any shop door builders?

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my shop needs a new door, (when I converted the barn in to the farm shop) I put in a used over head door cost me $35 and have used it for close to 20 years, (it is close to wore out), and the buck goats, were kind of hard on the bottom panels. it is 13 foot wide and 13 foot high. (we are in a high wind area, like today there forecasting wind of 40+),  we have had 80+ for 20+ hours at one time,   and wind pressure builds in front of the barn.  so a lot sticking out in front of the building is not a plus, but if I would put a walk in door in the over head door would save opening it a lot,  with either the bifold or solid I could add a walk in door in the over head, I am considering a bifold door  I like the idea of this guys with the extended hinges ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~or a single piece door and make a roller track similar to the DIY Ultimate Door,  the pdf flyer will not up load,  http://ultimatedoor.homestead.com/ultimate.html#basically there is a curved, track that keeps the door going up and for more clearance  and it is balanced to where half is in the building and half is out of the building, (would lose a few inches of door height).~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~my idea was to use a 1x3 rectangle tube ( guessing 10 gauge) to build the frame of either of the ideasany one have suggestions and or experience building one?thank you.
Reply:I'll be curious to hear the replies, I've started dreaming up one a little bigger than your planning, I think I would go bi-fold myself, I priced a conventional insulated overhead with automatic opener at about 4 grand so when I look at time and materials it's probably a toss up.
Reply:either an insulated paneled garage door with a walk through or uninsulated that you can insulate on your own running on tracks.., depending how much you have to spend..and you can open from a few inches to ventilate the shop in the cold or wide open in the summer..Of all the things I lost I miss my mind the most...I know just enough about everything to be dangerous......You cant cure stupid..only kill it...
Reply:Having worked in hangars that were equipped with both bifold and the solid panel lift doors I would prefer the bi fold design.  That being said for the prevailing wind conditions you describe and the lack of need for a 40+ foot clear span opening, I think a metal roll up garage door would better suit your needs.  Blowing open a hangar door in those winds is dicey at best.  We really did not like to do it unless an absolute necessity.  The bypass side rolling doors were a different deal.  You could open them in any weather.  The major draw back to the design was the over running track on the outside of the door opening and the opener motors needing a lot of care to keep the wiring from tangling and getting cut.  Can you build your own door?  I know folks who have done it.  They copied the Erect-A-Tube design and had a properly spec'ed beam or well engineered truss that would carry the head load of the door in an all up position with a safety factor of 5XRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:I sure am glad to see your post.  I want or am thinking about building a 24 wide and 14 ft high  one piece door or  bi fold door out of 2 x2 x1/4 and 3/16 square tubing for the frame to go in the end of metal building.   I have seen some commercial ones at airports that use wide straps and electric motor to raise and lower.   I figured I would watch for someone on the welding web to throw out some ideas.   Hope several of you folks chime in with some good ideas.  Thanks  Richey
Reply:SubscribedNow I lay me down to sleep, by the bed a Colt I do keep.Should I wake and find you inside, a coroner van is your next ride.
Reply:this type of door might be a good choice http://www.powerliftdoors.com/main/
Reply:Looks expensive.Now I lay me down to sleep, by the bed a Colt I do keep.Should I wake and find you inside, a coroner van is your next ride.
Reply:i dont know what they cost. they are pretty simple and it wouldnt take much to make one .Last edited by K98dkmauser; 02-25-2015 at 10:02 PM.
Reply:Looks like it wouldn't be too hard to build . Especially in a smaller size like the 24 wide x 14 high I had in mind.  I wonder what holds the door in place if the hyd line blows or the o ring seals go bad in the cylinder?
Reply:Nice doors for sure, but around here with the wind they wouldn't last the week.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:wyoroy that's  a good point regarding high wind.  When the tornadoes hit our farm last April our farm/shop building had a 16 wide x14 tall industrial roll up door sucked to the outside of the track by the rotation of the wind. The door wasn't pulled completely off the track but buckled to the outside and bowed in the center.  It was a very heavy gage door. The tornado didn't touch where that particular building was but did touch down about 300 yards from the building.  Just thankful the whole building wasn't removed from the face of the earth like many of our neighbors homes were.  Its tough to get the right door combination when one is exposed to high winds.
