IGBT moduel vs IGBT Chips

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Can some one explain the difference between IGBT moduel vs IGBT Chips?
Reply:Sounds like a busy marketing department.  Where did you see this anyway?  Looks like some Chicom BS talk to me.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Why yes it is from Chicom. An EVERLAST salesman claims that their Seimens Moduels are better than the Tech used in the LONGEVITY brand. I'm looking for something that could back his claim. If I can't find it, then they will loose respect from me. Hey southpaw, I read a few of your posts, and get the impression that your strictly red or  blue. At my last job I learnt to weld on a Miller MaxStar 150 tig. It was a lot fun but after loosing that job over 4 years ago, I haven't been able to weld since. My new job as tech support has no need for a welder. I relay miss welding and would love to get back into it but spending 3000 to 6000 just so I can play with some metal pieces would be responsible. So if you have any insight into the type of tech used in the chincom welders. please help me out.
Reply:Sounds like a sales pitch... The particular model in question weldall 256 vs their 256 is made at the same factory.Cheers Phone: 877-566-4462 x 201Email: [email protected]: www.longevity-inc.comEmail for any questions about LONGEVITY!
Reply:An IGBT is an insulated gate bipolar transistor. Think of it like a combination of a MOSFET and a bipolar transistor. It's kind of like a Sziklai transistor pair with one of them replaced with a MOSFET. IGBTs are great for switching high power moderately fast, and therefore perfect in a welder. They can do this with pretty good switching losses. The fundamental technology between an IGBT module and "chip" will be the same, it's really more of the packaging. Generally switching devices such as those in module form are designed for higher power applications.Siemens/Infineon makes very good parts, which is why they make sure to let you know they are using them. However, any part, no matter how good, must be used properly or it will face certain failure. I AM MAKING NO CLAIM, neither positive or negative, of their (Everlast's) quality, I am merely stating that the quality of the part used is only part of the equation. Using those parts properly is, in many cases, a bigger part.
Reply:TimBo, I am definitely not a Red/Blue only person.  I have owned all different brands. I also think Chicom machines have their place.  Good for the home/hobby user that does not want to invest a lot of money...  The quality of both the sponsors has been improving consistantly.   I have used an everlast 140st and I will say its a fine machine for the price and a 5yr warranty.  Its a step up from HF welders but not in the same league as the big boys.  I also think a lot of the extra features on the machines you listed are not needed by most people.  Lanse is demoing one of Longevity plasma cutters now and seems to have a pretty good review of it...  The issue most have around here is with the sales/management not so much the product itself.  If we knew more about what type of welding you plan to do we could advise u better.   I would be watching for used machines on Craigslist etc.  As far as E or L, my only recommendation is Do NOT buy a machine with built in plasma...   Junk from any manufacturerTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I've been thinking about getting a tig machine of my own someday. And I was really interested in the Everlast powerpro 256 especially because of the plasma function, I have heard that multiprocess machines like that tend to compromise their abilities. However that 256 seems like its not too bad??  So far it looks pretty decent going by the reviews on welding tips and tricks. I won't be making a purchase very soon, however I am interested on why you say do not buy a machine with built in plasma? I suppose I'm just hoping the technology is getting better.Millermatic 135Craftsman 7 Hp 80 Gallon           2 stage compressor
Reply:What Everlast wants you to zero in on is "Seimens", the brand."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Originally Posted by 70ChallengerI've been thinking about getting a tig machine of my own someday. And I was really interested in the Everlast powerpro 256 especially because of the plasma function, I have heard that multiprocess machines like that tend to compromise their abilities. However that 256 seems like its not too bad??  So far it looks pretty decent going by the reviews on welding tips and tricks. I won't be making a purchase very soon, however I am interested on why you say do not buy a machine with built in plasma? I suppose I'm just hoping the technology is getting better.
