New Scratch Start Test Photos Comments, Advice, Critique Requested

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Ok guys, I've never touched a TIG before.  Today I assembled my Santa setup and tried a few "beads".  My first attempt I still had my AC/DC machine on DCEP so I ended up burning the first half inch off the tungsten electrode.  Then I remembered reading a thread here about tungsten burning off.  I have tweco lead ends so it was as easy as switching the leads in about thirty seconds. Slip in a fresh electrode and away we go.I started at about 80 amps on 1/8 stock and 3/32 tungsten, 1/16 rod and a #6 cup.  My  argon was at about 15.  I played around with the amps from about 35 amps all the way to about 130 amps.  I was just trying to get a feel for how fast I would contaminate the electrode and keeping an arc.  I even just moved the arc around without feeding filler kind of like doing a fusion weld with o/a.I have attached a couple of photos.  My questions:What is the brownish red stuff that was a result of some beads?Why are there holes in some of the beads?I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:You gota clean the metal. And use more amps. How long is your stick out?
Reply:Kinda looks like a kids first art project
Reply:Moto, stick out was about 1/4 of an inch.  Is it better to use more amps?I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:You see how all those beads it looks like the bead is just sitting the metal? That means its cold. Steel will weld like crap after a couple beads because the metal gets hot. Set the steel on a big piece of aluminum. I always do that. It will pull the heat out of it real good. Cut out pieces that are like 1/8 thick by 6 inches long by 2 inches and run but joints and t joints. .then run beads all over them in a straight line leaving a 1/8 gap inbetween each bead. And you gota let it cool down in between each pass. 1/4 is a good stick out
Reply:Yup clean, clean, clean.  Both sides should be scale, rust and oil free. When your puddle penetrates it will bring "crap" up from the under side. Keep messing with it you'll figure it out in no time. Then you'll want to tig everything you build, it's time consuming but precise. Have fun and good luck.Thermal arc 211iCk flex-loc 150 & 130Clamps, saws & grindersHarbor freight 80 amp inverter
Reply:It's kinda like stick welded. Don't move until the puddle is the size you want it. I usually look at the puddle between 6 and 12 o'clock.
Reply:Moto, ok.  I have a bunch of 1/4 inch aluminum I can use as a heat sink.  I use a water dunk bucket to cool my practice pieces, though.Butts and tees, will do!  Thanks.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:Are you using 70s2 or a oxy/acc rod
Reply:usually the red stuff is tungsten when you dip your tungsten into the puddle or other contamination. The holes seem to imply to me you are not getting enough gas. I would skip the filler rod at first. Set your amps to 80-100 to start with, and just practice making a puddle and moving it across the plate. You REALLY need to make sure you are starting with bright shiney metal. A wire brush is not going to cut it. You need grind or sand the metal down to bright and shiny. Then clean it with acetone. Your tungsten shouldn't stick out more than 2-3 diameters. 1/4 inch is about the max unless you run a gas lens. Turn up your gas a touch and make sure it is flowing properly.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313Are you using 70s2 or a oxy/acc rod
Reply:Originally Posted by wannab1  My questions:What is the brownish red stuff that was a result of some beads?Why are there holes in some of the beads?
Reply:As long as everything on your torch is good 15 cfh is plenty I use 10chf with a #5 cup. I even used 6cfh tonight with a #4 cup and it welded clean. I think it's because you didn't get that metal clean. Or you got a crap load of torch angle. Try to pause when your done welding and look at your torch angle. Try to keep it no more then 1:30 clock position or less. What color is your tungsten when your done?
Reply:You have a gas flow issue.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYou have a gas flow issue.
Reply:Originally Posted by 92dlxmanthis. make sure your filler is not designated as "RG", as in RG60. it must be 70s_ (_ being anything 1-6)i bought RG filler (meant for flame welding) and it did not like tig one bit. looked a lot like yours
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313As long as everything on your torch is good 15 cfh is plenty I use 10chf with a #5 cup. I even used 6cfh tonight with a #4 cup and it welded clean. I think it's because you didn't get that metal clean. Or you got a crap load of torch angle. Try to pause when your done welding and look at your torch angle. Try to keep it no more then 1:30 clock position or less. What color is your tungsten when your done?
Reply:DSW, great feedback.  I'll work on this tonight along with everyone else that made suggestions.I'll post a couple more photos later with the results of my implementation of many the suggestions.Thanks everyone.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:Originally Posted by wannab1Gamble, too much or too little?
Reply:Is your cup all the way bottomed out or is there a gap between the cup and the white insulator? Did you clean all the mile scale off?as soon as you bump the tungsten stop welding and change it out. Get like 4 tungstens and cut them in half with a thin cut off wheel and get the button or half back. I use the button most of the time.
Reply:OK guys, I tried to use all your comments.  I cleaned the metal very bright and shiny with a flap disc then wiped down with a liberal dose of acetone.  Then I put my gas on at 15 CFH like I had it the other night.  I put a sharpened tungsten in at about 1/4 inch.I did not use any filler...just wanted to start an arc at 100 amps and run the arc across the metal in a consistent manner.  So you can see that I ran about 12 beads of fusion welds.  Some were obviously too fast, some I hovered too long and melted too much.  A couple of times I forgot to turn my gas on before striking an arc (that makes a mess)!  The very top two beads I used 1/16 filler and built a mountain of filler on one spot and erratic beads.  Wow, what a difference cleaning makes!  Even the buzz that the arc makes sounds different...stronger and consistent.  I also saw the arc make the little ball on the end of the tungsten like I saw in some of Jody's videos.  That was a confidence booster.Moto, good idea on cutting the tungsten in half.  Next month I'll get a few more different cups and some short back ends for my torch.  My cup was essentially bottomed out.Comments and critiques welcome.  The second photo is how well I cleaned the two pieces in photo number 1.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:Are you resting your wrist or forearm on the bench edge? That's makes it alot easier then free hand. I think you still need more heat and maybe a little less filler. What filler rod are you useing?you gota whatch the width of your puddle
Reply:Try running a t joint and use 125 amps. T joints takes alot more hear then butt joint. You could even turn it to 135 or more but you would need to move faster
Reply:Moto, yes on resting my torch hand.  1/16 70S filler rod.  Will try a t-joint tomorrow evening with 135 amps.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:I'd start at 125 amps. How does your tungsten look after welding?Moto, grey or dark grey when complete.  And it is about 1 inch up the tungsten.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:How about a pic of it and your torch. How long are you post flowing? And what was the machine set at while runing those beads?
Reply:With those short runs, your tungsten should almost look as good when you finish as when you start. Shouldn't be balling at all on dcen for steel. You might lose the fine point on a very sharp tungsten but shouldn't erode or ball. (if you don't touch and post flow) If so, somethings not right. Gas coverage/leak, dirty metal or machine setup. Did you say what kind of tungsten?
Reply:I'm going to go against the grain and say that you should start out at lower amperages.  You're a newby, still learning.  Feeding 1/16 filler at 125 amps takes a lot of experience.  A lot is going on and it's hard to feed fast enough to experience the cooling effect of adding filler.  You gain that over time.  I'd suggest you start out with 1/8 filler at 100 amps....lay the wire and slightly weave over it to get a consistent bead.  Concentrate on washing the sides in evenly.  This will steady up your torch hand without the complications of feeding.  Then you can try removing and dabbing the filler rod. Then feed on the sides to get a wider bead.  Get the basics down.  Hot and fast may be a necessity on stainless but is not required on mild.    Another point to remember is that you cannot burn out porosity by welding over it.  If you forget your gas and have a bad start or arc mark, totally grind it out or avoid the area.
Reply:Agree with Oldsparks..on amps. I'd rather be a little patient than be rushed along and not able to react or observe what's happening. For me, laps were sweet for learning, seemed to be a quick way to build some confidence. Fusion or w filler. You can learn a lot from a lap
Reply:You guys must be a little slow. 125 amps is not flying at all. I ran a lap at 160 amps with out any problems.
Reply:you need a few months of practice without even using filler wire the  add filler wire.
