walking beam or spring & equalizer or other for atv trailer loaded heavy

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Hi everyone,I am a new member and have a question that maybe someone has the answer to and I am impressed by the contributors of this site and the knowledge they are willing to share.I am planning to build a small but heavy duty trailer to pull behind the honda forman atv.We will be using it to pull heavy loads of dirt,rocks,sand,etc some of the time so i wanted a trailer to not put a lot of tongue weight on the atv. That is where I am hung up in my design..The walking beam is a beautiful concept for going over rocks, rough terrain etc BUT all of the trailer weight (as far as I can figure) is split 50% on the atv/tongue and 50% on the pivot point of the walking beam..The other concept for using two axles is to use springs for front and rear axles with an equalizer in the middle.So if I use the spring concept the height of the trailer bed is higher off the ground which is a disadvantage for loading the trailer (by hand usually) but the weight of the load should mostly be on all four wheels of the trailer. I am also considering mounting the axles directly to the trailer frame since the tires will be 20.5 inches in diameter on 10 inch rims with a tire width of about 8 inches so I figure the tires should do some spring type action.Has anyone had an experience using a heavy loaded dual axle atv trailer using :                                                                                                * Walking beam *                                                                                                * Springs with an equalizer*                                                                                                * None of the above *Thanks
Reply:There is no difference between spring/equalizer suspension and a walking beam as far as ballance. The center is the center and so asuming wheels in the same position ballace will be the same. A single wheel with the wheel in the same place as the pivot in a tandem will give the same tongue weight as well.Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:I have a walking beam aluminum box trailer. I have had al least 1200lbs in it. It never missed a beat. I also went with the bigger spindles that connect the main axles. So the wheel spindles are 3500 lb, the main one is 5k I believe. I would fill my box with gravel and not worry about the axles, I just would not be able to pull it!
Reply:axle position dictates tongue weight, not suspension type.  atv trailer for rough terrain you want walking beam, springs and equalizer likely won't flex enough.
Reply:Walking beam can also achieve a far greater ground clearance since there's not an axle tube extending the width of the trailer.  Nothing as frustrating as having an axle hang up on a stump or rock.  Except for having a tandem axle trailer, and the first axle bounced over, and the second one didn't, and then you can go forwards or backwards.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Definitely a walking beam. Here is a good example of what a walking beam trailer can handle. I posted to where he starts using the walking beam, but really the whole thread is worth a good look. http://www.polarisatvforums.com/foru...-russia-6.htmlThere are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Pulling a trailer at 1,000 ls. or more and going downhill, even at a slight grade can result in disaster. An ATV does not have sufficient weight to stop a heavy load like that. They pull great but it would take a much heavier tow vehicle for any downhill runs.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:thanks for all of your inputs.I guess the real question I need the answer to is : for example if the trailer is loaded with 1000lbs (and I agree with milomilo that is too much to be safe) with a walking beam suspension Would not 500lbs be on the tongue and 500lbs be on the pivot point (assuming the pivot point is right at the half way point of the trailer)Question for shaynoak : with the 1200lbs you had on your setup how heavy was the tongue? and what were you using for the tow vehicle?
Reply:Originally Posted by Jamie45thanks for all of your inputs.I guess the real question I need the answer to is : for example if the trailer is loaded with 1000lbs (and I agree with milomilo that is too much to be safe) with a walking beam suspension Would not 500lbs be on the tongue and 500lbs be on the pivot point (assuming the pivot point is right at the half way point of the trailer)Question for shaynoak : with the 1200lbs you had on your setup how heavy was the tongue? and what were you using for the tow vehicle?
Reply:Your thinking to hard and making me think to hard.Like said axle placement dictates load.To really have a 50% 50% split tongue and axle you would need the axle at the absolute back of the trailer.With most axles close to center (atleast on small trailers)  you will have 10% to 15% of the total weight on the ball.With tandem regardless of suspension it is the same.  Granted a solid set of axles will load one axle due to terrain.If they can equalize the load of both is even and at the center of both axles.  Keeping the trailer weight even on both axles and the tongue.Eastwood 135 mig welderHobart Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DCHobart EX Tig 165
Reply:I have a rhino 700 that pulls it. I would say no more that 140 lbs was on the ball. My trailer axle is centered to the tub. It is heavy, but I didn't have any big hills to go down. I had over half cord of wet wood stacked in it. The rhino in low didn't even hesitate on flat ground, the trailer was smooth as always. On a side note, I have a log skidder I pull that has had 2000 lbs, and I went down decent hills... the rhino has engine braking, but I couldn't stop if I wanted to with the skidder.
Reply:Originally Posted by kcb37Your thinking to hard and making me think to hard.To really have a 50% 50% split tongue and axle you would need the axle at the absolute back of the trailer.
Reply:Regardless, half the weight will not be on the tongue. it's all semantics after that. Most trailers have the axle at 10% behind center of the box. This gives the tongue some weight when the trailer is unloaded and keeps the majority of the load on the axle. that being said, the trailer weight distribution will be determined by how you load it. most loads aren't uniform in weight. Some dirt is wetter then other parts. some logs are denser than others. Some things are weight biased like most cars for example. Where the majority of the weight is in one location vs another. so to get a balanced load you need to load your trailer properly. The 60/40 rule is a pretty good place to start, but for an ATV with a dump trailer I'd go 50/50 as most ATV's can't take a lot of tongue weight. for example. My ATV has a tongue weight rating of..... wait for it.... A whole whopping 35 lbs. that's barely enough to pull well just about anything.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:thanks again to all..I remember when I was a kid working in a small machine shop an old timer gave me some words of wisdom he said "engage brain before putting mouth in gear" (nowadays fingers and brain) ha. no wonder I never did good in high school physics class.Actually I eventually figured the whole issue out thanks to welderj's reply earlier about balance and kcb37 and cd19 is right on..and as for the 50% 50% weight distribution issueI was worried about,the axle would have to be at the very back of the trailer.Why did I not figure that out earlier ? I don't know,but I believe I am on the right track now.I think I was over thinking the whole issue. Sorry kcb37 that I made you think too hard too. ha ha. I
Reply:also.forgot I wanted to thank ThorsHammer for the link to the video showing the walking beam in action..awesome video..and thanks for your input
Reply:Making the tongue longer will ease the weight burden on the Atv.  If you're worried about it, I would make the tongue a foot or two longer than you think you want and then cut it shorter later after testing.My name's not Jim....
Reply:No worries.Did you check out the whole thread that that walking beam video was on? pretty amazing stuff.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Yes, it is indeed a class 2 lever.Axle in original position (example)Moving the axle rearward, no change in length of tongue.Extending the tongue about 20", leaving axle in original positionSo Jamie, see what you learned today "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I for sure will study your examples of 2nd class levers farmersamm, before finalizing my plans…good stuff ..thanks ( I don't recall those prints in high school physics class..ha ha)I did check out the entire thread today Thorshammer I agree its pretty amazing what those guys were involved in.
Reply:This is getting complicated. I built 60" tub, put The axle in the center of the tub. Built a 3' tongue, it tows great. Any longer of a tongue and it won't fit sideways on the trailer. And any longer it becomes very difficult to turn in the tight trees. I'll post pics when I'm outta the hospital.