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I am looking at installing a hand torch on a tracing table. This is just an experiment as I wanted to get away from O/A but now I wonder if I have enough juice for the plasma cutters too.
Reply:How would one know without info on your available power supply and existing loads? How much simultaneous use?30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:The question is more about getting started with it with the cutter I have. Looking for pitfalls as I really no nothing about it.I had no idea the power consumption of these things. Looks like 120 amp draw for 2 cutmaster 152's on 3 phase. Double it for single. Insult to injury 60% duty cycle getting about 60" of cut.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikThe question is more about getting started with it with the cutter I have. Looking for pitfalls as I really no nothing about it.I had no idea the power consumption of these things. Looks like 120 amp draw for 2 cutmaster 152's on 3 phase. Double it for single. Insult to injury 60% duty cycle getting about 60" of cut.
Reply:It is not a dual phase like a Dynasty, you can just get it set up differently.
Reply:Maybe I said it wrong. Dual phase is likely not the right term. Most 3-phase equipment can not be converted to single phase. If yours can be, great! It will draw a lot more current on single phase and have less of a duty cycle.30+ yrs Army Infantry & Field Artillery, 25 yrs agoMiller 350LX Tig Runner TA 210, spool gunLincoln 250/250 IdealArcESAB PCM 500i PlasmaKazoo 30" vert BSKazoo 9x16 horiz BSClausing 12x24 lathe20T Air Press
Reply:A Dynasty is capable of this operating on three or single. The Cutmaster is not but can be purchased like this.http://www.victortechnologies.com/th...5Code=&W6Code=
Reply:Good to go they make a machine torch for the 152 too.
Reply:118 amp draw on 230 volts (240) single phase input. on the A-120 Thermal. Remember that would probably only happen long arcing on some 2 inch material.(maybe, but I doubt it) It's the automation version of the 152.. They have a 208 to 460 volt 1/3 phase version. One thing about Thermal now Victor. They do tend to post the extreme examples on the current input use on their machines.. Might fudge other things, but never that one. In fact I usually find it almost always goes the other way there. Kind of like Lincoln does on their Invertec V-350 pro machine . Really high numbers on single phase input, but everyone welds just fine on a 60 amp 240 volt single phase circuit. It was up there with the Cutmaster in single phase input draw.. I guess they just like frightening the sheepleLast edited by Brand X; 08-17-2014 at 11:54 AM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:Originally Posted by storeman Most 3-phase equipment can not be converted to single phase. If yours can be, great! It will draw a lot more current on single phase and have less of a duty cycle.
Reply:I was calculating the input for two cutters cutting simultaneous. Wow, I just spelled simultaneous correctly.I have never overloaded my cutter and I have run it wide open cutting 20ft sections of 1/2 plate non stop but by the specifications of the cutmaster 52 I should have.All is well! All is well! We are going to get it done properly. Jim Colt has been kind enough to help out figuring out what is best for us. I am going to sleep good tonight.Last edited by mikecwik; 08-17-2014 at 07:00 PM.
Reply:Don't forget to add the load your air compressor will draw.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by mikecwikI was calculating the input for two cutters cutting simultaneous. Wow, I just spelled simultaneous correctly.I have never overloaded my cutter and I have run it wide open cutting 20ft sections of 1/2 plate non stop but by the specifications of the cutmaster 52 I should have.All is well! All is well! We are going to get it done properly. Jim Colt has been kind enough to help out figuring out what is best for us. I am going to sleep good tonight.
Reply:It seems that Powermax 105 is comparable to the cutmaster 152. Maybe a little less duty cycle but cutting speeds seems to be about the same. Looking at the input current draw it also also about the same, around 60 Amps on 3 phase 208V.It should be interesting to see what Hypertherms recommends.