Reply:Richey, winds are a problem here as well. Current place has sliding exterior doors...leak like a sieve and are going to be difficult to insulate properly plus the base track(s) have to be cleared of snow quickly before ice forms and makes the doors permanent features. My old shop had roll-up style garage doors, one electric, one manual, nice enough but a pain due to ceiling clearance. The mines used what looked like commercial security doors for their overhead doors. Looks to be the best solution as the ceiling headspace is only out from the wall a couple feet...but I'm betting they cost more than what I'd want to spend.  So far, for the money and convenience, those bi-folds are starting to look like the deal. Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Yes sir that photo looks like what we have.  Bought them used several years ago.  So far so good until one got a little bowed by the suction.   My friend in Texas has a couple of u shaped pieces , one of either side of his door about halfway up.  He installed a piece of 2x2  3/16 tubing that goes from left to right across the width of his door to keep the high winds from bowing it in the center and making it jump out of the tracks.
Reply:This guy built his own bi-fold hangar door and documented the process of installation.  He brings out several good details in his webpage on the build.  Well worth the read.http://www.n56ml.com/hangar/Richey a 24'X14' clear span would be a good candidate for a bi-fold IMHO.  The doors get locked to the jam by a cam lock and on some I have seen a screw mechanism lock.  On one museum restoration that was in the hangar for an extended period of time, the door was sealed closed by adding a second set of cam locks to the upper panels and a wide sealing skirt around the perimeter.  It kept the wind and rain out well for the 3 years we worked on that DC-3.  When we needed to move the airframe outside for assembly it was no real trouble to open the door again.RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Rog02   Thank you very much for the information and advice.     I appreciate the link also.   Were the doors lifted with cable or wide straps?
Reply:Well I wasn't finished when I hit send.  Were the doors at the hanger you worked on while rebuilding the DC-3 lifted with cable or wide straps?  I have viewed the link on the n56ml site and this is exactly what I am looking for.    Excellent referral   Thanks . Richey
Reply:All the hangars I have been in use cables.  The webbing would work well if it were a single point or multiple winches were used but cable makes it easier to route the lift mechanism to a single winch.  This makes even actuation a snap.  Multiple winches will have the possibility of lifting at slightly different rated and binding the door.  in your application where high wind loading is a possibility I think the addition of the upper panel locks might be prudent.  Under normal circumstances they are not needed but could be latched in the case of inclement weather.  The single panel latches held fine in 50 knot gust condition but the door did "breath a bit".RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Thanks good point about he double latch.
Reply:I upgraded to a roll up door and it cost me 1/4 of my original segmented overhead track door.I helped pour the slabs on two 360 ft long storage buildings a few years ago....you know, those typical metal rental storage buildings you see on the outskirts of suburbia that have roll up doors......Anyway, I yanked the tag off one of their doors and called they guys. I was flattened by the low price they wanted for a door shipped to my zip and ordered one. It arrived and I had it installed next day almost by myself if you count my drugged out nephew.WOW!, no more overhead tracks and cables and pulleys and springs, and it rolled up n down with fingertip pressure and still does today.Nope, it ain't insulated and can't be made insulated, but by golly it sure beats any door that is, because it doesn't weight a ton and don't shield my shop lights when open and it don't need overhead rails and allows me to swing materials full rafter height and costs SO much less than ANY other door around.Don't shop roll up doors at the big box guys, but instead the guys that supply rental building folks that buy them by the hundreds. Mine has been installed over ten years and goes uppity down and roundy round just like it did the day I bought it.For cost comparison, mine is 10' wide, by 8 foot tall, and cost $215 delivered to my local door retailer in one box. We get hurrycanes down here in Lousyanna and so far it has only rattled when my roof shingles flew North...That door was cheaper by the square foot than the walls of the rest of my shop.
Reply:What's the name on the door, Wornout?Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyWhat's the name on the door, Wornout?
Reply:Wornout, don't put yourself out. I should have been out in the shop doing insulation work so I can get around to do the electrical, but at 8 degrees and the weatherunnerground telling me it feels like -2 I just haven't motorvated...EDIT: It isn't like I'm going to need the information any time soon!Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Ok, here is  pic of tag from manufacturer applied in right side upper rail.Help yerself looking the up.It turned out it ain't near dark outside and a few folks passing by out on the hwy blowed at me out there in my undies, so I hope you are happy. My biggest worry now is the widow next door saw me will be beating on my door demanding I eat some crap she cooked yesterday and frown at me cause I smell like Jack and wear pink panties.Nah, I don't wear panties, but I like gals that do. I do drink Jack this time o day tho and watch only stuff like Breaking Bad and Deadwood and keep the wood stove fed.Ok, partner, you got a pic and can Google it to death....Smooch
Reply:LOL, that label even reveals the name of the retailer I had them ship it to, "The Best Little Door House."  Alexandria, La.I couldn't get my head in there, but I think the tag reads "doors and building components"Right above the label I noticed several mud dauber nests and was glad to see them...Those wasps fill their mud nests with spiders-especially black widow spiders, so I'm glad to see they haunt my shop.Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 02-26-2015 at 06:39 PM.Thanks Wornout. Used to spend many a night over in Lawton back in the early '70s when a pool cue on the backseat floorboard and a Buck knife in your back pocket would get you out of most scrapes. Helped build that giant orange backing up the water over at Tom Steed Res.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:You folks with barns and shops need to be aware that the mud dauber wasp is your friend. Yeah, she builds lots of organ pipe looking mud nests, but she will never sting you unless you try to handle her. What she does for you is build a mud tube nest, then search your shop for spiders-especially black widow spiders, then paralyze them and stuff them in a tube and lay an egg there before she seals it up and builds another mud tube next to it...If you got mud dauber nests in you shop or barn, then you got a spider problem, and you need to allow them wasps to haunt there and not destroy their nests. They will re use them year after year.I got bit on the back of my head by a brown recluse about 2 years ago and the doc had to remove a huge piece of my neck skin and scalp to stop the spread and infection just a few days after the bite...A brown recluse or a black widow can't hide from a mud dauber wasp for long if you allow her to hunt your hood.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyThanks Wornout. Used to spend many a night over in Lawton back in the early '70s when a pool cue on the backseat floorboard and a Buck knife in your back pocket would get you out of most scrapes. Helped build that giant orange backing up the water over at Tom Steed Res.
Reply:Granddad was from N. Carolina and moved to Oklahoma back in the late 1800. Had a livery stable down in S.E. Oklahoma until he found out that the land he bought to build it on wasn't owned by the fellow he bought it from. Moved over and farmed between Snyder and Manitou before moving to Memphis, TX back in the '30s to run a tourist court and gas station. I'm just a Kansas boy myself that moved back to the Mtn. Park area for that dam job. Don't remember either Do-Do Park or Lassalle's Ice Cream plant...sorry. Used to head over to Cache at night and watch the military dropping napalm for practice on the military reservation.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:One like this?Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyGranddad was from N. Carolina and moved to Oklahoma back in the late 1800. Had a livery stable down in S.E. Oklahoma until he found out that the land he bought to build it on wasn't owned by the fellow he bought it from. Moved over and farmed between Snyder and Manitou before moving to Memphis, TX back in the '30s to run a tourist court and gas station. I'm just a Kansas boy myself that moved back to the Mtn. Park area for that dam job. Don't remember either Do-Do Park or Lassalle's Ice Cream plant...sorry. Used to head over to Cache at night and watch the military dropping napalm for practice on the military reservation.
Reply:My dad was a drill instructor at Ft. Sill during WWII until he talked his way into going overseas...blind in one eye and about the same in the other. Spent the remainder of the war as a medic and after V.E. Day helped command a trucking outfit made up of P.O.W.s. Told me the German P.O.W.s could and would steal anything...had 17 trucks too many right before inspection one time. German officer asked why they would give an English speaking German cartons of cigarettes before going into the warehouse area over there. After it was explained to him that the cigarettes were for greasing the palms of the P.O.W.s there to get new motors for the trucks, the German showed them how to do the job better...park an old truck next to a new one, swap the hoods and drive off with the new/old truck. To his dying day, with a few too many beers, the old man would reminisce about France and be singing French songs well into the night.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Uncle Lee had a welding shop across that old dirt road from us south of Lawton. He slept days and drank and worked nights like I do now. He would light my bedroom with welding flashes and hammer stuff and cuss and I'd push my bed up to the window and rest my chin in the window sill and watch and listen to him....He was like Thor with his hammer and made the dark retreat when he struck an arc.His face was deeply scared from knife fights and his green eyes glinted deadly serious except when he looked at me....I'd sneak out my window and work with him in shop many nights.Some nights we would pile into his old ford car and go sideways down dirt roads and I'd wait while he ran over a hill and stole something out of some barn, then race sideways home.Some nights Boots Gentry would drive up in his great big finned Caddy and they would ease off together and return just before daylight. Boots wore silver tipped boots and ran whiskey plus whatever paid best.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyMy dad was a drill instructor at Ft. Sill during WWII until he talked his way into going overseas...blind in one eye and about the same in the other. Spent the remainder of the war as a medic and after V.E. Day helped command a trucking outfit made up of P.O.W.s. Told me the German P.O.W.s could and would steal anything...had 17 trucks too many right before inspection one time. German officer asked why they would give an English speaking German cartons of cigarettes before going into the warehouse area over there. After it was explained to him that the cigarettes were for greasing the palms of the P.O.W.s there to get new motors for the trucks, the German showed them how to do the job better...park an old truck next to a new one, swap the hoods and drive off with the new/old truck. To his dying day, with a few too many beers, the old man would reminisce about France and be singing French songs well into the night.
