, being only hooked to 2 tabs on the hub will never hold up either. Those hubs get bent often enough with tires on when the hit a obstruction in a corner and they are hooked to all 4 lugs and fitted to the center structure of the hub. I hope you're prepared to push the wheel chair of whoever you let ride that thing.
Reply:Interesting...up here guys used to put wheels on the fronts of their sleds so they could run them in summer.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
Reply:That thing is pretty interesting What do you have going on in the back?Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:You get all the fun jobs! Crazy looking four wheeler, ifn you ask me. ... Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveThat thing is pretty interesting What do you have going on in the back?
Reply:Originally Posted by whtbaronInteresting...up here guys used to put wheels on the fronts of their sleds so they could run them in summer.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverYou get all the fun jobs! Crazy looking four wheeler, ifn you ask me. ...
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBelieve me..We tried to break these and sorry...It ain't happening...My concern was the rim to tube area but not any more.The center bolt is not the only mounting point..There are blocks inside the ski at the very front and rear of the plates will be secured from the bottom...There is less weight on the front of this thing than there is on a 1000 CC sled..Motor is in the rear.I am not worried about this AT ALL.....zap!
Reply:We ran it through a ditch...Over rocks...Over a small wall...Thru the field..Over logs...Our only option at this point is to wait for snow.This is a EXPERIMENT...But for what I saw already..You can doubt it all you wish..And you are not showing us anything about a sled ski we don't already know...My doubting is done.Have a nice day....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:to limit front rotation, bolt 2 solid pieces of rubber thru the the disc at judiciously chosen location, calliper will stop them...gee the holes are already there
Reply:Originally Posted by snowbirdto limit front rotation, bolt 2 solid pieces of rubber thru the the disc at judiciously chosen location, calliper will stop them...gee the holes are already there
Reply:And lest we forget this 4wheeler has 100X the suspension than that of any sled...Way more forgiving.......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterHe got 2 swapped out tracks for free from the Ski Doo dealer in Colebrook...Deflated the really aggressive mud tires and cut the track to fit around said tires..Put the tracks back together with conveyer belt thingies...Inflate tires and they ride and stay in the middle of the sled track drive lugs...We are going to screw the track to the tire lugs eventually...This is not going to be a going anywhere near how fast a sled will go...Also we KNOW that going "Boondocking" in deep powder in this is out of the question..It will just sink.Packed groomed trails is it.We will go fast on the sleds...This is for him and the wife to go sightseeing in once in awhile......zap!
Reply:just going to leave her in 2wd?I'd be funny as all hell to see the AWD kick in on that.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou mean like this?We have a plan..This is all R+D right now but no other bracing gussets needed at all..He rode around the yard going thru brush.. rocks..for 20 mins..The only time there was a problem is in the above pic...I have video but have no clue how to show it.If he did not bend or break it yesterday it just ain't gonna happen.On a groomed packed trail with the carbides installed in the ski life will be just fine..He beat it up really good yesterday and I have no doubt in my mind that all will be well.The tubing is 1 3/4" 6061 with a 3/8 wall..It ain't going anywhere.Now I have to make a set for Harry.......zap!Originally Posted by welderjWeight is not your problem, and neither is the ski to structure mounting. Momentum is your biggest problem. One day you'll be going down a trail at 50-60 mph and come to a corner, turn your ski and they will slide a bit and hit a rut, the frozen trail side, a root or rock and fold right under.  That will drop the front outside corner and the wheeler and everyone on it will go cartwheeling through the woods. Look at this snomobile spindle and see how much more side to side structure there is and it's only a couple of inches from the ski to the support, not 12-18".Attachment 886001Your design is a tiny fraction of the strength and with many times more leverage. You want to test it, dig a 3-4" deep trench 4-5' long  and come at it at 30 mph from about 45-60° and just as you get there turn the skis so they drop in. That will simulate the senario that I described and give you a good test. Of course you you could just whack the side of the ski right at the suport pipes with a 5# hammer and watch it bend. You'll get a lot harder hits than that on the trail.
