Cutting a rusted rod out of a sleeve

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The end of this 2 1/4" diameter (1/4" wall thickness) rusted-off rod is still embedded in the sleeve which it is supposed to push against (see pictures below).  I need to get the remnant out so I can replace the rod.I recognize that this probably isn't a great first project to attempt with my newly aquired and never used oxy-acetylene torch, but I can't think of a better approach and grinding it out doesn't seem realistic.Would greatly appreciate any suggestions/pointers from those that have done this sort of thing before... Attached ImagesLast edited by ation; 11-18-2012 at 09:38 PM.
Reply:It's kind of hard to see what is going on with that detail. Is it possible to go thru or not? I'm thinking a sawzall blade and cutting kerfs in the pipe material , then using a chisel to collapse the pipe into the center to remove it. It's possible to do this in a blind hole, but much more difficult.It is possible to wash out the pipe with a torch however again with a blind hole it will not be all that easy. You'll end up with most of the molten metal blowing straight back at you. Success usually means you need to have the torch adjusted right or you will end up gouging out material you want to save..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sorry about the bad picture... tough to get a good one lit by a flashlight.The rod is seated against the bearing surface for the spring.  Essentially, it's like a sideways cup that the rod slides into.  So, there's no way to go all the way through and it's reasonably important not to destroy the bearing surface (though that's about a 1" thick hunk of metal).Attached is another picture that may make it easier to visualize: Attached ImagesLast edited by ation; 11-18-2012 at 09:58 PM.
Reply:While I could easily torch it out I wouldn't suggest trying it as a first time cutting thing. It takes practice to do that type of torch work.   A much easier way would be to simply weld the inside of the tube. Just take and run beads back to front all the way around being careful not to get to close to the back end and weld it in place (but don't stay to far away either). Then let it cool and the piece of tube will fall out.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:That pic didnt make it any better but the answer is yes you can blast the inner rod out with OA or plasma. I just did and have done similar and I can tell you, dont over do it, keep a chisel or punch handy. It sounds like a blind hole(not all the way thru) and as DSW said, " its gonna blow back in your face " so wear PE. I guess your replacing the bearing? I would kerf the inner rod in 2 , 3 or 4 places with a torch and finish with a small chisel if you have to. Im guessing you know how to set a torch up?
Reply:Irishfixit's idea is even better but is it faster?
Reply:Originally Posted by Insaneride...Im guessing you know how to set a torch up?
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideIrishfixit's idea is even better but is it faster?
Reply:denrep, your right about faster than correcting an attempt. I washed out a weld yesterday then I tried to wash some more. Then I spent more time correcting the overwash and then correcting the correction than should have been spent. Irish fixit's method sounds safer but Im not familiar with doing it that way. It sounds easy enough.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepI guess we're lookin' at the  track tensioner of a crawler tractor?
Reply:I personally would just wash it out with a torch. Slow light washing and u will never touch the bearing surfaces, this is a fairly easy job, What sucks is when the pins are 8" diameter and 20" long......Oh how i hate my life when i half to deal with them.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCI personally would just wash it out with a torch. Slow light washing and u will never touch the bearing surfaces, this is a fairly easy job, What sucks is when the pins are 8" diameter and 20" long......Oh how i hate my life when i half to deal with them.
Reply:Originally Posted by ationIf I could weld something to the inside of the rod end that could withstand the abuse and  provide a striking plate for the sledge, that'd probably be ideal.  I've been spraying the broken off end down with PB Blaster for the last several days.Of course, that'd just change this from a first-time torch project to a first-time welding project... but, what the heck.. that's how we learn, right?
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideIrishfixit's idea is even better but is it faster?
Reply:A non destructive way to remove worn bushings in a blind hole are as follows;turn a rod down to the inside diameter of the piece to be removed. Not a press fit but not sloppy. You might be able to find a drill blank or drill bit the right size.   Next, fill the blind hole 2/3 with hydrolic fluid or ?. Then, insert the drill blank and hit the end with a hammer lightly. The hydrolic action will force the piece out.I never tried this but remembered reading  about it from  a reliable machine shop source.  I cant tell for sure if Ation has a blind hole or not. They do make 2 inch Sawzall blades.
Reply:DSW, thanks for xplanation of Irish fixit's method. I couldnt comprehend how it worked until you xplained it
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideA non destructive way to remove worn bushings in a blind hole are as follows;turn a rod down to the inside diameter of the piece to be removed. Not a press fit but not sloppy. You might be able to find a drill blank or drill bit the right size.   Next, fill the blind hole 2/3 with hydrolic fluid or ?. Then, insert the drill blank and hit the end with a hammer lightly. The hydrolic action will force the piece out.I never tried this but remembered reading  about it from  a reliable machine shop source.  I cant tell for sure if Ation has a blind hole or not. They do make 2 inch Sawzall blades.
Reply:Originally Posted by ation...... I've been spraying the broken off end down with PB Blaster for the last several days......
Reply:Stopped by the tractor place on the way home to pick up some welding rod.Notes to self: 1) There aren't any charts in the store to help clue you in as to which rod you might need; 2) The labels on the rods just tell you what the rod is... not what to use it for; and 3) the guy at the tractor store is pretty sure you can't weld with an O/A torch... "it just brazes" he says.Walked out with some 3/32" Copper-Coated Steel Rod (RG-45).  Subsequently read that the "G" in RG stands for "Gas" so it sounds right and will hopefully work ok.  Wasn't sure about the difference between 3/16" vs. 1/8" vs. 3/32"... figured you'd typically pick by how big of a gap you're trying to fill.  In this case, I figured bigger is better.Also walked out with several things that go between me and the hot stuff so I should be covered on the "PE' side of things.Time to grab the fire extinguisher and go practice.With regard to prepping the actual piece, I could clean up the PB and  whatever else is there with either muriatic or phosphoric acid.  Any value to doing that?