Reply:Ok, guys.  Here's some new beads of tig that I laid down.  Tried to implement most of the suggestions.  The working stock is still 1/8 in, not 1/4.  Amps are about 80 and I was using 1/16 fill.  Please critique as necessary.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:It's coming along now as you have some consistency and less porosity.  More practice and a little experimenting to find your comfort zone.  Notice the repetitive undercut you have on one side of your beads.  Some of this would be simply because you never fed enough filler but in the spots where the bead has widened, I think you've either let your torch wander or you pulled it back and long-arced for a spell.  The arc should never extend outside of the width of the bead you want.Last edited by OldSparks; 01-10-2015 at 05:41 PM.
Reply:starting to look like welding, now.
Reply:Thanks guys.    So feeding more filler would reduce the undercut?I should probably be using 1/8 filler.  I'll try that tomorrow.  I did all these this afternoon.  Cleaning the filler rod, the tungsten, and the workpiece all really well with acetone before starting up.  After each bead has cooled, I wipe down the workpiece again before running another bead.  Since beginning to do this, I'm getting no (or almost none) reddish-brown areas now.  When I first started last week, I was getting lots of it.  I have also remembered to turn on my gas every time!Last edited by wannab1; 01-10-2015 at 10:14 PM.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:Looks like maybe you moving a little fast in spots. Turn up the amps to 110 or more
Reply:I don't get the acetone fixation. You're just practicing, you don't need it. I've been TIG welding pipe for a living for 30+ years and never used it once.
Reply:Originally Posted by wannab1Thanks guys.    So feeding more filler would reduce the undercut?I should probably be using 1/8 filler.  I'll try that tomorrow.  I did all these this afternoon.  Cleaning the filler rod, the tungsten, and the workpiece all really well with acetone before starting up.  After each bead has cooled, I wipe down the workpiece again before running another bead.  Since beginning to do this, I'm getting no (or almost none) reddish-brown areas now.  When I first started last week, I was getting lots of it.  I have also remembered to turn on my gas every time!
Reply:TimmyT, when I don't use the acetone I get lots of red "trash" looking like rust on each side of the weld.  When I do use the acetone I get none.  I don't know how to explain it other than it seems to work.  Of course, I've only been doing it for about two weeks so my experience is zero.I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:Originally Posted by wannab1Thanks guys.    So feeding more filler would reduce the undercut?I should probably be using 1/8 filler.  I'll try that tomorrow.
Reply:I'm thinking maybe you got some low quality steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGI don't get the acetone fixation.
Reply:Originally Posted by wannab1TimmyT, when I don't use the acetone I get lots of red "trash" looking like rust on each side of the weld.  When I do use the acetone I get none.  I don't know how to explain it other than it seems to work.  Of course, I've only been doing it for about two weeks so my experience is zero.
Reply:These guys all have great info for you, but from your second  set of welds your improving.....Practice, practice,practice, you tube, you tube and welding wed advice from  these threads and you'll have a base to start from!!! they are great coaches here.
Reply:Ok guys, I did not realize it, but I was using a lot of 3/32 filler mixed in with my 1/8.  Sooooo, as you can see, I did my first lap and T joints.  I occasionally got some porosity, not sure why.  Overall, I'm feeling a bit more confident.  I wish I had someone around here to actually physically go and spend and hour or so with them so they could actually see me weld and then critique.  Anyway, Argon at 15cfh, About 65-70 amps, 1/8 stock, 3/32 filler.  See attached photos.  Critique away!  (Thanks in advance).I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A
Reply:Are you scared to turn up the amps?
Reply:Thin then wide thin bead then wide. You gota whatch the size of the puddle and make sure it's big enough before adding filler and moving. Or if its to big start moving faster. Turn the amps up to 110. 65amps on 1/8 steel with 1/8 wire is silly as hell
Reply:Where did you get that steel, did you cut up an old bed frame?Definitely needs more heat.
Reply:Not afraid of amps.  Tomorrows set of photos will be 110 amps!  As far as the porosity on the t joint I think my stick-out should have been longer and gas a bit more cfh...thoughts?I really have no idea what I am doing.Two Shop Cats (not Bobcats...real cats)Miller DialArc 250 AC/DCScratch-Start TIG SetupMIG 175Plasma CutterO/A