Linkweld DC 225 idler wires

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The unit is a lincweld DC- 225/3-AS code# 6630 with a 16 hp Onan. I fudged throgh the wiring diagram and got the unit running and welding. My problem is , the diagram does not show the two wires coming off the idle control. I have two white wires . One was cut short but you can tell it went throgh the panel and the other just mkes it throgh the panel with a connecter on it. Does any body know where I would hook these up. I also trashed the solenoid while pokin' and hopin' the wires. The markings on it says it's a 12v unit, but the system is a 24v start up. I found one on line that is a 24v continuous. Not sure if I should order it . What do you guys think? Thanks, Dan
Reply:Couple of questions.  Does this solenoid pull the throttle linkage directly by rod, spring or chain? Or does this solenoid live in a box with a vacuum diaphragm timer. I think you will find out is, two batteries are used for start only. 12 vdc is used for every thing else. Does this welder use a starter motor on the engine or put 24vdc to a starter winding in the generator?A solenoid pulling directly on the throttle linkage is an aftermarket or home made system.The parts book for your code shows the solenoid reset vacuum idle timer system.Up to 3 slightly different ones were used.Scan and post your diagram and we can help you more. Upload as a PDF file.
Reply:Thak you for responding ccawgc. I'll try and add some pics so you can see how far I've gotten. Attached Images Attached ImagesM10148.pdf (69.6 KB, 115 views)S12953.pdf (63.3 KB, 96 views)
Reply:here are a few more.You can see from the pics it is easyer for me and better for the machine, to empty a clip into any electrical problems I come across. But I did get it to run and weld. So I might as well get it wired right. Thanks, DD Attached ImagesLast edited by doubled; 05-26-2011 at 11:54 AM.
Reply:First your batteries are wired in parallel and not in series. You are only putting 12vdc to the start winding. The idle timer in on the right side of the first picture.How to wire it. is written on the left side edge of drawing M10148.The white wire is shown at the top of the page. Comes from the resister grid to what is called the removable panel. The other wire (+) looks like it is connected to battery Plus which is also connected to the stabilizer and the red wire going up to the rheostat. It appears that the voltage drop across the stabilizer during welding supplies the voltage to the coil. Could be 12 volts or less. Try to identify each part and the wires between from the diagrams. Start with what you can then move on to the rest.If you use a hertz meter to set the engine rpm. This is a 50 hertz system. not a 60 hertz system
Reply:Rewired the batts so they are in a series. Now all I'm getting is a hum at the end of the arm..I checked the points and condensor and put in new plugs. Even tryed putting the batts back the way they were when it use to start, but just a humming from the rear of the arm.. I have a reading of 24v all the way through , up to the coil and sarter switch.Would the brushes lock up from being wired wrong and running before. If so , Is this a big job to replace them? Like seperating the motor and arm. or just taking the end cap off the arm. ? Thanks, DD
Reply:So I pulled off the end cap and found the brush wires were all frayed. Would this keep it from starting, seeing the engine starts off the generator? Do you think the parts are still avail. from Lincoln or anyplace else? I hope the pics help. Attached Images
Reply:Here is the condition of 4 out of 8 brushes. 2 on each side.The part # on it is  T7554. Is it safe to assume this is why it won't start? Attached Images
Reply:I do believe 12 vdc is used for all the controls and the 24 vdc is only used for starting.The battery charger is 24vdc. If you look at the wiring diagram It shows a wire going to each end and the middle of the batterys. The middle wire is a smaller wire and runs the 12vdc controls. T7554 brush is available from Lincoln. Price is around $15.00 each' depending on store mark up and shipping.Yes, The broken strands will limit the current flow.The slip rings produce AC voltage for your plugs. The commutator Produces the DC weld voltage. The start winding is in series with the commutator. The start winding is the magnet part of the motor. The commutator looks burnt. It will need to be cleaned and the brushes replaced,You will need to get s brush seating stone. It can be used to clean the com, and ware in the brushes so they make good contact.They will arc real bad if not cleaned and seated correctly.  When you look at the diagram the slip rings and the commutator are the two circles inside circle is the slip rings and the out side is the commutator.Last edited by ccawgc; 05-30-2011 at 12:49 AM.
Reply:http://cgi.ebay.com/4-New-Lincoln-Mo...-/230597017264Good luck with your project!!Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:I'd jump on those right now at that price before they get away.Nice find MM31.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:ccawgc is 100% on the 24v start and 12v control.  Part of the problem too Dan could be those lawn mower batteries not having enough CCA to get the job done properly.  But I also agree with ccawgc that the bad brushe leads aren't helping.  In fact, if those batteries had more kick the remaining leads probably would have fried off.If it were me, I'd jump on those brushes MadMax31 posted the link to and be looking at rewiring the unit per the schematics to get rid of all those stray wires and butt splice connectors.  Just take one circuit at time and all will go smoothly.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks,MM31, that helps alot, I just snaged them .I had seen them for $12 Ea. on line , this is like buy 2 get 2, NICE.Hey Duane55 thanks for jumping in,I've read a lot of posts with your's and ccawgc's tags on them.I've always gotten something poss. out of them. As you can see , I need all the help I can get. The batts were on the bench the day I got the wire diagram and wanted to see if I could get it the welder to do something , And it did , all be it, real slow. The wires will be all cleaned up before it is all said and done.Please keep checkn' in,this might take a while, Thanks Guys, DD
Reply:The brushes came in today. Commutator and slip rings cleaned up nice. I found this site while looking for diferant ways to clean and seat the brushes. I thought it might come in usefull for someone else.I have to admit , I only scored an 80 on the test . I hardly send anything out to get done. http://www.uiitraining.com/b51a/300/3201and36021.htm
Reply:here's the commutator and slip rings . Attached Images
Reply:That's cleaning up pretty well...looking much better than when you started. I'm watching your progress since I have the same machine and you never know when this information might be useful... Thanks for the super pics too.Mine has two garden tractor batteries that were dead when I got it and I'm keeping them on battery maintainers for a while.... they seem to be responding to the trickle charge and both are now at least showing 12V. It remains to be seen if they have the fire to start the engine without extra boost from another source.Good Luck...Looks like you have things under control.
Reply:Thanks Mudbug1, cleaning it up wasn't as tough as I thought it would be . The hard part for me will be the wiring. I have the schimatics , but no real knowlage of electrical application. I did find one pic on line of the machine with the skins off. It was a partial view, but it showed some of the wires. I'm one of those knuckleheads that dose better with pics. I did have it fudged enough to start it, but because I don't know what I'm doing, I probaley fryed the brushes that way. So, I pulled all the wires and I'm back to square one. It was suggested that the mower batts I used may also be a factor and I've learned to trust the suggestions given on here. I think I'll head over to the bone yard and pick up two with better cranking amps. If you have any pics of your wiring , please feel free to post them or PM , Thanks                                Well like they say in the nut house ----  I'M OFF
Reply:Mines all closed up,but what specific portions of the wiring do you need pics of... I might be able to get them for you. I just don't have a digital camera anymore (ask my niece what she did with the support disc and the wires)I'm a visual sort myself.... show me a pic and maybe I'll get it...show me a schematic and I'll laugh at you.At any rate...tell me what you need pics of and I'll try.....I'd hate to be wondering myself so I understand. I'm missing the guage/dial located on the back of the generator housing under the engine and need/want to replace it.
Reply:I'll attempt to use the first pic in your #4 post above to ID wires for you...It seems I have another switch on the right side when facing the machine. I think it is for charging? L-M-H I think. Is yours missing? Mine looks like a 3 position toggle switch in case your is missing.I'll do what I can with it though as far as the other connections.
Reply:Think of the diagrams like a road map. The different parts are landmarks, the wire numbers are road names or numbers. Find a landmark IE the battery and follow the wires to the next landmark, I now this is over simplified  but it does work.
Reply:Well my friend , if you have ever worked with " Spud Monkeys " AKA( Iron Workers), you know you can never over simplify any thing. But, Low and behold , I done dang did it. It starts with a push of the button , thank you ALL so very much. In my own defence , those white wires that gave me all that trouble. I didn't see they were fryed and arching out, untill I picked the machine up and placed it on a higher work platform. It still works with the old lever action , so I can at least weld with it anyway. I have to take off the manifold and weld that up (sometimes I get angry), So I'll take a look at the auto idle unit then. But tonight I'm going to grab me an icecream cone and watch the Bruins beat the Kanuckle Heads. Attached ImagesWell like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Originally Posted by mudbugoneIt seems I have another switch on the right side when facing the machine. I think it is for charging? L-M-H I think. Is yours missing? Mine looks like a 3 position toggle switch in case your is missing.