Reply:Arc welding would be preferred for shrinking. O/a is too slow and will heat the whole piece. Liquid nitrogen or drug ice can shrink pieces. Loctite makes a freeze off spray to do thisMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:What he said. If you've only got the torch then cutting is a better option.   Ok. In this case the main problem is the blind hole (or semi blind). The hard part will be getting down to the corner of the piece without cutting into what you don't want to.    If a torch is all you've got then here's another possibility. When cutting you're actually burning the metal which creates heat as well.   Start with cleaning the rust off the piece you want to cut. You can actually leave it on the other piece since it will help act as a shield. But you'll want the rust gone to make the cutting easier the first time out. Best to grind it down to shiny metal or at least mostly shiny.   Now you'll have to cut from the outside in. In a case like this I would use a large tip and low pressure on the oxygen. That will make it easier to control. Say run no more than 20psi oxygen for this. Possibly lower. The large tip will help with two things. First with the low pressure you'll get a slower oxygen jet (making the cutting easier to control) and it will have a larger preheat allowing for faster starting.   The trick here is to cut the piece fast and not let the outside part heat up any more than you have to. Try to get it in a comfortable position where you can easily work your way around the inside easily.   Start the cut on the inside corner with the tip tilted slightly toward the inside. Work the cut out toward the outside edge of the tube but stop slightly before you get to that edge. Try to make the cut got down toward the bottom of the tube as far as possible without letting it reach the bottom of the hole. Work your way around the tube like that washing it away. The cutting will heat up the remains of the tube fairly quickly. The goal is to having the tube get red hot while letting the outside piece remain relatively cool. If you work fast enough and possibly with the help of some rust between the tube and the outside piece you can actually wash right up to the outside piece without cutting it. But that does require some skill and a steady hand.   If you just wash most of the tube without actually cutting all the way to the edge then you're less likely to damage the outside piece. The heat created by the washing should be more than enough to cause the shrinking needed.   From the looks of the pic I don't think you're working with cast iron there. If it's actually a welded steel piece like I think then you could hit the whole thing with a water hose right after cutting to help break any remaining rust bonds. However if it's cast iron it wouldn't be a good idea since you could actually cause the casting to break.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:What model of dozer are you working on?
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideA non destructive way to remove worn bushings in a blind hole are as follows;turn a rod down to the inside diameter of the piece to be removed. Not a press fit but not sloppy. You might be able to find a drill blank or drill bit the right size.   Next, fill the blind hole 2/3 with hydrolic fluid or ?. Then, insert the drill blank and hit the end with a hammer lightly. The hydrolic action will force the piece out.I never tried this but remembered reading  about it from  a reliable machine shop source.  I cant tell for sure if Ation has a blind hole or not. They do make 2 inch Sawzall blades.
Reply:Originally Posted by boatbuoyI've always had to use wheel bearing grease for this.anything thinner will squirt out of the smallest gap without developing enough force on the bushing.
Reply:Originally Posted by jpump5I read of a similar trick in an industrial maint. trade mag.A broken dowel pin would be removed from a blind hole by drillingall the way through the center of the pin and stuffing bubble gum in the hole.Then a smaller dowel pin would be put in the hole and tapped with a hammer.Hydraulic pressure would force out the broken dowel pin.Personally,in this case I would try Irish's weld/shrink method.Been practicing on a flat 1/4" sheet.  While my cuts aren't pretty, I'm now reasonably comfortable with how the setup works and the adjustments necessary to get a neutral flame.I've tried cutting a kerf into the sheet without going all the way through without a lot of success.Using just the preheat O2 it doesn't take long to turn the area under the flame into molten metal.  Applying the cutting O2 certainly moves things along faster but it also blows the slag around a lot.I'm wondering if I should just heat up a small section of the rod I'm trying to remove and then just use something to scrape out the softened metal while it's hot?I'm using a #0 cutting tip with the O2 at 20psi and the Acetylene at 5psi.  The tip is too big to get it inside the rod so my flame is angled from outside the piece in which seems like it would just push the molten metal towards the back of the partially blind bearing surface?
Reply:Originally Posted by ationBeen practicing on a flat 1/4" sheet.  While my cuts aren't pretty, I'm now reasonably comfortable with how the setup works and the adjustments necessary to get a neutral flame.I've tried cutting a kerf into the sheet without going all the way through without a lot of success.Using just the preheat O2 it doesn't take long to turn the area under the flame into molten metal.  Applying the cutting O2 certainly moves things along faster but it also blows the slag around a lot.I'm wondering if I should just heat up a small section of the rod I'm trying to remove and then just use something to scrape out the softened metal while it's hot?I'm using a #0 cutting tip with the O2 at 20psi and the Acetylene at 5psi.  The tip is too big to get it inside the rod so my flame is angled from outside the piece in which seems like it would just push the molten metal towards the back of the partially blind bearing surface?
Reply:To be successful you have to be confident and cut fast so you get in and out before the whole piece is hot. Don't fussy foot around. Once you are through you can fallow it around. I done care for the plasma for this kind of job. The plasma doesn't stop at layers like the torchMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Gentlemen,Just wanted to say thanks for the help.  The rusted rod is out and the bearing surface is ready for the new track adjuster:Decided to cut a few lines straight back and see if that would weaken the remnants of the rod enough for me to get it out.  Worked quite well.Pictures show before the cuts, the removed rod remnants and the cleaned up bearing surface.Irish, your videos were a great help.  Thanks so much for taking the time to make and share them. Attached Images
Reply:Congratulations!
Reply:Great. Glad you got it done. Looks like you didn't have to much trouble controlling the cut.   Thanks. I made them to try and help people in situations like this.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm