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This really was not apples to apples based on price till I noticed that Cyberweld has the Multimatic 200 for $1849 + free TIG kit ($519 msrp) and $250 of free accessories (Spoolgun is $246)So $1849 gets you the complete setupLincoln 210mp $999 + TIG kit $600? Spoolgun $220 you are within $50 between them assuming you wanted the whole setup. So what do you all think?Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:My local LWS says that the Multimatic has a great arc. The arc of the 210MP is reported to be similar to small transformer welders, OK, not great. The 210 MP will not go below 15 amps, and the 210MP will not run 6010 stick rod; the Multimatic goes much lower and will run 6010. And of course the multimatic is much lighter. Their view was that the multimatic was the pro machine, while the 201MP was the hobby machine.If the price is similar, what is there to discuss? However, I cannot imagine that the TIG kit could cost $600, so that may be the fallacy in your analysis. Even if Lincoln wants $600, you could do it for much less than half that by buying a torch with a valve and a regulator from a supplier like Tig Depot.It is not surprising that the 210MP is putting pressure on Miller, and the only thing that they can do in the short term is offer various promotions/discounts.Richard Originally Posted by soutthpawThis really was not apples to apples based on price till I noticed that Cyberweld has the Multimatic 200 for $1849 + free TIG kit ($519 msrp) and $250 of free accessories (Spoolgun is $246)So $1849 gets you the complete setupLincoln 210mp $999 + TIG kit $600? Spoolgun $220 you are within $50 between them assuming you wanted the whole setup. So what do you all think?
Reply:I got the TIG kit price from another thread here. Couldn't find a price listed online for it. We are using MSRP anyway. Other considerationsInductance control?Arc force?Hot start?TIG gas valve?Personally I love the pelican "style" case on the Miller. Have that with my ESAB a and it's a really nice feature.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:The miller tig kit comes with a remote and an extra regulator. Not sure on the Lincoln.
Reply:the multi 200 seems like the tig/stick side is the same specs as a maxstar 150 stl which wont run 6010 and doesn't like restarts on 7018. look at the Hobart 190 or 210 or Lincoln 180 for mig and a esab 161 for stick
Reply:Just looked them up. As usual Miller's duty cycles suck. MIG = 10% @180 and their graph doesn't even go to 200 amps. Lincoln is 25% @200 amps. The other processes on both input voltages are similar with Lincoln having better duty cyclesTiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:If by "run 7018" you mean "can the multimatic make a bead with 7018?" Yes, no problem.If you mean "smooth like _________" I have no idea. I rarely use stick, just tried it out. Seemed very similar to my Maxstar 200dx as far as ease of starting and maintaining an arc. (in otherwords, it was easy for me). Note: I'm not a pro.6010, 6013 and a new box of 7018.As for duty cycle. Keep in mind that you really need to dig down deep to figure out exactly what they mean. How close to burning things down do you want to get. There is definitely some fudge factor. Comparing apples to apples is hard unless there was some standard that everyone agreed to test to. Ambient temperature is always a question.My recent big project was a 5x10 utility trailer. Lots of 3/16" cross members welded to 1/4"-3/8" thick C-channel (thickness varies on C-channel cross section). With .030 wire, the machine maxed (autoset for 3/8" steel - which I think was 22V/420 wire speed - but looking at the manual it may have been only 370) the machine did just fine. I had it all tacked and I was hopping back and forth. So 30 seconds weld, 30 seconds reposition (sometimes I had to move the welder). I had 3 tacks on the angle (outside corner and edges and would weld between the tacks. So 4 welds of 2" long * 2 ends * 9 cross members. With extra on the tongue and 'header' pieces. I was attempting to seam weld everything to minimize spots for corrosion. So it was weld one side, move 5 ft over to other side weld the same bead there and move to next cross member. It was cool outside. Zero slowdown. I don't think it took more than 1hr. Maybe it did. So duty cycle was between 50% and 33% (assuming 1hr or 2hrs). All vertical welds were done vertically up (so a bit longer than 30 seconds on those).I will admit that the settings seemed a little low compared to what I expect (I think even .035 wire is normally ~350 ipm on my bigger machine ) and it did seem to spatter a bit more. I have welded on the edge with 110V and it I wasn't careful the weld would get ropey. Not an issue on 220. Bit of undercut in a spot or two where I didn't get it washed in they way I would have liked to (I blame out of position and my back getting tired).One note, the voltage at my house is a bit on the high side. I was running off 75ft of 220 Extension cord. 50ft 6 gauge, 25 ft of 8. Have no idea what the power looked like at the end of that. I need that extra 25 to get to the far side of the trailer.Bottom line, a decent 1/4" steel welder. About what I would expect from a '200' series machine. I honestly don't think you want to weld a single project 1/4" thick any faster than I did.On 110, when I was teaching the boyscouts, 6-8" long beads on 110V on 1/8" - it did shut down for a second or two. The 110 outlet there was shared by a grinder and if he hit the grinder the breaker would pop.In