Reply:Ideally you'd make a new spindle, but for R&D this could at least prove/disprove concept.Teach Ag Mech - Mike At Home:Lincoln Electric AC225Miller Challenger 172Gas AxeWork:eclectic bunch of 90's vintage blue boxes
Reply:Congratulations zap. You've managed to attach those skis to the weakest links on a Polaris RZR. The hubs, a-arms, and pivot points are typical, well known points of failure. It's not a matter of "if" they will fail it's just a matter of when this setup will break. And he still has a stock roll cage on that car...those fail catastrophically, too. What's that you always say?? Oh ya, "You're IT!"....
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYou've managed to attach those skis to the weakest links on a Polaris RZR. The hubs, a-arms, and pivot points are typical, well known points of failure.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireCast hub? Is that a cast sleeve pressed into the aluminum hub? Are the after market billet hubs really 6x stronger?http://www.utvguide.net/rzr_billet_hub_review.htm
Reply:Well guys..l appreciate all the input... Good and bad but I think you guys are missing the point of all this...He is not going to drive this in this set up more than 30 MPH...It will be thoroughly beat to crap before we say "OK it passed tech" and try it out on the trails.There is also a very good possibility they won't even let it out on the trails...No wheeled vehicles allowed on sled trails in winter...They just dig ruts.It's all R+D at this point...From what he put it thru Saturday I am convinced that it is strong enough but like pointed out maybe it will fail in other areas but that remains to be seen.....Gotta wait for snow now to get to the next step.Besides he thought of it and I just made the parts.If it works it works.If it don't...well that's what R+D is all about correct?And if we don't do it someone else will.Don't go condemning something in its beginning stages just yet..Let us beat the hell out of it first on his own property and then we'll see what's up....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWell guys..l appreciate all the input... There is also a very good possibility they won't even let it out on the trails...No wheeled vehicles allowed on sled trails in winter...They just dig ruts....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterDon't go condemning something in its beginning stages just yet..Let us beat the hell out of it first on his own property and then we'll see what's up....zap!
Reply:Just install simple limiter straps on the skis front and rear to keep them from flipping.  Or, forget the skis altogether and put track on the wheels like you did for the rears. Much more flotation and no worries about flipping the assembly. (Probably would need wheel spacers though)Miller Dynasty 200DXMiller 252 Miller 250xMiller Syncrowave 250Miller AEAD200 LegendMiller 375 Xtreme plasmaLincoln WeldPak 100Victor O/A
Reply:
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjUnlike condemning a trailer build before you even know what the frame will look like right?
Reply:I'm a moth at heart, you know that. 😉Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I'm just suggesting you don't poke the bear! We're in his house, best to play nice with the bear.  Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:You suggesting I need to clean and oil my revolver for that one way walk to the woods?Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749No disrespect intended, but it's not HIS house.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI'm just suggesting you don't poke the bear! We're in his house, best to play nice with the bear.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Coming from a guy who professionally builds these to race in the desert (and anywhere else you can imagine)....I'm with ZT on this.Just sayin.
Reply:Originally Posted by welderjYou suggesting I need to clean and oil my revolver for that one way walk to the woods?
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749It's OUR house bro.OURS
Reply:"Unlike condemning a trailer build before you even know what the frame will look like right?"how's that build coming along anyway? LMAO! Last edited by ThorsHammer; 10-27-2014 at 03:29 PM.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Never once did I EVER say this is my site..I just enforce the rules....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Let me ask ya one thing there ZT....What do you think of putting the tracks on this that you can go out and buy?They mount to the same thing the same way and weigh 100X more than what we are doing..And one more thing..If ya ever want to put a cage kit together for us to weld in let me know.I'll take it!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749You're just as much a part of this site as me or anyone else Carl. You contribute a lot and have also done a LOT of stuff for other members unseen, behind the scenes without fanfare to help ppl out.My point was just to illustrate that this is EVERYONE'S site, not under the control or authority of any one sole person. We make decisions as a team, and for the benefit of the site in general. At least that's the way it's supposed to be.IMHO of course
Reply:Shlts gonna change when im runnin this mother fcker! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeShlts gonna change when im runnin this mother fcker!