Paint Job for Buggyman1

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There's other ways, as I'll well soon find out, but this is the way I do it.  It's more practical for the person who doesn't have access to big bucks, or a truly clean paint area.First I clean off any surface rust as best as I can.  Sandblasting is better, but sometimes it isn't justified.The tools.Throwaway grinders are best for this.  Wire brushing is hard on a grinder.  I use a 2 1/2" cup brush, it's easier on the grinder, and does well.Prep doesn't have to be pristine at this point, just loose rust and any leftover weld spatter.  (This is the tie plate I screwed up, and managed to salvage)I'm posting as I progress, so there's more later on today.Next step is solvent cleaning to remove the fine particles, and any grease."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:This is about all you need (plus cheap paper towels), to clean the metal.  Wear protective gear for fumes and chemical splashes.  You MUST use a blue bucketPaint the metal with a natural bristle brush, nylon bristles will melt.  Then wipe off the thinner while it's still wet.  Be liberal with the thinner so that it will still be wet when you come back to wipe it.  Do a small enough area to make sure it doesn't dry before you come back.You'll get this..........  In this case, I'm only dealing with rusty steel, it's not oily.  One go around is adequate to clean up all the fine particles (you can repeat this till the cows come home, but you'll still come up with some stuff on the rag, I've found that one go around is adequate).  If you're dealing with oily metal, it's best to do this twice until the rag is reasonably clean.  Some oil will not interfere with the primer, most painters at least act like they're prima donna's, but reasonably clean is adequate when using equipment/industrial paint.Discard your thinner when it loads up to this degree.  No point in painting on old crud every time you lay a coat of thinner on.I'll thin, and put the primer on today, but there may be no more posts till tomorrow.  K'kins will have to help with the video, and she isn't home yet, and she'll not be happy if I get back on the puter after she's home."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'm looking forward to this thread. Just a couple welders, big hammers, grinders, and torches.Work will free you.Men in dirty jeans built this country, while men in clean suits have destroyed it. Trump/Carson 2016-2024
Reply:But,but, but, I don't have a blue bucket. Is it acceptable to paint a white bucket blue? I have a white bucket.
Reply:You could use a rust converter. That way you will have a good rust free surface for the new paint.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:you need to take a break form this thread to build a Camera tripod so you don't need someone else to take your video for you.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by ThorsHammeryou need to take a break form this thread to build a Camera tripod so you don't need someone else to take your video for you.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Yeah, only it would weigh 500 pounds and have to be painted safety yellow too
Reply:Hehehe. For sure Roy Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:I can't afford new metal so I don't have to deal w/ oil. Samm, for several yrs I've been cleaning rusty metal w/ the cup brush and hand wire brush. Then spraying Flood Penetrol on unthinned as a primer. So far it's held up good on lots of outdoor items like yard art, gate frames and tlrs. Hasn't peeled and the paint bonds well to it and hasn't peeled yet either.                                                   MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Thanks farmersamm, I really appreciate this. I may get started on it this weekend.
Reply:Once you're satisfied that it's fairly clean, it's time to primeMake sure to use an air gun to remove any pieces of paper towel that might have snagged on the metal.If you're really concerned about dust, it's a good idea to run over the surface with a tack rag at this point.  I didn't for this because this particular project is not a work of art  Use the tack rag LIGHTLY, or you'll get the sticky stuff on the surface.  Just skim it.  And fold it to obtain a clean spot when one side gets loaded up with crud.I'm using an industrial enamel system.  Alkyd enamel (important.....don't use acrylic enamel, it's highly toxic).  I pay 29.99 a gallon for this stuff, and I've been using it for well over a decade with good results.  Matter of fact, the front end loader is painted with it, and still looks very good.  Don't know if this brand is available in all areas, but it's a real cost effective, high quality paint.This can of primer has been open for about a year.  Sealed properly between use, but still some oxidization goes on inside a closed can.  The goop at the bottom of the can can be brought back for use.  It's just a matter of spending time with a stir stick, and making sure it's fully blended.  I think I spent about 10 minutes constantly stirring this mess.  NEW PAINT SHOULD BE STIRRED EVEN IF IT'S BEEN SHAKEN BY YOUR SUPPLIER, THE SHAKERS DON'T ALWAYS DO A GOOD JOBNext, it's time to thin the primer."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:SORRY FOR THE VIDEO QUALITY.It's my fault.  I didn't tell K'kins that you have to look through the viewfinder to see what you're filming with this camera, if the LCD display is turned off.  