Do I "need" an arc gouger?

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Got two arc gouging torches with an old Miller Dialarc HF. I don't really see myself using them but I'm new to the whole welding thing.Are they good for anything other then making noise?Picked up the Dialarc to get back into tig welding which I left when I got into glassblowing. Picking up an aircooled torch Monday. Just need a regulator and I should be ready to go.
Reply:every tool has its purpose and place when needed...I'd keep it around but that's just me.if your going to trow them away I'd pay shipping
Reply:Unless you have a steady supply of air at about 10 CFM it won't be very useful to you.                                               MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I have a 40 gallon 4 horse air cpmpressor. I burned it up doing some sandblasting then rebuilt it. It's got to be 25 years old. Haven't really had a need for anything bigger so far.I also have an oxy act rig with a cutting torch. Not heavy duty though.Was thinking of selling them.
Reply:probably not a very useful tool in the glassblowing line but almost indispensable if you're repairing heavy equipment,castings and fabrication mistakes. it can also be used as a down and dirty plasma cutter.i.u.o.e. # 15queens, ny and sunny fla
Reply:I have one. I just can’t talk myself into using it on one of my personal welders. Over the years I’ve put the hurt on company welders carbon arcing with them. Worked in a Fab shop, they had a dedicated welder to carbon arc with. We used a lot of 1/2” carbons with that welder. When you struck an arc the leads would jump off the floor at least 2-feet. Here at home I use my plasma cutter to remove old welds. Not near as fast as a carbon arc, but it gets the job done. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I completely understand not owning a carbon arc gouger.I would never sell an oxy/fuel torch unless I just needed a different one.Same as CEP, I gouge with my plasma in the shop - or the torch.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:There are times when it is the right tool for the job.  Last year I had a job making a right hand resaw out of an old left hand resaw.  I think I had to cut every weld on that saw apart. It would have taken days to cut all those welds without a carbon torch.  In stead I had all the welds cut in 5 or 6 hrs. I had about 100 hrs into that saw by the time I had it back together and working correctly in the opposite hand.  Without the carbon torch it would have been twice that plus it would have been much more frustrating.  I had to build a tent out of fire blankets to capture the sparks from the carbon arc to keep them under control in my shop.
Reply:Are they good for anything other then making noise?
Reply:There also pretty handy for taking things back apart for rebuilding or modification.   I like to think of those gouging carbons as the "anti-welding rod".   A big enough machine and enough air and you can normally make welds disappear way faster than you can put them on.
Reply:Why get rid of it. There is a lot of control with a gauger.
Reply:Well I think I have 2, perhaps I just sell one?Also, would this harm my dialarc, using the gouger?I all most bought an alphatig but found a cheap dialarc hf and made "it" a project as well.
Reply:It won't harm your welder at all.
Reply:Originally Posted by dino1would this harm my dialarc, using the gouger?
Reply:I do a fair bit of side work welding/repairing heavy equipment. I do a lot of arc air gouging with a Lincoln Invertec v350pro multi process inverter. It works great. I run 5/16" max carbons at 350 amps. It keeps my duty cycle at 100% and don't harm the welder at all. The welder still welds great in all modes/processes. Forget the oxy fuel torch or grinder and give me the arc air. Last edited by snoeproe; 05-17-2016 at 02:51 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Jason, I’ve never air arced with an inverter welder. Mostly engine drive welders. I just can’t bring myself to air arc with my V350-Pro!Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:The v350 pro has plenty of power and stamina for arc air gouging. Keep your duty cycle in check and have no fear my friend. Last edited by snoeproe; 05-17-2016 at 03:20 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:This thread got me to thinking about air arcing. If I have to do it, I might give my 1937 Lincoln Idealarc 300 a try. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:It's hard to beat the speed and versatility of arc air gouging. In the hands of the right operator, it's an economical and very effective way to remove metal for maintenance purposes.The photos I posted above are an Aspen float trailer. It had an issue with an air valve that has since been repaired. The front axle wheels had wore through the deck.Last edited by snoeproe; 05-17-2016 at 03:23 PM.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPThis thread got me to thinking about air arcing. If I have to do it, I might give my 1937 Lincoln Idealarc 300 a try.
Reply:Originally Posted by dino1Got two arc gouging torches with an old Miller Dialarc HF. I don't really see myself using them but I'm new to the whole welding thing.Are they good for anything other then making noise?Picked up the Dialarc to get back into tig welding which I left when I got into glassblowing. Picking up an aircooled torch Monday. Just need a regulator and I should be ready to go.
Reply:I use a special tip for my o/a torch for cutting weld out. I can't think of the name of it but it works really well. The tip is curved to make it easy to blast hot metal. If it was me I would keep the o/a torch.
Reply:If your just a hobby welder, there isn't much need for a carbon arc gouger. Each tool has its specific use. A gouger is a tool used for heavy duty maintenance  and repair. You need a high capacity and high duty cycle air compressor to make the arc air gouger operate effectively. You don't need a 400+ amp welder to run an arc air gouger. You can get very small carbons that will run ok on 200 amps. The arc air gouger is much more precise and much faster than an oxy fuel torch. In the end, use what you got.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:I don't know if you need one, but just because you don't need it today doesn't mean that you won't need it tomorrow. I would keep them. I would not arc gouge off the Dialarc, HF or not, and I own a 250 HF. The transformer is not built for that kind of abuse. I would, and have gouged with the Idealarc 300/300 that I own, with small 5/16 carbons on an occasional basis. When it's show time the SAE 400 gets center stage and will move all the metal that you want. In regards to air supply you don't need a big compressor for a 1 man show. I use a wheelbarrow style 7hp compressor with the regulator turned down to about 40 psi. You don't need 175 psi to blow the molten puddle out of the way and you will have less potential for starting a fire or damaging other things with flying molten steel. If you think I'm kidding you, ask yourself where you run the oxygen regulator on your torch when cutting. Gouging, like welding, is an acquired skill that is very useful. I have several times cut nuts off bolts without damaging the threads. Good luck with the new toys.
Reply:I've use a gauger with the same trailblazer at max power 300 amps with 3/8 gauging rods for years. It was my boss welder and he didn't care about the tools, just get the job done he would say. That trailblazer ran smooth from zero hours to over 7000 hours when I left the company to go work at the mine.So anybody that says that it will hurt your welder are wrong.Since I'm at the mine I have a big blue air pack, the same one for the last 3 1/2 years, 5700 hours of beating up that welder gauging some days 12 straight hours of gauging old wear out plates from haul trucks boxes or wear bars from dippers and that welder still welds 3/32"  for platforms railings on sholvels or 1/4" and 1/16 fluxcore at 32 volts as smooth as the first day I used it when they gave it to me new. And I  gauge with this welder almost every day.Keep one of your gauger, one day you'll be glad you have it still. It's free anyways.Originally Posted by kctgbI use a special tip for my o/a torch for cutting weld out. I can't think of the name of it but it works really well. The tip is curved to make it easy to blast hot metal. If it was me I would keep the o/a torch.
Reply:[QUOTE=farmersamm;7282181]It's called a scarfing tip, and it's been used for decades to remove welds, back gouge welds, and clean up castings.  When used properly, it's SURGICAL.   I have a question for you, Farmersamm. I am not trying to be a crybaby , just an honest desire to learn. I have also used washing tips, as I call them, but don't normally see them with the hole pattern you showed. Is that perhaps what is/was used for washing the heads off of rivets? Looks like it works well for scarfing too, btw. I think I have one around the shop somewhere. Might have to try it.
Reply:[QUOTE=villageblacksmith;7283331] Originally Posted by farmersammIt's called a scarfing tip, and it's been used for decades to remove welds, back gouge welds, and clean up castings.  When used properly, it's SURGICAL.   I have a question for you, Farmersamm. I am not trying to be a crybaby , just an honest desire to learn. I have also used washing tips, as I call them, but don't normally see them with the hole pattern you showed. Is that perhaps what is/was used for washing the heads off of rivets? Looks like it works well for scarfing too, btw. I think I have one around the shop somewhere. Might have to try it.
Reply:i/ve gouged like twice in my 9 year career. once to remove welds from i-beam baseplates that were oriented wrong. once on a large end dump trailer that i needed to chase a bunch of cracks out of.i hated it both times. i had a big blue 300 maxxed at 400 amps and shorted the reels at first arc strike. i sat there scratching my head as to why the machine SOUNDED under load but refused to light up. . . . .kind of funnyit has its place but not in general industrial fabrications or repairs.bosses stuff:trailblazer 325maxstar 200my stuff:sa 200fronius transpocket 180100 amp Lincoln w/f97 f350 DITKevin
Reply:A TIG machine is the last thing you want to use for gouging. There are gouging tips for oxy/fuel torches, rivet tips, bent tips and a host of others. In the right hands they do an excellent job. If the gouger in question is a K4000 style they need about 28 CFM of air. Most shops that do a fair amount of gouging will have a dedicated machine(s) like an SAE 400 for it. That said, I worked in a shop that did chromium carbide overlay on pipe and had to use gougers. They had a couple SAE 400's burnt out from gouging so anyone saying gouging isn't hard on a machine is just fooling themselves. I had a Lincoln Square Wave TIG 255 and it said right in the manual not to use it for gouging.
Reply:We gouge everday in a bridge shop 5/8. 1/2 & 3/8 carbons 350 amp inverters DC-600/DC-1000/ RS-800 Arcair full auto on web to flange full pen ,hand gouge every thing else. YOU MUST GRIND OUT CARBON ON ALL FULL PENS!
Reply:[QUOTE=villageblacksmith;7283331] Originally Posted by farmersammIt's called a scarfing tip, and it's been used for decades to remove welds, back gouge welds, and clean up castings.  When used properly, it's SURGICAL.   I have a question for you, Farmersamm. I am not trying to be a crybaby , just an honest desire to learn. I have also used washing tips, as I call them, but don't normally see them with the hole pattern you showed. Is that perhaps what is/was used for washing the heads off of rivets? Looks like it works well for scarfing too, btw. I think I have one around the shop somewhere. Might have to try it.
Reply:My Smith gouging tips say "propane gouging tip" right on the package.  SC23-3 is the part number on the package.  I've heard them called scarfing tips, also.  I had a whole bunch of oddball Smith tips at one time - sheet metal cutters, rivet cutters, etc.  Might still have them around.  Pretty cool stuff even if nobody really uses them anymore.  My old Smith catalogs from the 1940's show them if I remember right.
Reply:FarmerSam, I used to use a scarfing tip (sorta) like that cutting fasteners etc. With practice you could leave a washer intact under the head of a nut, I was never that good. Always thought the guy I was working for had made it himself. We have an air-arc setup on the shelf, if I ever feel the need to set it up it will have to be on something besides the machine I use now, best machine I have ever used, would hate to tear it up. My grandfather used to describe air-arc and he always said it is hard on equipment.Miller Multimatic 220ACMiller Thunderbolt 225Victor OA
Reply:I could definitely get by without my air arc setup, but I sure wouldn't want to!  I also have a scarfing tip, but that rarely gets used.  The carbon arc is faster and more precise.  A lot of the work I do is heavy equipment repair and for that type of work, an arc gouger is one of the most commonly used tools on my truck.Last edited by Casey; 05-28-2016 at 02:48 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Welder DaveMost shops that do a fair amount of gouging will have a dedicated machine(s) like an SAE 400 for it. That said, I worked in a shop that did chromium carbide overlay on pipe and had to use gougers. They had a couple SAE 400's burnt out from gouging so anyone saying gouging isn't hard on a machine is just fooling themselves.
Reply:I have used all 3 methods ...Arcair = CAG ... O/A with a gouging tip ... Plasma GougingCag is the quickest ...Metal turns to liquid at a touch and lots of it even though i am limited to 1/4 carbons at 300 ampsPlasma is quick also the plasma stream is small  but metal turns to liquid at a touch and it is very surgical but at 45 amps it is not the mass remover that cag isThe torch is OK you have to wait until it"s hot then hit the jet ...It is kind of cumbersome and you have to have your gouge tip turned the right way to use it ...and it has to be turned to the correct direction after i have started to do a gouge of a crack that turns this way and that and the tip is hot... such is the joy of doing repair workEach has it's advantages  etc Backed my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I found gouging with my plasma, it’s hard to control the depth. With carbon arcing no problem at all controlling the depth of cut.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400