my case, I had a chance to try the welder at a Miller open house/show sponsored by the LWS. That's what sold me.It has a smaller version of the Q-gun (just like the 350P). If you don't have one, you need to see/try one. It seems bit bulkier than the old M20, and there is not as much selection on nozzles, but the nozzles that do come with it clean very easily and except for discoloration, they look good. I use spray version of anti-spatter not dip version. I've seen some pros with pretty narly looking nozzles. I had assumed that was because they used it a lot more than me. But now I'm not so sure. I like the Q-gun and especially like the smaller version on the 200. Perfect for a light duty machine.So if you really can get them for the same price, the multimatic is a nice machine. However, TIG and Stick, the Maxstar is better. Do you really want to pay $1800 for a little/medium MIG? BTW, Miller sells an adapter so you can use the foot pedal off your Dynasty/Maxstar on the multimatic. WP 17 torches are a dime a dozen. I have extra flow meters. Bought a special DIN25 connector...... Still haven't bothered to put together a TIG trial. Bottom line you can put together a TIG setup for less than $600.Last edited by con_fuse9; 12-18-2014 at 01:25 PM.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawThis really was not apples to apples based on price till I noticed that Cyberweld has the Multimatic 200 for $1849 + free TIG kit ($519 msrp) and $250 of free accessories (Spoolgun is $246)
Reply:Originally Posted by pat hthe multi 200 seems like the tig/stick side is the same specs as a maxstar 150 stl which wont run 6010 and doesn't like restarts on 7018. look at the Hobart 190 or 210 or Lincoln 180 for mig and a esab 161 for stick
Reply:After owning a few different multiprocess machine, I think the Multimatic is a pretty good machine to own. Took the slope settings almost right off of a Esab 350 MPI inverter,so Miller found good layout to copy.. I looked at the Lincoln at Airgas, and it seemed well built too. The Plastic on the Multimatic seems somewhat cheezy compared to the older passport real pelican case. It's really not, because it's the same stuff on the engine drives front panel. So pretty good in it's own right. I am mostly waiting for my Airgas to throw it into new/old stock, and buy one for about the Lincoln machine goes for. Then it will be the machine own. (IMO) The old Passport did a real nice job with co2 gas, so no reason for this one being a bit better overall machine.. Got to give Lincoln Credit for Moving quality down the $$$ scale.. We all win here.. PS-love my Tweco 141i for 120 volt welding. Gun change made the arc sweet with small wire.Last edited by Brand X; 12-18-2014 at 10:26 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:I would like to try one mm200 have 150 sth its great on tig but one of the worst stick welders ive used tried 6011,13,7018ac,just saying at a glance specs look the same which would not fair well for the stick welder
Reply:Originally Posted by pat hI would like to try one mm200 have 150 sth its great on tig but one of the worst stick welders ive used tried 6011,13,7018ac,just saying at a glance specs look the same which would not fair well for the stick welder
Reply:Here is a plus for lincoln. LWS had one. It has both drive rolls geared. I like that both have a metal feeder assembly. The Miller only has the main roller driven. Also neither Miller or Lincoln list E6010 parameters.The Miller is definitely significantly lighter though. Attached ImagesLast edited by soutthpaw; 12-29-2014 at 05:33 PM.Tiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Oh, and it says Assembled in Mexico on the machine. Not made in MexicoTiger Sales: AHP Distributor www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P, Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma. For Sale: Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun. Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I think you already saw my other posts about picking up a MM200 in the other 210MP thread, but I decided to pick up the MM200 over the 210MP for a few reasons: not backordered (though the 210 seems easy to find now), TIG gas solenoid, nicer Bernard gun, and it's been out for a while so it's already well proven. Even though portability isn't a big concern for me, it's a bit lighter too. Duty cycle might be a bit less than the 210, but that's not something I need to worry about. I haven't used it much yet, but it's incredibly easy to get a nice weld from this thing. My buddy that had never touched a welder before was visiting for Christmas and after a 5-minute intro to welding I couldn't believe how nice his welds look. All using the default auto-set settings, too. I just leave my unit sitting on a shelf in the garage hooked up to both gases, and switching between processes takes seconds. I can also be a pretty anal person, so this likely won't apply to you or anybody else for that matter, but the Smith regulators that come with the welder and TIG kit are good quality and match those on my O/A setup, heh. The TIG kit also comes with a consumable kit with different sized cups/collets/etc, so it was great for my first/only TIG setup.One other benefit of the MM200 over the 210 I recently discovered is that the fan in the 210MP seems to be always on while the MM200 fan only kicks in when needed. For somebody like me making small and infrequent welds, this mean that the fan is barely ever on. Not to say that either fan is really "loud", but I have a feeling I'd find myself being annoyed and turning the 210MP on and off pretty frequently because of this. You can see/hear the fan of the 210MP in this recent video: I ended up selling the spool gun I bought with it to get the rebate, so I'm about $1600 in for the MM200 and the TIG kit after everything. Had I gone with the 210 I probably could have scraped together a TIG setup for a few hundred, so I'm still probably in about $300 more than I would have paid for the 210MP, but I'm not doubting my purchase in the slightest (well, though I do admit I might have gone the MM211 + separate TIG unit direction had I known about the 30% Zoro sale earlier, ha).Good luck on your decision. Having been in the exact same scenario a couple weeks ago, I know what it's like.