She wound up just pointing the camera as best as she could without really being able to see anything.  I use a crap camera when doing welding stuff, and it's not the one she's used to using.First off..........I thin my paint/primer in the spray gun.  It's easy, and reliable if you get used to thinning stuff the same every time.  Some people prefer to thin everything in a large container, then transfer it to the gun.  I find this to be time consuming, and then I'm stuck with one more container to clean after I'm done.  As far as color match between paint coats............I find there's very little difference using this method.  Most times you will only use one gun full of paint per coat, and seldom have to refill the gun during a coat.  So, any minor differences between thinning ratios only apply to one coat, and it's not even noticeable once all coats are applied, because each coat burns into the previous coat.Anyways  Hope this helps when thinning your paint/primer.  NOTE:  Primer is sprayed a bit thicker than paint because you want a full wet single coat.  NOTE:  If you intend to use wet/dry sandpaper to level out your primer before painting, then spray at least two coats in order to have some buildup that you can level out with the sandpaper.  For equipment, I seldom use more than one coat of primer, and I don't sand it before painting unless there's some obvious dingleballs.I'd imagine the paint cup was about a bit less than 3/4 full.  The final volume was near full, with about an inch of headspace over the primer.  This would equate to about a 3:1 primer/thinner ratio.  The main thing is to thin it to the consistency of MILK.  Not that 2% crapola...........regular Vitamin D milk  If you're slightly off, err on the side of thicker.  You'll be able to adjust your volume, and spray pattern, to accommodate all types of mix.  Bear in mind though......thin paint sprays better, and coats more evenly.I use a bag strainer.  They come in sizes to fit various sizes of paint buckets, and I just cut them up into squares small enough to fit the paint gun.  THESE ARE A MUST, OTHERWISE YOU'LL PLUG UP YOUR GUN.  Use even when you've just opened a fresh can of paint.Next comes the spraying."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I like a good FULL coat of primer.  Primer is the coating that really seals the metal.  You'll often notice that when you scrape a piece of metal, the paint will come off, but the primer is still intact beneath the scratch.Primer levels your surface.  It fills in the minor imperfections on the surface of the metal.By now, I've turned the LCD display on, and K'kins can see what she's filming  BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS RUNNING SHORT ON MEMORY  I wanted you to see the full painting sequence, and keeping a wet edge.  Start on one end, paint all you can reach, then immediately go to the other side of what you just painted, and continue.  The idea is to lay the paint down in a continual wet pattern.  You don't want to skip around.  It has to be a continuous process.It's all ok though, I guess.  The primary thing I wanted to show was the speed at which the primer is applied when shooting a WET coat.  It's fast  You're dumping a lot of material out of that gun,, and you have to move fast to keep from getting runs.I couldn't show the actual wet edge (wetness) of the coat because K'kins didn't know how to use the zoom, and for her to get closer would mean she'd get a snoot full of paint spray.  You want to see wet paint immediately behind the spray pattern.  Not dripping wet, but shiny wet.To get this..................Test a pattern on something you really don't care about.  Set the width of the pattern first, then use the volume knob to set the wetness of the pattern.  You'll immediately see how much paint it takes to make it wet without running.  You need to run fast/slow enough to maintain this same degree of wetness thru the entire job.Priming is very fast because it just has to cover evenly.  AND, there's little chance for overspray (something I'll get into when the color coat gets done).  It's also a good learning tool for those who haven't really painted much, it gives you the feel of the gun, and how it lays paint.I'm running at about 35-40psi air pressure at the regulator.  This works well for me because I'm outside.  You could use less pressure if working inside.  One thing you have to watch...........use just enough air pressure to fully atomize the paint, any more just wastes paint by blowing it all over the place.Next I'll get into talking about spray patterns"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'm mostly painting channel in the video, so here's the sequence.When facing the inside "C", first paint the inside of the upper flange angling the gun so it covers the flange, and the corner of the flange (corners are the most ignored part of painting).  After painting the flange, then make a swipe across the web, then do the lower flange.  You've made 3 passes at this point.  You can do it in 2 passes when you get better, but start with 3.The outside of the "C" is done in the same manner.  Hit the top flange first, angling the gun so no paint will get on the inside of the "C" you previously painted.  The hit the web, and follow up with the bottom flange.On anything, always start, and finish with the outside corners of the steel.  