Reply:Would you like jelly, jam or buttah' with that solinoid? I forgot to add this to my last post. While the machine was running , one of the batts vibrated loose and arched out on the side of the welder. It lasted for a bout 3-4 seconds, but long enough to melt some insulation on the thinner wires. I almost understood what you said Duane. I checked the white wires all the way back to the brushes and they look great. The wires to the idler solinoid were much thinner , so they abviously took the brunt of it. (along with the solinoid itself) . When I wired the the idler wires up, I had one wired to poss. (red ) coming from the winde and the other to the white off the grid. I did a quick search for the solinoid (S8951-B) and ilder (L3006-E) but it isn't looking good ,so far. Should I cap the vacume line or put a small filter on it untill I find a replacment idler?May be this is why the govenor rod was leaking? Not enough pressure in the case to keep it raised and in play?What do you guys think?While i wait to find the idler or silonoid , I'll start cleaning up those wires , fix the manifold and maybe even splash a little paint here and there. Attached ImagesWell like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Excellent news on the running!! Hope you get that solenoid squared away...Let us know how it welds eh?Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Yup, that's pretty much what they look like fried doubled.  I'm in the process of rebuilding one for an F-162/163.  Cardboard insulator tube is replaced with a machinable plastic (I forget the exact material).  Just need to wind the 225+ feet of .023" magnet wire.Last edited by duaneb55; 06-07-2011 at 10:27 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!Very nice my friend. Do the two yellow wires get wraped into the winde or are they actualy the winde ends? I might be able to handel this part of the project a little easyer. I like your idea with the drill. I have an electronics surplus store not too far from me . I might be able to find the wire and plastic insulator there. They have some realy odd stuff in there, maybe that's why I'm always drawn to it. Thanks for sharing and If you don't have this as a thread , it shore would make a good one.Well like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:DD.. I took time this afternoon to attempt to draw the wiring panel using your photo of your panel.... It doesn't resemble my panel very much. My volt meter has 2 connectors & yours has 5 ? I guess mine is a newer model.The 3 way charging switch I mentioned  has  high-trickle-low settings. None of my switches/connections seem to resemble yours at all other than the rheostat. I've been trying to re-charge the two garden tractor batteries mine came with that were dead as a stone from setting.... wonder of wonders they both seem to be holding a charge and it started right up on it's own batteries without a jump start.I've had them both on battery maintainers for weeks and they were both still showing 12v after I started the welder twice. We'll see if they hold their charge without the maintainers connected for a day or two. I intend to keep them on the maintainers after that though.... I had 2 maintainers,but misplaced one and had to keep swaping it from one to the other every couple of days. Got tired of that and found them on sale at Harbor Freight for $5...should have bought several.I'm Sorry you guys are having trouble,but I'm thankful for the instruction in case it every happens to mine.
Reply:No problem at all mudbug1, You are right about the charging system being different. Mine is " high " for when It will be used off and on repeatedly and "low" for if I'm runing it steady all day or so. I did however , burn out one batt (during my learning curve ) but the other is holding fine. I havn't made it to the bone yard to pick up another one yet I'm ging to focus on the solinoid rebuild( another first) so keep checkin' in my friend.Well like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Got it runing. Generating power and welding, with new batts and replaced all the fryed wires. Only two problems left.   1, I need a kill switch, I have to choke it to shut it down, not sure where to put it or what wires to use.   2, before I wire up the new idler. does it matter where I connect to the + side? I know one wire is connected too the white wire coming off the grid.Well like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Wired up the idler and she started smoking as soon as I fired up the machine. Disconnected it real quick. Had it wired to the white wire from the grid and + side of starter relay that is connected to batt # 2 and ampmeter. I checked it out on just one batt and it seems fine. Don't know what I did wrong. Any input on the this?Well like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Did you rewind the original or get a replacement?  Just curious.1) Battery #2 (+) and the ammeter don't go on the same start solenoid post but rather opposite sides.  The ammeter goes on the same post as the cable that runs to the (+) side of the stabilizer.2) I would say hooked the way you described was feeding 24V to the idler coil which is designed to operate between .38 and 4.25V on the Lincwelder 225.3) The R-57 idler control is a "shunt" type circuit in that it runs parallel with the (+) weld output rather than a (+) to (-) type.  When welding, a very small portion of the output current passes thru the idler coil creating a magnetic field that retracts the valve plunger thus releasing the manifold vacuum from the idler diaphram chamber allowing the governor to increase engine speed.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks Duane, I picked one up a new ideler and I'm saving the rewind for later. I got hold of some teflon tubing and have to shave down the ends to fit the spacer washers.I haven't picked up the wire yet. I realy thought I had this wired correctly , this time . I'll have to go through it again. I figured out how the idler worked when I bench tested it, after I almost fryed it AGAIN. I checked it off one batt and saw the  plunger get pulled in and when I disconnected the wires , It sprang up and hit me dead square on the snot locker. So the spring has still got some spunk in it. I'll be back!!!!!!Well like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:got the wires moved around and the idler solinoid installed. Getting no response from the idler. Still have to do it manually.I checked the voltage @ the outlet and am getting a flucuation on low idle 39-51 volts ( goes along with the RPMs of the motor) @ high idle I get a steady 150 volts. Dialed in @ 100 and the rehostat set @ 1, I get the weld on the left , set @ 100 and rehostat @ 10 , I get the one on the right. Attached ImagesWell like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF