Some welds from work, opinions?

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So here's some tripple pass welds that I laid the other day on some lifting loops at work, bare with me I was pretty unsteady laying these but what are your opinions? I've been welding all the fittings and lifting loops on the tanks that we build for our company for the past month most of the leadmen tell me I'm a pretty damn good welder, just want to learn as much as I can to be better in this trade.
Reply:looks good to me.
Reply:Thanks appreciate it, just needs to be more steady little squirly.
Reply:Steady will come with more practice. Doing well thus far.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:Originally Posted by milomiloSteady will come with more practice. Doing well thus far.
Reply:Looks fine from here Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveLooks fine from here
Reply:What rods were you using? They look more like 7014/24 than 7018 and a couple look a little cold almost like they were done down hill. More info on how they were done please.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveWhat rods were you using? They look more like 7014/24 than 7018 and a couple look a little cold almost like they were done down hill. More info on how they were done please.
Reply:Looks good.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveWhat rods were you using? They look more like 7014/24 than 7018 and a couple look a little cold almost like they were done down hill. More info on how they were done please.
Reply:MIG and Innershield are two different things but I'd guess Innershield from the pictures and that would explain why a couple of them look cold. I hate to the bearer of bad news but downhill isn't a good choice for welding something like a lifting lug. For the majority of applications downhill isn't recommended as it has low penetration. The one application where downhill is used extensively is in pipelining but that's a specialty in itself with special wires designed for it. The welds in your 2nd and 3rd pic (on the right) look cold and not much penetration. How big and heavy are these tanks? Your company may need to re-evaluate it's welding procedures. Flat or horizontal would be a much better choice mechanically. It's not your fault if someone higher up doesn't know but it's generally common knowledge. If they know and are telling you to do it downhill, they're aren't teaching very well.Last edited by Welder Dave; 02-23-2015 at 01:04 AM.
Reply:Looking good, practice makes perfect as they say....
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveMIG and Innershield are two different things but I'd guess Innershield from the pictures and that would explain why a couple of them look cold. I hate to the bearer of bad news but downhill isn't a good choice for welding something like a lifting lug. For the majority of applications downhill isn't recommended as it has low penetration. The one application where downhill is used extensively is in pipelining but that's a specialty in itself with special wires designed for it. The welds in your 2nd and 3rd pic (on the right) look cold and not much penetration. How big and heavy are these tanks? Your company may need to re-evaluate it's welding procedures. Flat or horizontal would be a much better choice mechanically. It's not your fault if someone higher up doesn't know but it's generally common knowledge. If they know and are telling you to do it downhill, they're aren't teaching very well.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveMIG and Innershield are two different things but I'd guess Innershield from the pictures and that would explain why a couple of them look cold. I hate to the bearer of bad news but downhill isn't a good choice for welding something like a lifting lug. For the majority of applications downhill isn't recommended as it has low penetration. The one application where downhill is used extensively is in pipelining but that's a specialty in itself with special wires designed for it. The welds in your 2nd and 3rd pic (on the right) look cold and not much penetration. How big and heavy are these tanks? Your company may need to re-evaluate it's welding procedures. Flat or horizontal would be a much better choice mechanically. It's not your fault if someone higher up doesn't know but it's generally common knowledge. If they know and are telling you to do it downhill, they're aren't teaching very well.
Reply:Lifting lugs welded downhill with Innershield on a 12,000lb tank is just scary. None of that should be in the same sentence. I have a fair amount of experience working in tanks shops. My first job as an apprentice was building hooped safety ladders for 400 bbl tanks(20' long). The longest ladder I built was 58' long. I did that and skids for 7 1/2 month's, then I moved onto building the tanks. We dragged the cables and climbed up on top all the time so we could weld in the flat or horizontal position. The lifting lugs you could roll to the side and weld horizontal and then roll to other side to weld horizontal as well. A few places I've worked would stick you on a grinder for a week if they caught you running downhill. Downhill would never be acceptable on a lifting lug.
Reply:Why can't the welders weld those uphill????????? Never heard of a downhill procedure for a padeye............and then Flux core in a shop??????Last edited by shaynoak; 02-24-2015 at 03:10 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cody Gabriel JohnsonI've never heard of or seen any of the leadmen or journeymen run a uphill weld since I've worked there
Reply:Geez, even math teachers can weld vertical up...... Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Haha yeah Im not sure. I do recall a couple times a leadmen asking why I was running uphill on a skid I was working on couple months back as well. I'm not entirely sure. Just doin as I was trained. But yeah all we use is flux core except there's a few guys who use dual shield for some pipes. And then all the tanks get sub arced. I'll ask one of the leadmen how come nobody runs the lifting loops uphill as well.