Reply:The A120, also known as the 152 specs in comparison to the Hypertherm Powermax105 and the Powermax125 A120/CM152 Powermax105 Powermax125Amperage: 120 105 125Load Voltage: 128 160 175Duty Cycle: 60% 80% 100%Killowatt output: 15.4 16.8 21.8The Hypertherm PMX105 actually produces more cutting power (16.8kW vs 15.4kW) as compared to the 120 amp Victor unit.....and at a higher duty cycle. The Powermax125 is rated at 100% duty at 175 arc volts and 125 amps.....21.8kW.Keep in mind that it is kilowatt output that produces cutting speed and thickness capability, not amperage.Jim Colt Hypertherm Originally Posted by Brand X118 amp draw on 230 volts (240) single phase input. on the A-120 Thermal. Remember that would probably only happen long arcing on some 2 inch material.(maybe, but I doubt it) It's the automation version of the 152.. They have a 208 to 460 volt 1/3 phase version. One thing about Thermal now Victor. They do tend to post the extreme examples on the current input use on their machines.. Might fudge other things, but never that one. In fact I usually find it almost always goes the other way there. Kind of like Lincoln does on their Invertec V-350 pro machine . Really high numbers on single phase input, but everyone welds just fine on a 60 amp 240 volt single phase circuit. It was up there with the Cutmaster in single phase input draw.. I guess they just like frightening the sheeple
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltThe A120, also known as the 152 specs in comparison to the Hypertherm Powermax105 and the Powermax125 A120/CM152 Powermax105 Powermax125Amperage: 120 105 125Load Voltage: 128 160 175Duty Cycle: 60% 80% 100%Killowatt output: 15.4 16.8 21.8The Hypertherm PMX105 actually produces more cutting power (16.8kW vs 15.4kW) as compared to the 120 amp Victor unit.....and at a higher duty cycle. The Powermax125 is rated at 100% duty at 175 arc volts and 125 amps.....21.8kW.Keep in mind that it is kilowatt output that produces cutting speed and thickness capability, not amperage.Jim Colt Hypertherm
Reply:Agreed. I think if you had a Powermax, a Cutmaster and a Powercut on the same table cutting at the same output amperage, the same thickness and the same cut speed....you would see that the KW consumption at the inlet is almost identical. The specs for each unit are Maximum kW usage....which means cutting the thickest factory rated materials at maximum amperage. The Plasma cutter that has the ability to cut thicker and faster (because it has a higher OUTPUT kW rating) will draw the most power at the input, but only if it was cutting thicker/faster, as the kw usage is related to amperage/arc voltage and power supply efficiency. These inverters are all pretty close as far as efficiency goes.....so if you are cutting 1" steel at 105 amps with all three...expect the power cost to be the same.You got a killer price on that Victor unit! Good deal!Jim Colt
Reply:Originally Posted by jimcoltThe A120, also known as the 152 specs in comparison to the Hypertherm Powermax105 and the Powermax125 A120/CM152 Powermax105 Powermax125Amperage: 120 105 125Load Voltage: 128 160 175Duty Cycle: 60% 80% 100%Killowatt output: 15.4 16.8 21.8...Jim Colt Hypertherm
Reply:Sorry, My oversight on duty cycle for the Cutmaster when operated on 3 phase. You are correct that the 105 (and the 125) are 3 phase only. The Powermax duty cycles are all rated at the arc voltage required to cut the maximum production thickness that they are rated for. So....the 105 is production rated (pierce capacity) for 7/8" steel, which requires 160 volts @ 105 amps to cut (16.8 kW), and that rating is done at the IEC standard ambient temp of 104 degrees F, 40 C. The Powermax105 will easily go to over 180 arc volts, as is necessary when cutting thicker materials, the rating in the manual does not mean that is the maximum threshold arc voltage. IEC does not tell plasma manufacturers how to rate their duty cycles.....except that the rated voltage/duty cycle must be done at their 104F ambient temp.The duty cycle and (voltage rating) of the Cutmaster of 128 volts will not cut 1" material. When you cut 1"...the arc voltage will be considerably higher (I think....based on my experience) so expect the duty cycle to be lower on the Cutmaster when cutting beyond its rated pierce capacity of 3/4". Originally Posted by Pete.S.That's not right. The duty cycle for the cutmaster 152 you quoted is for 1 phase, not 3 phase. Look at my post above, straight from the 2012 users manual. The powermax 105/125 can't do 1 phase at all from what I figure.Also from powermax 105 manual 2012, page 1-6, the Powermax 105 only have 80% duty cycle if you run it on 3 phase 480V, on 3 ph 208 volts it is only 54%. I thought that was what we talked about, or perhaps I was mistaken and it's 3 ph 480V?Regarding output power the cutmaster 152 can according to examples in the manual do at least 180V @ 120A, duty cycle unknown. The powermax 105 can't do 180V (only 160V) and it can't do 120A (only 105A). According to Victor duty cycle values are according to IEC standard. Hypertherm doesn't specify how they determined their duty cycle values as far as I can figure out.
Reply:The point I was trying to make.....the Hypertherm systems use the actual voltage required to cut the thickness they are advertised for as production cut thickness. This is the voltage that the duty cycle is also rated at. Since the Powermax105 is rated as a 7/8" production machine (it will pierce and cut at over 20 ipm on this thickness), its duty cycle is rated for cutting this thickness.....with the required arc voltage of 160 volts....which can be verified on the cut charts provided in the operators manual.For some reason, the Cutmaster152 uses a lower voltage (128 volts) when rating its duty cycle. If you look at the cut chart for the 152 at 120 amps.....it requires 163 volts to cut the rated production thickness of 3/4". 163 volts at 120 amps will reduce the duty cycle. In fact.....cutting 1/4" steel at 120 amps with the Cutmaster requires 134 volts....even that thickness uses more arc voltage than the duty cycle is rated for....which will result in a less than advertised duty cycle rating.IEC does not dictate the kW rating for power supply manufacturers...rather it says that duty cycle ratings must be done at an ambient temp of 104F. You cannot compare the duty cycle ratings between the Cutmaster and the Powermax units....as the Powermax units are rated under tougher, higher output conditions. Using the Victor protocol...the Hypertherm duty cycles would be much higher.All plasma cutters can cut much thicker and at higher arc voltages than advertised. The power supply works harder and builds more heat to do this, which effectively causes the duty cycle to be lower.Hypertherm and Esab plasma cutters use much tougher duty cycle standards than any other manufacturers I have seen. Many manufacturers today...especially the low cost imports.....claim a percentage duty cycle with no voltage, amperage or ambient temperature to back it up.One more point....running a higher powered unit on single phase will always increase input current draw and will decrease duty cycles. Increased input current draw will require larger wiring conductors, larger breakers/fuses, etc., which certainly adds some cost to the installation. Hypertherm has drawn the line at single phase plasma cutters below 100 amps, three phase only above 100 amps for these reasons. Jim Colt HyperthermLast edited by jimcolt; 08-19-2014 at 09:41 AM.
Reply:I am happy Victor has decided to give me the choice on wiring size input needs for single phase use. Leaves it up to me to decide what works best for me. Esab, and Hypertherm do not.. Just another good option to look at.. I believe for production cutting victor does not seem to overate the machine. 5/8 is where they have it. Seem reasonable enough.. http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...August2013.pdfWhat happens if you apply a different way to look at things on single phase 230/ 240 input. all at 104 degrees..Hypertherm 85/ 100 % duty-cycle/ 66 amps/143 arc volts = 9438 Killowatt output.Victor A-120/ 100% duty-cycle /100 amps/120 arc volts = 12,000 Killowatt output.PS- I don't think the A-120 is a better machine then a Hypertherm 85 or Esab 1600, but I do think it's a nice option for some people. Many People have switched from the Thermal 152 to the Hypertherm 85. Still does not mean the 152/120 is not a real viable option for cutting metal.Last edited by Brand X; 08-19-2014 at 11:38 AM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:I agree....the 152 is a good machine. Just don't let amperage alone make your decision, calculate the wattage in order to determine real power comparisons. I suspect the 152 is about the only 120 amp plasma that will run on single phase power.....however the required fuse/breaker size when operated on 230 volts single phase is 125 amps, and the wiring will require 4 AWG wires. This is expensive wiring!Jim
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XI am happy Victor has decided to give me the choice on wiring size input needs for single phase use. Leaves it up to me to decide what works best for me. Esab, and Hypertherm do not.. Just another good option to look at.. I believe for production cutting victor does not seem to overate the machine. 5/8 is where they have it. Seem reasonable enough.. http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Upl...August2013.pdfWhat happens if you apply a different way to look at things on single phase 230/ 240 input. all at 104 degrees..Hypertherm 85/ 100 % duty-cycle/ 66 amps/143 arc volts = 9438 Killowatt output.Victor A-120/ 100% duty-cycle /100 amps/120 arc volts = 12,000 Killowatt output.PS- I don't think the A-120 is a better machine then a Hypertherm 85 or Esab 1600, but I do think it's a nice option for some people. Many People have switched from the Thermal 152 to the Hypertherm 85. Still does not mean the 152/120 is not a real viable option for cutting metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammre: Cutmaster thickness ratingsI was very pleased with my little CM52, and the fact that it was an honest rating for cutting thickness. It happily does 1/2" plate with no hiccups. It's all I ever ask from it, and it performs pretty good. My needs never come close to a production type of service rating, so I'm pretty pleased.
