What should GMAW sound like?

admin

I have always felt good about the sound of sizzling bacon when using SMAW, but I have just started playing with GMAW, and I experienced some new sounds.  My test base was some 14 gauge mild steel.   Using the settings from the chart on the welder, I was getting more of a crackling sound with almost no splatter – as compared to SMAW. Penetration was almost too much (the underside was bulging). Just to see what extreme does, I turned amps way down, beyond what was on the chart. The resulting weld had good penetration, but what I found strange was the sound – there was none – just light, and a smooth, flat bead.  What kind of sound depicts a good GMAW weld – as compared to SMAW?
Reply:Do you have your machine set to wire and not fluxcore?Sent from my SCH-S968C using TapatalkHH 190Uniweld TorchesLincoln 225 ac-sMarquette Starjet torches gauges
Reply:DennisKToo cold: sounds like a bad drummer - bliss: sounds like crackling cellophane - too hot: sounds like Thelonious Monk's [implied melody].Opus
Reply:A really pissed rattle snake.  If your machine allows, set voltage and slowly dial the wire speed up until it's smooth.  Miller has a MIG app that will give you approx voltages and wire feed, although if the machine has a chart use it. You'll be using short circuit spray mode I assume. If possible use C25/75 gas and make sure the polarity is correct. Watch Jodi's tips and tricks videios and maybe chucke2000.
Reply:Short circuit:Spray:Globular:Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveShort circuit:Spray:Globular:
Reply:Originally Posted by DennisKI have always felt good about the sound of sizzling bacon when using SMAW, but I have just started playing with GMAW, and I experienced some new sounds.  My test base was some 14 gauge mild steel.   Using the settings from the chart on the welder, I was getting more of a crackling sound with almost no splatter – as compared to SMAW. Penetration was almost too much (the underside was bulging). Just to see what extreme does, I turned amps way down, beyond what was on the chart. The resulting weld had good penetration, but what I found strange was the sound – there was none – just light, and a smooth, flat bead.  What kind of sound depicts a good GMAW weld – as compared to SMAW?
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderBy Amps you mean wire speed, so you adjusted the wire speed.And then you got a smooth flat bead with almost no sound.....Friend, that is what they call spray transfer, and not short arc welding...and there certainly are times that spray transfer is more desirable.If when welding with solid wire and gas-especially with smaller machine that can't get above 24 volts, then you want to hear that bacon sizzle sound and you will get more ripples in the bead....That is short arc transfer....Short arc is what we use most for general fab and repairs.With a hotter/bigger machine and on thicker materials, you can crank the voltage up and often get into spray transfer before you realize it, and might be stunned by the sound until you observe the bead....I have had my welder go almost silent and it made really nice deep burned in beads when I hit spray unexpectedly.If you desire to perform spray transfer and have a welder capable of the voltage, then you will want more Argon in your gas mix compared to C-25/75-25 mix...You can hit spray with C-25, but the effect will not last and be intermittent thru the bead.
Reply:I looked up that machine and it lookes like it does quite a bit, but it also looks like you could easily set the wrong dials.  So, besides polarity, make sure it is on CV not CC for MIG. I would think it is pretty much made for short arc mainly, except for a spool gun attachment which would be aluminum spray. If it's brand new, make sure the wire slides easily through the liner, I have bought two that were probably cut with wire cutters creating an erratic feed. It specs out so it might do spray, I just have my doubts.
Reply:Well, if it only produces 20 volts, then you can't get into spray.....And NO, do not use plain Argon to Mig weld....Your gas needs to contain 2% CO2 with 98% Argon for spray.From you last post, it sounds like you are new to mig and compared the sound to stick.  If that is the case, then that explains lots....Closely examine your Mig welds for signs that will indicate LOTS about heat(volts), wire speed(amps) and travel speed...plus continue to listen to it weld....proper heat and amp setting will give you the 'sizzle' sound you want, but it might be out off heat range for thickness of materials you are welding, or you may not be traveling at best speed....The welds will tell you, I promise.The 211i is a very decent machine. It will produce high quality welds within it's design specs....just buy C-25 for Mig and Argon for Alum. they are all you will ever need with that machine.Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 03-20-2016 at 04:06 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartI looked up that machine and it lookes like it does quite a bit, but it also looks like you could easily set the wrong dials.  So, besides polarity, make sure it is on CV not CC for MIG. I would think it is pretty much made for short arc mainly, except for a spool gun attachment which would be aluminum spray. If it's brand new, make sure the wire slides easily through the liner, I have bought two that were probably cut with wire cutters creating an erratic feed. It specs out so it might do spray, I just have my doubts.
Reply:Originally Posted by wornoutoldwelderWell, if it only produces 20 volts, then you can't get into spray.....And NO, do not use plain Argon to Mig weld....Your gas needs to contain 2% CO2 with 98% Argon for spray.From you last post, it sounds like you are new to mig and compared the sound to stick.  If that is the case, then that explains lots....Closely examine your Mig welds for signs that will indicate LOTS about heat(volts), wire speed(amps) and travel speed...plus continue to listen to it weld....proper heat and amp setting will give you the 'sizzle' sound you want, but it might be out off heat range for thickness of materials you are welding, or you may not be traveling at best speed....The welds will tell you, I promise.The 211i is a very decent machine. It will produce high quality welds within it's design specs....just buy C-25 for Mig and Argon for Alum. they are all you will ever need with that machine.