Reply:Some T-8 class self shielded flux cored wires can be run downhill successfully.  Lincoln's innershield NR-207, Hobart's Fabshield 71T-8, are examples.  There are others.  I know you can run Hobart FabShield 21B downhill and produce sound welds.  I'd guess that Lincoln NR-211MP could also be run vertical down, but I've not used that particular wire.So depending on what flux cored wire the OP is using, downhill may be perfectly fine.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doSome T-8 class self shielded flux cored wires can be run downhill successfully.  Lincoln's innershield NR-207, Hobart's Fabshield 71T-8, are examples.  There are others.  I know you can run Hobart FabShield 21B downhill and produce sound welds.  I'd guess that Lincoln NR-211MP could also be run vertical down, but I've not used that particular wire.So depending on what flux cored wire the OP is using, downhill may be perfectly fine.
Reply:Lincoln 5/64" (2.0m) ED012508 inner shield nr 211-mp
Reply:Yeah, running downhill will get you run off quick...
Reply:Innershield® NR-211-MP is a versatile wire suitable for all-position welding of light gauge or thin plate. It is recommended for maximum plate thicknesses in the range of 7.9 mm (5/16 in) to 12.7 mm (1/2 in). For an easy to use general fabrication wire - choose Innershield® NR-211-MP. Seems fine to run downhill to me? I'll take better pictures tomorrow of the vert down welds starting a new tank tomorrow I'll post some from a different angle the welds to me anyways aren't cold, I did mess around with the volts and wire speed a bit today though.I dunno about the "technical" aspects of 211. Buddy and I were welding temp clips side by side with 211. He was welding down always, me up. I gave him crap every single day because his clips never held when we put the coals to a vibro hammer next to the welded clips.... now, the material was 3/8"+, but I would never put my life on the line with and root welded downhill with Flux core.... just my opinion....
Reply:Look at the welds in the 2nd and 3rd picture. In the 2nd picture it looks like the final pass is just laying on top, especially when you look at the last inch or so when everything would be the hottest. The 3rd on the right, the bead looks like it's just piled up. Looks smooth but can't have much penetration. The 1st picture has a big crater that's likely got slag entrapment. Using an E71T-11 wire for a lifting lug on a 12,000 lb. tank isn't the best choice in the first place but also welding them downhill is flirting with disaster in my opinion. This can't be some small tank shop if they're running sub-arc. I don't understand why you can't go up on top to weld the lifting lugs and any nozzles in the flat/horizontal position??? Almost sounds like it's all about getting it out the door ASAP and to heck with any quality control.
Reply:There is a lot of weld there, more than 75% looks to be good quality.Three inches  of 3/8" fillet weld is enough to lift 12000lbs. safely.I wouldn't be afraid to pick and set that tank. I do weld and rig for a living.Last edited by ironrail; 02-25-2015 at 06:11 AM.
Reply:I most likely have a different outlook towards padeyes. In 1994 a welded padeye broke while making a pick. The rigging went right through the safety latch on the hook. Hit me in the back, drove me face first into the deck of the barge. Shattered every bone in my face, blew several disks in my neck! Then the rigging pulled me over the side of the barge into 35-feet of water. My partner had to jump in an untangle me before I drowned. Got a helicopter ride to the local trauma center, spent 2-weeks there. Have 7-plates holding my forehead together! Missed 6-months work. 8-years later I had to retire early because of my health. Sure go right ahead and weld all padeyes vertical down hill, do you feel lucky? Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI most likely have a different outlook towards padeyes. In 1994 a welded padeye broke while making a pick. The rigging went right through the safety latch on the hook. Hit me in the back, drove me face first into the deck of the barge. Shattered every bone in my face, blew several disks in my neck! Then the rigging pulled me over the side of the barge into 35-feet of water. My partner had to jump in an untangle me before I drowned. Got a helicopter ride to the local trauma center, spent 2-weeks there. Have 7-plates holding my forehead together! Missed 6-months work. 8-years later I had to retire early because of my health. Sure go right ahead and weld all padeyes vertical down hill, do you feel lucky?
Reply:Why is downhill less desirable ?millermatic 130XPharbour freight 180 amp mig with added caps.hobart stickmate ac/dcpowerarc 200
Reply:Originally Posted by weldinghomerWhy is downhill less desirable ?
Reply:Very nice, yes i agree with steadiness comes with time and practice! however i myself would be pleased with a bead such as this!
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI don't feel that lucky - I'll weld heavy stuff vertical up I prefer to learn from the experiences of others.I know people with similar stories of improper welds breaking and being injured, or more commonly, breaking and luckily just missing being injured - makes me very aware of the implications of what I do when I'm welding something.