Reply:http://victortechnologies.com/produc...rodID=1-5130-1 This is my machine, the specs are different from what you looked at"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/I looked at some spec sheets for the automated CM's, and the CM52 seems to be pretty close to the A60. The specs vary though, the A60 is rated a tad bit less on production cutting, but that makes sense. I don't believe my machine is a production type machine even though it's rated 100% at 50ampshttp://www.victortechnologies.com/Vi...August2013.pdf"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:You remember when I bought it Bought the next size down, and returned it in order to buy the bigger machine. Drove the doods nuts at the store But they did better on the bigger machine. It was one that had sat for a while without selling (not really a big seller with the hobbiests they said) and I got a decent price on it. I've never done wrong dealing with these guys. I even tried to buy the mag drill from them, but they only handle Milwaukee"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Same machine, took the Voltage /duty-cycle/amps Right out of your Manual.A-40 = CM52........60 amp machineA-60 = CM-82 ......80 amp machineLast edited by Brand X; 08-19-2014 at 05:33 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:check the pdf link in post #26 again. The A40 maxes out at 40amps, and the A60 maxes out at 60amps.BTW, the drill showed up at the gate a few minutes ago It didn't arrive DOA, but it wasn't a stellar delivery job either. The UPS people obviously blew out the bottom of the packing box, and left it with the blown out side facing down on the driveway. I suppose they thought I'd use the little punch out handles in the box to lift it, the bottom would fall out, and I WOULD THINK I RUINED THE BOX As it turned out, Thank God, I picked it up from the bottom because I didn't see the little cutout hand holes, and walked it up to the house, then opened it in the kitchen. The carrying case hinge is damaged, but the drill is in good condition, so..........probably just live with it. Looks like the hinge can be pried onto the pins with a screwdriver. NOW THE PROUD OWNER OF THE HOUGEN HMD904s ADJUSTABLE BASE DRILL"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I looked at the specs again, you were right the A40 is 60amps"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammI looked at the specs again, you were right the A40 is 60amps
Reply:A-120 Showed up today, Beat up some. (terrible pack job) Somewhat pissed, but already straighten some parts. Going see if can get a rebate to repair some of the other issues. Now on to cutting.. Only had one 120 nozzle nozzle (Unshielded) ,and a machine torch.. Set a piece of two inch up to sever,goes through it, but would be better with a hand torch/. Main thing was to make a few cuts to see if my 100 amp feed would handle it. Compressor kicked on, (true Curtis 5hp) All my lights, fans going. No issues with snapping breakers. Really happy about that. I might sever something by hand at some point, but never use that much power or draw on my table. Next up some 5/8 mild steel Cut at 60 ipm real easy. Pretty decent cut, and slowed it down to about 55. to remove most of the bevel About 10 ipm over book speeds. This machine has much more speed then a 85 amp Hypertherm. or 90 amp Esab. Basically about 20 IPM faster when using unshielded to compare too. The amp draw was exactly what I thought it be. Non issue... I will say the cut face was pretty nice considering 120 amps output. I would probably use 80 for the cleanest cut overall on that thickness . I use 70 amps on my Esab with excellent results.. Thermal has 50-55/ 60/70/80 nozzles to fine tune that.. Happy about the machine but the Shipper should be horse whipped.. Laid it in a box loose. That's after I give them instructions to follow or how to ship a machine correct. Morons.. It's going to be one fine hand held unit, that no single/three phase unit come close to it's power level. Use standard 100 amp wiring, and I don't see any issues for normal use. Impressive power. for the home/small fab shop..Last edited by Brand X; 08-21-2014 at 01:48 AM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:The boss man bitched at me for not smacking him in the head earlier about getting plasma. He must not have been paying attention as it was the first thing out of my mouth on the initial shop tour.He is like a kid at Christmas with this thing. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 22:07:57