Reply:here is the idea of the one piece door I was thinking of, from the flyer of the http://ultimatedoor.homestead.com/ultimate.html#it is lifted by cables on each end from the middle of the door,  but half of the door is in and half is out of the building and the there is not the need for a reinforced front on the building to hold the bifold out.this company sells a kit and you build the door, it self,  I would probably build more than just the door, Attached ImagesLast edited by Farmerboy; 02-26-2015 at 09:51 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Farmerboyhere is the idea of the one piece door I was thinking of, from the flyer of the http://ultimatedoor.homestead.com/ultimate.html#it is lifted by cables on each end from the middle of the door,  but half of the door is in and half is out of the building and the there is not the need for a reinforced front on the building to hold the bifold out.this company sells a kit and you build the door, it self,  I would probably build more than just the door,
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopOne like this?
Reply:Originally Posted by Rog02Ak that looks to be an Erect-a-Tube bifold door judging from the skin material and the hinge offset at the fold line.  Good doors.  I have worked and flown out of many  hangars with that door.  Never gave a lick of trouble.  That is like the hangar doors on Hangar #1 at MKC.  The original TWA hangar.  Those were about 80 foot span doors and were just flat-*** scary to open in wind speeds above 20 knots.  To the contrary, they had MASSIVE supports overhead and required another clear span beam where the rear of the guide tracks mounted.  You lost about 4 foot of the opening height to the door at that hangar.  The lifting mechanism has to support the full weight of the door and the tip transition can be rather jerky and erratic unless the door is perfectly adjusted.  I, myself prefer the bi-fold design.
Reply:been thinking of the one piece door Idea, and instead of using overhead track use a swinging arm, and for better stability, my thought was to a tube or shaft, connecting both arms, The only  track would be the one that runs straight up for the middle hinge point to ride in,  and would be lifted by a winch system above it,  each side, the door would be lifted at the balance point, or very near, the out side, would half to be a little heaver than the top it would lower properly. Attached Images
Reply:I'm trying to get a mental pic of the Bi-fold and keep coming up with a small problem. Starting with the door open, As it gets to the closed position.....The door would be slightly broke open at the middle hinge. Would you have to pull it at the middle hinge to the inside of the building to get it to shut properly, or does the weight of the door overcome this?Now I lay me down to sleep, by the bed a Colt I do keep.Should I wake and find you inside, a coroner van is your next ride.
Reply:Also on the cable travel.....How is that figured out?Now I lay me down to sleep, by the bed a Colt I do keep.Should I wake and find you inside, a coroner van is your next ride.
Reply:Never mind the cable question. I didn't think it through.Now I lay me down to sleep, by the bed a Colt I do keep.Should I wake and find you inside, a coroner van is your next ride.
Reply:Yes sir I had to think about it too. I think we are going to go with a 15 ft high by 24 ft wide  on the ones we are going to do.   We already got some 12ft x 24 ft 2x2 x 3/16in frames built that I think we can cut and make into the folding doors pretty easy.  If only my son had time to get his building erected.
Reply:Originally Posted by phillipI'm trying to get a mental pic of the Bi-fold and keep coming up with a small problem. Starting with the door open, As it gets to the closed position.....The door would be slightly broke open at the middle hinge. Would you have to pull it at the middle hinge to the inside of the building to get it to shut properly, or does the weight of the door overcome this?