Reply:I'm not disagreeing with any of you fellas I actually really appreciate all the feedback. For the most point I think a lot of it has to do with time. As for the steel thickness of the tanks there only 1/8" steel so the penetration has got to be there. But like I said I'm just doing how I was told and trained to do. Honestly if it was my choice I would weld the loops from on top of the tank but there is a time frame that these tanks have to be completed.
Reply:Oh and there is pads that the lifting loops are welded to, so it goes the tank, then pad which is also 1/8 then the loop which is 3/8 if that helps any.
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPI most likely have a different outlook towards padeyes. In 1994 a welded padeye broke while making a pick. The rigging went right through the safety latch on the hook. Hit me in the back, drove me face first into the deck of the barge. Shattered every bone in my face, blew several disks in my neck! Then the rigging pulled me over the side of the barge into 35-feet of water. My partner had to jump in an untangle me before I drowned. Got a helicopter ride to the local trauma center, spent 2-weeks there. Have 7-plates holding my forehead together! Missed 6-months work. 8-years later I had to retire early because of my health. Sure go right ahead and weld all padeyes vertical down hill, do you feel lucky?
Reply:I was thinking the head injury explains why he still thinks he's only been welding for 2 to 3 weeks... .No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by JASIt made him grumpy too. Oh wait, he was grumpy prior to 1994
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI was thinking the head injury explains why he still thinks he's only been welding for 2 to 3 weeks...
Reply:Originally Posted by Cody Gabriel JohnsonInnershield® NR-211-MP is a versatile wire suitable for all-position welding of light gauge or thin plate. It is recommended for maximum plate thicknesses in the range of 7.9 mm (5/16 in) to 12.7 mm (1/2 in). For an easy to use general fabrication wire - choose Innershield® NR-211-MP. Seems fine to run downhill to me? I'll take better pictures tomorrow of the vert down welds starting a new tank tomorrow I'll post some from a different angle the welds to me anyways aren't cold, I did mess around with the volts and wire speed a bit today though.
Reply:So, what voltage and wire speed is advised for .045 flux core uphill on 1/8" material?Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerbillSo, what voltage and wire speed is advised for .045 flux core uphill on 1/8" material?
Reply:I'll try it, but 120 uphill on 1/8th seems like it might be too hot.Hobart Beta-Mig 2511972 Miller AEAD-200LEMiller 250 TwinNorthern Ind. Hybrid 200Longevity Stick 140Longevity Migweld 200SThermal Arc Pak 3XR
Reply:Downhill is faster but if you think about it, how can doing a weld twice as fast have the same penetration and strength? Downhill just doesn't have the same penetration. You usually have to go fast just to stay ahead of the slag running down.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cody Gabriel JohnsonI'm not disagreeing with any of you fellas I actually really appreciate all the feedback. For the most point I think a lot of it has to do with time. As for the steel thickness of the tanks there only 1/8" steel so the penetration has got to be there. But like I said I'm just doing how I was told and trained to do. Honestly if it was my choice I would weld the loops from on top of the tank but there is a time frame that these tanks have to be completed.
Reply:Try running the stuff uphill, and watch the puddle.  You'll see some undercut.  This tells you that you're getting penetration/fusion.  And uphill is not very much slower than downhill, especially when wire welding.  NR-211 is brittle stuff in the first place, you really don't want to compound this by possibly burying slag, and getting poor fusion.3/8 to 1/8, if I read correctly, should be accomplished by setting your heat for the thicker material, then letting it wash into the lighter material.  In a tight "weave", you just have to spend more time on the thicker side, and flick the gun over to the thin stuff to tie in."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammTry running the stuff uphill, and watch the puddle.  You'll see some undercut.  This tells you that you're getting penetration/fusion.  And uphill is not very much slower than downhill, especially when wire welding.  NR-211 is brittle stuff in the first place, you really don't want to compound this by possibly burying slag, and getting poor fusion.3/8 to 1/8, if I read correctly, should be accomplished by setting your heat for the thicker material, then letting it wash into the lighter material.  In a tight "weave", you just have to spend more time on the thicker side, and flick the gun over to the thin stuff to tie in.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveLifting lugs welded downhill with Innershield on a 12,000lb tank is just scary. None of that should be in the same sentence.
Reply:Cody ,,your welds looks pretty good but have agree with welder dave, mn. Dave ,  cep and few other looks hair cold one famous mistake rookie welder make , so burn hot!!! Also wrap corner of these pad eyes i see few weld were stop just short of this, this is were they crack first,,i use to counter bevel these pad eyes with grinder before tacking if there no way to get in flat position i would stick weld these pad eyes with 7018 since there not lot weld time involve on these pad eyes,charlie