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550WHEN WILL THIS RUMOR DIE????? It comes up in almost every Multimatic thread, and never from someone who has one. They just heard it from somebody who heard it from somebody else.I've never run a Maxstar 150, but I OWN and USE a Multimatic 200, often. I've had it for probably 6-9 months now. It's my go-to welder for areas where there's only 110V and I can't or don't want to use the Trailblazer. I haven't used it on 240V yet...didn't buy it for that. THE MULTIMATIC RUNS BOTH 3/32 AND 1/8 6010 JUST FINE. It runs 3/32 7018 fine, but mine doesn't like keeping a 1/8 7018 lit on 110V. As a MIG welder, the arc is great...the equal of my XMT with a Suitcase 12RC feeder on appropriately-sized (read: thin) materials. I run .030 ER70S-6 in mine, and run CO2 gas. There's a specific setting for CO2 which must tailor the arc to the gas, because I've never had any spatter issue at all with CO2. As a matter of fact, it welds so good with CO2 I've never even been tempted to hook to 75/25 even though I keep a tank of it for the Suitcase.The Multimatic was an expensive little machine, but it has been tough so far and has already paid for itself, maybe several times over. I have no complaints.
Reply:I haven't used either but I know the miler has a flow through gas dinse for the tig. The lincoln needs a valve on the torch (i believe)Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I really love my Multimatic. So I made it a stainless steel cage! Attached Images
Reply:Lol how do you change your wire?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:You cant see it very easily in the picture but the SS cage is attached to the welding cart with some door hinges from an old 88 Mercedes. All ive got to do is unlock the cage flip it up and pull the MM out and change the spool.
Reply:that Milwaukee grinder in your picture is the best battery grinder ive ever used almost as good as a corded lots of guts
Reply:Originally Posted by pat hthat Milwaukee grinder in your picture is the best battery grinder ive ever used almost as good as a corded lots of guts
Reply:Lincoln again has their machine on sale. I'd like to know what the current thinking is on this and the Multimatic, a year after this thread was active.
Reply:Originally Posted by old jupiterLincoln again has their machine on sale. I'd like to know what the current thinking is on this and the Multimatic, a year after this thread was active.
Reply:Lincoln has me on some list, sent the notice. Price is $999 for the basic unit, more with the TIG or spoolgun stuff.I'm pondering paying more to get the Tweco (ex- Thermal Arc) Fabricator 252i, same sort of capability but with more snort. If you know of "Cruizer," long-time welder repair expert on the Miller site, he said he took a good look inside one of these and thought the factory had done a good job with it.Trouble with all of these temptations is that I probably HAVE all the welding machinery I NEED; I just WANT one of these cool new-tech machines.IMHO, Multimatic wins HANDS DOWN in a number of areas. It's everything the Passport was and more. It REALLY has a nice arc, runs rods nicely as well, spool gun for aluminum AND TIG (I run it with a wireless pedal too) I've tried the Lincoln and my opinion is that it's more a a hobbyist machine, no gas control for TIG, I wasn't really impressed. And as far as the duty cycle, I'd really like to see you run into that limiting you welding. I've MANY times given it a heck of a workout and never had a duty cycle limit my work. (real work, industrial work, heavy fabrication work, not joe blow garage hero)Don't let my Miller fan boy signature line fool you, I used Lincoln machines for YEARS as well, when the boss man was paying for it... (yes they're good stuff too and I wouldn't mind owning a few of their models either)Last edited by xryan; 03-23-2016 at 02:26 AM.RyanMiller Multimatic 200 tig/spool gun/wireless remoteMillermatic 350P, Bernard/XR Python gunsMiller Dynasty 350, Coolmate 3.5 & wireless remoteCK WF1 TIG wire feederMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeOptrel e684Miller Digital EliteMiller Weld-Mask
Reply:This is the sort of input from professional welders that I was asking for, Ryan.My long-time LWS recommended I avoid Tweco. He claims that where Thermal Arc used to build good equipment, quality has gone down since Tweco took over. Yet Tweco used to build pretty good guns. Got any thoughts on this?
Reply:Originally Posted by old jupiterThis is the sort of input from professional welders that I was asking for, Ryan.My long-time LWS recommended I avoid Tweco. He claims that where Thermal Arc used to build good equipment, quality has gone down since Tweco took over. Yet Tweco used to build pretty good guns. Got any thoughts on this? |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:11:53