Reply:It's almost impossible to tell what going on with a vague description referencing sounds on a forum.  The bulging on the back side and almost burning through could be from going too slow. There's several variables that can affect the bead and you didn't explain most of them.
Reply:Originally Posted by DennisKThanks blackbart - CV and CC are new terms for me as I am just now starting to MIG.  With stick, I just set my amps and didn't think much about it wondering around - now that I am into MIG, I've got a whole new set to rules.  I was wondering why the digital display of the machine's amps/wirespeed ended with a different reading than when I started out.
Reply:From your manual:"At the completion of welding, the digital meter will hold the last recorded amperage value for a period of approxi- mately 10 seconds in all modes. The amperage meter will hold the value until; (1) any of the front panel controls are adjusted in which case the unit will revert to preview mode, (2) welding is recommenced, in which case actual welding amperage will be displayed, or (3) a period of 10 seconds elapses following the completion of welding in which case the unit will return to preview mode.""The preview functionality provided on this power source is intended to act as a guide only. Some differ- ences may be observed between preview values and actual welding values due to factors including the mode of welding, differences in consumables/gas mixtures, individual welding techniques and the transfer mode of the welding arc (ie dip versus spray transfer). Where exact settings are required (in the case of procedural work), it is recommended that alternate measurement methods be utilized to ensure output values are accurate."Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:"The wire feed speed is in direct relation to the amperage at a given wire stickout (length of wire from the contact tip to the arc). The voltage is in the case of a CV (wire welder) the constant and is the length of the arc from the end of the wire to the weld pool, as you change the wire stick out the amperage changes to maintain the weld voltage. A normal wire stick out for short circuit mig welding is 1/4".The following example may help you understand this with .035 ER70S-6 wire and C25 shield gas set at 20 SCFH flow.1/4" wire stickout, volts 17 and wire feed speed 150 IPM = 100 amps3/8" wire stickout, volts 17 and wire feed speed 150 IPM = 50-60 amps due to the resistive heating of the wire between the tip and the arc the weld current drops to the level required to maintain the set voltage.If you were to reduce the stickout to 1/8" the weld current would increase to approximatly 150 amps to maintain the set voltage.Typical min and max ranges of each wire diameter for ER70S-6.024 minimum 30A 15V 105 IPM WFS, maximum 150A 21V 710 IPM WFSoptimum vert. setting 80A 18V 310 IPM WFSoptimum horiz. setting 110A 21V 465 IPM WFS.030 minimum 50A 17V 95 IPM WFS, maximum 200A 23V 600 IPM WFSoptimum vert. setting 100A 18V 235 IPM WFSoptimum horiz. setting 150A 20V 385 IPM WFS.035 minimum 50A 18V 75 IPM WFS, maximum 225A 25V 500 IPM WFSoptimum vert. setting 150A 18V 185 IPM WFSoptimum horiz. setting 215A 22V 415 IPM WFSI hope this helps more than confuses you."http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ire-Feed-SpeedEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks Broccoli1.  That's a lot to think about when an ark is going, but it clears up conceptually what is happening to me when I got that machine working.  So when I want to cool down a bit when nearing the edge of the metal, do you give a little more stick-out to drop the amps?  I've been working on some 1/8" steel to familiarize myself with MIG and I am really happy with my flat welds ... I still need to work on vertical welds - even uphill beads.  I'm getting better results using 115 volt source - the character of the machine changes quite a bit using 230 V.
Reply:Volts and wire speed (amperage) shouldn't be much different whether it's 115 volt input or 230 as long the 115 will supply the needed current. Possibly when switching to 230 you need to readjust the controls because of more power being available. On some machines the controls are based on a percentage of available current. For example, your wire speed at 3/4 on 115 volts may produce 100 amps but if you switch to 230 it might produce 160 amps. If you have digital meters could help to verify how much/if the settings change between input voltage.
Reply:No electrician and many experienced weldors don't like this explanation of amps/volts, but often it makes basic sense to new guys.Pretend your mig gun is a pistol type garden hose water nozzle.....And lets say your wall faucet was left cracked open so the hose is fully pressurized to city water pressure. Then when you squeeze the trigger the pressure drops instantly and water just dribbles out the nozzle.....That is a example of voltage at low amps, and even if the city increased pressure, water will still not squirt far from nozzle if wall valve remains just cracked open, huh?No, not until you open the wall faucet valve farther....So volts is pressure and amps is flow, right? With too low voltage and too high wire speed the gun will bounce in your hand and the wire will leave whiskers at the weld. With too low wire speed wire burns back toward tip and weld sounds chattery. Set volts for thickness of materials intended to weld, and play with wire speed for smoothest sizzle sound.....At any voltage setting the amps will increase with wire speed until wire reaches a speed where it can't totally burn off and then the circuit will become a dead short that finally pops the wire anywhere but in the puddle.