120 volt mig machines can't.....

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120 volt mig welding machines can't weld 1/4 inch thick steel together.If they can't weld 1/4 inch then surely they can't weld 3/8 inch. If they cant weld 3/8 inch steel then they definitely can't pass a bend test.Too bad I am a bad listener. I used the lincoln. With .035 inch flux core lincoln innershield wire. Welded half the plate with 2 passes, other half with 3 passes. With about 3L/min CO2 coverage, more to cool the tip than provide actual coverage.I used "offical bend test plates" with about a 1mm gap.Last time I ran flux core was about 3 years ago, I didn not use a grinder, not even a wire brush wheel, I used a hand powered wire brush and a piece of 0.035 inch wire to pick out the slag from the toe of the weld. I have grinders and wire wheels, I just chose not to use them.Handed my test plate off to some one that could cut it and run it through a bend tester. I asked him to kill it, root and cap test the 2 and 3 pass sections, but they only had time to cut and run a cap test on the 3 pass section.Now that I know how wide the test strips are and what they should look like I can cut and grind them down my self.I think I did pretty good for my first ever bend test, with no instruction, running a set up that is impossible according to many.I don't expect to the root test in the 2 pass strip to survive, solution, try again and run a bigger root gap, do every thing 3 pass, go deep on the root pass.I guess I will find out later if the 2 pass root test survives, the 2 pass cap test "was expected to pass".Now I just need to get more of those test plates. A 1/4 or 3/8 inch test plate with .025 inch solid wire with pure CO2 would be fun. Attached Imagesold Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:But there's only one bend test plate you're showing us.  Not to be picky but...In that one picture, it looks like a tiny slag inclusion near the top. Multiple passes with a 110v and flux core is definitely "doable."  However it's like cheating. . After the first pass is made, the base metal is effectively "pre-heated" for the next pass.   Use a 220v machine and one pass can get'r done faster.  "Hey I didn't come to look and learn, I came to turn and burn.... If I can't light up, I'm gonna light out!"-JodyIdealarc 250 "Fatman"MM 252MM 211 "Little boy" Victor Torches
Reply:Yeah it had one spec of slag and the base metal had a mill defect. It didnt break, almost break or try to crack.I didnt preheat, I had to let it cool down enough to handle with gloves so I could pick out slag. Taking the grinder or wire wheel to it and leaving it too hot to touch for the next pass would have been too easy.Also I noticed the machine wasnt running any where near full power, between 60 and 70 amps.Its only 1 bend test but I will do more, as long as I can get bend test plates and have some one to bend them for me. Before that I need to get a new memory card for my digital camera, it takes much better pictures than my tablet or phone cam.I was planning to do relatively cold passes until they fail the bend test.They clearly band sawed my plate. Are plasma cutters or torches normally used to cut apart the plates for a bend test?Because if I can plasma cut the test plates and finish them my self we can put a lot more of them through the bend tester.Last edited by mad welder 4; 04-24-2014 at 10:14 AM.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:madw4; looks good. i would like to see what that would happen on a 1" plate in the vert or overhead position. my bet is it would pass.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:Here is what the AWS limited test looks like. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:CEP,Nice look'n set of coupons.   But, it doesn't look to me like it was done in accordance with the code reference (Fig. 5.19A) you posted.   For one thing it looks to me like you've got the test materials direction of rolling running parallel with the weld and not transverse to it.
Reply:For the AWS limited test you bend a face and root bend. For the AWS unlimited test they are side bends. Generally only 3/8-inch wide. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Hmmm I was just trying to do open root.I have seen bent tests before, a few years ago and they definitely were open root.That might have been that company's standard test.The AWS test with 1/4 inch wide root with a bar on the bottom. That seems absolutly doable. I think 3/8 inch test is thick enough, anything 1/4 inch and thicker I generally want to use the arc welder on. I figure if I can pass a bend test on 3/8 inch steel then I should be fine when welding the occasional 1/4 inch joint.If I have lots of 1/4 inch to do then the big 240v craftsman is coming out.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:You better not run innershield with gas not needed ,suprised it worked preheat and interpass temp are important .  Problem is not enough heat input with small welders . Hand tool clean only . We went through 800 welders to find 115 for the trade center . Our CWI is having the same problem at the TZ bridge .
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4I used the lincoln. With .035 inch flux core lincoln innershield wire. Welded half the plate with 2 passes, other half with 3 passes. With about 3L/min CO2 coverage, more to cool the tip than provide actual coverage.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPFor the AWS limited test you bend a face and root bend. For the AWS unlimited test they are side bends. Generally only 3/8-inch wide.
Reply:That is why I went with 3l/min. If I used 3L/min with solid wire it would be almost no difference compaired to running it with the gas turned off.It the flux core still blew spatter everywhere like normal.3L/min is like 5 or 6 cf/hr, I need to run 7L/min or 15 to 16 cf/hr bare minumum to keep the air out of a solid wire weld, most people run 20 to 25 cf/hr. Main reason was to cool the gun. Now that I think of it I believe I have seen long flux core tips in my spare parts box, hopefully they are .035 and there might be a gasless nozzle in there some where too.I am cheap, I would rather not run CO2. The flux core is expensive enough.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by PavinsteelmanYou better not run innershield with gas not needed ,suprised it worked preheat and interpass temp are important .  Problem is not enough heat input with small welders . Hand tool clean only . We went through 800 welders to find 115 for the trade center . Our CWI is having the same problem at the TZ bridge .
Reply:Originally Posted by 4956CEP,Nice look'n set of coupons.   But, it doesn't look to me like it was done in accordance with the code reference (Fig. 5.19A) you posted.   For one thing it looks to me like you've got the test materials direction of rolling running parallel with the weld and not transverse to it.
Reply:Quick question, is it normal to plasma cut the cap and root bend strips?Should I assume the side benders are too thin for hot cutting?I will side bend them too if I can get them cut, I had never even thought about that before.If I can plasma cut the test strips my self then I can have a lot more test strips put through the bend tester.Used bend strips look like they would make good trailer tie downs, as long as they pass with out splitting or breaking.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4Used bend strips look like they would make good trailer tie downs, as long as they pass with out splitting or breaking.
Reply:Sure you can use a plasma, or cutting torch to cut your coupons. Just grind everything. Use at least an 80-grit sanding pad to finish off the coupons, put a bevel on all edges with a mil file.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPSure you can use a plasma, or cutting torch to cut your coupons. Just grind everything. Use at least an 80-grit sanding pad to finish off the coupons, put a bevel on all edges with a mil file.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI don't think you and I are on the same page.
Reply:I never understood the “Direction of rolling” in those diagrams from the AWS D1.1 code book. To me they make no sense. But I've seen hundreds of coupons bent by CWI. Just like I do it, same as the video I posted too.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I get what you're saying 4956, the orientation of the plate should be grain running perpendicular to the weld so when it's ground it all goes the same way.At least that's what I'm thinking.Never paid any attention to that when we did them in school, or if I did, I know I forgot
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Yeah, you got to be real sharp to be a specialist! LMAO!
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI'll study up a bit
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopDoes cutting with a torch or plasma mess with the mechanical properties of the coupon???~John
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I get what you're saying 4956, the orientation of the plate should be grain running perpendicular to the weld so when it's ground it all goes the same way. Grain & grinding it the direction of the roll..Originally Posted by CEPGood! Then you can explain it to me.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPIf that is true, does it really make a difference? We don't always have the option to turn the plate /shape to be welded when building something.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveNo problem, I'm starting with this video - short quiz after to make sure I'm keeping up
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPMy new hero, that kid is awesome!
Reply:What's Jeff Foxworthy's line? Put a baseball cap on a pretty girl it just makes her more sexy. Put it on a guy, deduct 50 points from his I.Q. turn it around backwards, deduct 100.
Reply:CEP,I think you're beginning to grasp what I was getting at.  As to whether or not it makes a difference... well, in certain situations it's really critical.   If you're going to roll a piece of plate to form the shell of a pressure vessel you need to roll it so that the longitudinal weld seam down the can is going to be perpendicular to the direction of the plates original rolling direction.   Other wise you have a pretty serious code violation.  And as some one else has mentioned it can be a factor when bending plate.  Maybe not so much with plain vanilla A36, but the higher the strength plate the more critical it becomes.
Reply:His weld still passed right? His weld passed doing it the hard way, extra points?  CEP, I just noticed the little wire cup on your saw, never seen one on a bandsaw like that, is it for cleaning chips and lube off, or what trick of the trade?Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveNo problem, I'm starting with this video - short quiz after to make sure I'm keeping up
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247CEP, I just noticed the little wire cup on your saw, never seen one on a bandsaw like that, is it for cleaning chips and lube off, or what trick of the trade?
Reply:Originally Posted by M J DNot if you know what your doing. If you had a rough cut that needed lots of grinding or overheated the cut with a torch could be an issue.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749I get what you're saying 4956, the orientation of the plate should be grain running perpendicular to the weld so when it's ground it all goes the same way. Grain & grinding it the direction of the roll..At least that's what I'm thinking.Never paid any attention to that when we did them in school, or if I did, I know I forgot
Reply:I also weld a lot of C-channel end to end.When my big roll of 0.025 wire comes in I will weld up a C-channel for bend testing. I always grind a fillet grove, all around and weld all around The legs would give me 2 strips and the center section would give me 1. I always weld them single pass on each side and keep it hot when welding the other side. The thickest part is about 1/4 inch, but the wide flat part is around 1/8 inch, that is why I use mig on these.I also have some one who says they can x-ray small parts. Its a medical x-ray so not 100% sure it will work.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welder
Reply:Originally Posted by arqangel67That is a instructional video for Harbor Freight employee's.
Reply:Originally Posted by Willie BI don't get it! Is this kid trying to be funny? Does he imagine he's welding?
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveFrom what I understand of the story, he did think he was welding...He was immediately and vocally told he was not - over a long period of time
Reply:Forgive them father, for they know not what they do!
Reply:CEP,What I do to cut up plates for these test assemblies is to get a piece of 6" x 3/8" HRFB and stand it up on edge in the saw.   Then set the saw for 22 degrees and saw down thru it.  In fact I usually double stack the material so that each saw cut yields two plates.   This leaves you with a saw cut bevel and the grain of the material (direction of rolling) running the right way.
Reply:Another place where this whole direction of rolling and strength of material in relation to grain comes in to play is on the ends of pressure vessels and pipe.   It's the reason why they use a formed domed end on things and not weld on a flat circle cut out of plate.
Reply:Originally Posted by mad welder 4...I also have some one who says they can x-ray small parts. Its a medical x-ray so not 100% sure it will work.
Reply:I have to agree with what DAB said above.   The chances of using medical X-ray equipment to get any kind of useable image of even small welded metal parts is really, really slim.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4956CEP,What I do to cut up plates for these test assemblies is to get a piece of 6" x 3/8" HRFB and stand it up on edge in the saw.   Then set the saw for 22 degrees and saw down thru it.  In fact I usually double stack the material so that each saw cut yields two plates.   This leaves you with a saw cut bevel and the grain of the material (direction of rolling) running the right way.
Reply:CEP,Huh, I guess that's just further proof that great minds tend to think a like.   I've cut some 1 x 8 the same way for the unlimited thickness test.   Also it looks like you and I have the same saw.
Reply:I've been called a lot of things in my time, but never a great mind. Generally the word starts with an F!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI've been called a lot of things in my time, but never a great mind
Reply:CEP,I see on your equipment list that you have a CNC plasma set up.   I've got the file to cut the parts for one of these T-Rexs if you're interested.