Reply:The IGBT module (some can call it a chip as well) is the main current control switching device that is used in most modern inverter plasma cutters and welders.The power supply first converts your AC power (from the electrical panel) into DC....then the DC is chopped up into a Pulse Width Modulated square wave output at frequencies of between 16 khz and 70 khz depending on the manufacturer and design of the plasma system. The IGBT has to switch the full output current (amperage) at up to 70,000 times per second.....like turning a switch on/off 70,000 times per second with 100 or more amps passing through.Better name brands of these IGBT modules (chips) generally cost more and are manufactured by companies that utilize the best manufacturing practices and quality control. Cheaper IGBT's can fail catastrophically (explosion and smoke!), more expensive ones can fail as well....but are far less likely to fail.Most of the manufacturers that brag about their IGBT's are doing so because they likely had a rash of failures with lesser components..and to solve the issue with field failure had to upgrade to better IGBT's and manufacturing techniques...this adds cost.  Siemans is a good brand....however the IGBT alone does not make the component last longer or the plasma work better....rather the circuitry that drives and protects the IGBT from voltage spikes , electrical noise, overheating, etc. is what really separates the higher quality plasma and welder power supplies from the low cost...often imported units.There also are a lot of counterfeit electronics components....just because an IGBT says Siemans on it.....means nothing in this day....especially on extremely low cost import machines!Jim Colt
Reply:That's like buying a Dodge because of the Cummins engine.   The engine is great but the rest of the truck falls apart around it...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawThat's like buying a Dodge because of the Cummins engine.   The engine is great but the rest of the truck falls apart around it...
Reply:Hey I love my Durango, over 200,000 miles and going strong.
Reply:The IGBT’s have been a great leap for the welders as to remove the big transformers from the units.  This is done as Jim stated by converting DC voltage into much higher HI freq AC which allows for smaller component sizes.  To handle the current the manufactures parallel many smaller IGBTs.  This also helps in cooling of the circuits.  If you have a failure it may be one or two IGBTs that goes most just blow up when they short (not much damage to other parts).  IGBT chips look like a flat transistor with 3 legs on a flat aluminum plate for mounting and cooling.Modules are larger and have other components inside their cases.  I worked on a CAT scanner system that had IGBT modules the size of your hand in their HV unit they developed 125KV at 350 MAs.  Some lasted forever and others we replaced once in a while.  The ones in my PM256 are about the size of a thumb nail (not modules).  As with any electronics you push it too much/long and it gets to hot you will pay for it.  Keep it clean too shop dust can be conductive and cause shorts.My 2 cents worth
Reply:Actually the first inverter plasma and welders used FET's (field effect transistors) to do the same switching job that IGBT's do today. The FET's allowed higher internal frequencies that made inductors and transformers smaller (yes...inverters still have transformers...they ar just much smaller and more efficient). The issues with FET's were: 1. They would fail with voltage surges, 2. They could not handle as much current as needed....so they were paralleled, 3. Their switching speed could not handle the highest frequencies.Some companies (and I speak for Hypertherm) started using IGBT's before inverters were used for welding and plasma applications.....they were much more expensive, but were used for reliability. IGBT's have been used in Hypertherm products for over 20 years. Many of the imported plasma systems still use FET's....soley for the lower manufacturing cost....with no regard for reliability. Some are learning that customer satisfaction and reliability is important....especially if you want return business.....so they are switching to IGBT's. I have watched the prices of the better quality import plasma's steadily rise over the years....expect it to continue!Jim Colt Originally Posted by acourtjesterThe IGBT’s have been a great leap for the welders as to remove the big transformers from the units.  This is done as Jim stated by converting DC voltage into much higher HI freq AC which allows for smaller component sizes.  To handle the current the manufactures parallel many smaller IGBTs.  This also helps in cooling of the circuits.  If you have a failure it may be one or two IGBTs that goes most just blow up when they short (not much damage to other parts).  IGBT chips look like a flat transistor with 3 legs on a flat aluminum plate for mounting and cooling.Modules are larger and have other components inside their cases.  I worked on a CAT scanner system that had IGBT modules the size of your hand in their HV unit they developed 125KV at 350 MAs.  Some lasted forever and others we replaced once in a while.  The ones in my PM256 are about the size of a thumb nail (not modules).  As with any electronics you push it too much/long and it gets to hot you will pay for it.  Keep it clean too shop dust can be conductive and cause shorts.My 2 cents worth