Corners are the most important because they tend not to collect a lot of paint from the gun, so you have to pay attention to them.  BUT MOVE FAST ON CORNERS, it's easy to blast too much on the surrounding areas if you don't."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Now the crap part.  CleanupImmediately dump all the paint back into your gallon can, don't worry about the fact that it's thinned paint, it doesn't matter.  You'll just use less thinner next time you use that particular gallon.Put a small amount of thinner back in the cup, close up the gun, and shake it, then dump againGet as much stuff out of the paint cup as you can with a rag/paper towel.The refill the cup, and run clean thinner thru the gun.  You should use up about maybe 1 1/2" of thinner in the cup.Dump the thinner, and wipe down the inside of the gun again.REPEAT.Your seal is the most important part of the paint cup assembly.  If you allow paint to set up on this seal, the gun will never seal good again, and you'll drip paint all over the place when you invert or tilt the gun.  This can ruin a finishThis gun is a coupla years old, and has seen a lot of paint, but the seal should look pretty near brand new when you clean it.The very heart of the gun is the suction valve.  IT HAS TO BE RELIGIOUSLY CLEANED EVERY TIME.  This is the packing at the FRONT of the trigger.  It can be disassembled to allow for cleaning.Parts are as follows.  Clean all the metal parts with thinner.Soak the leather seals (sometimes these are rubber) in thinner an adequate amount of time to remove ALL paint.  You can do this in the paint cup.Your parts should be very clean after all thisWhen you reassemble the packing MAKE SURE TO OIL THE PACKING LEATHER/RUBBER WITH AIR TOOL OIL.  This keeps everything supple between uses, and prevents hardening of the seals.  It also makes it impossible for any stray paint possibly left in the gun to attach to the seals.  This is a must do."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:So, what should the primer coat look like after it's dried?Primer dries within a few minutes.  This is handy.  Look over the job, and make sure you haven't missed anything.  It can be touched up easily after the primer has flash dried with little, or no, danger of overspray.I am satisfied with the coverage, and the texture.  For this project I won't do any sanding between primer and paint coats.  It isn't necessary for anything but aesthetics.  Industrial type primers do not require sanding between coats, so are a good choice for this kind of work.The spray dingle balls will be knocked off with a tack rag.Although it may look rough (mainly because the metal itself is rough, and rusted/pitted), the color coats will fill this in, and you won't be able to see any of this texture you see immediately after priming.  Also.......primer does have a slightly rough texture in order to give a good "tooth" for the color coat.The primer is good for about a week or two before it has to be painted.  This is a good thing for me, because my paint booth is the GREAT OUTDOORS  I would not be the slightest concerned if it rained on this before I get around to putting on the final coats."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Very well done Samm! I'm no painter, but it seems you hit it right on the head with this one. I would add  that it's important to match your primer to your paint as not all paints can be sprayed over all primers. I suggest that you buy both paint andbprimer from the same source and manufacturer for this reason. I made the mistake once of mixing wrong types and had a huge mess to fix. Also not all primers go on that thick or need that thick of coverage. For what you used your dead on, but what I used was much thinner and you could see through the primer when I put the paint on. I used that paint because the paint you use dries slow so you need 2 days most times to paint a trailer. If your doing a trailer for sale time is money, so I spent more on paint for the ability to paint a trailer in a half day or so. It's all a personal preference as far as that goes, so your post is good for your type paint. Again, great job!Yeah, I know, but it'll be ok!Lincoln Square wave 255Miller Vintage mig30a spoolgunThermal Dynamics Pacmaster 100xl plasmaSmith mc torchEllis 1600 band saw
Reply:Samm thank you very much for posting this.  I have been doing a lot of brush painting for weldments and have been wanting to try out using a spray gun.  This is exactly the kind of guide I could hope for, especially how you cover clean up steps.
Reply:LET'S THIN SOME PAINTThe paint in question........  I got it, and I'm gonna use it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Before I go any further, let me state the facts.K'kins is in Ada visiting her #2 son.I'm on my own tonite, and enjoying the labors of the folks back East in St. Louis.  God Bless Budweiser."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:SO, LET'S SPRAYI took the advice, and started using a tripod  Sorta makes you feel like Cecil B. Demil (spelling?)The video is strictly to show the difference between travel speeds.  The speed for the first dust coat, and the speed for the second build coat.The first coat is just sprayed on to make the steel wet, and to give it some tooth for the next coat.  The next coat follows within about 10min of the first coat.  Enough time to let the dust coat flash.Flashing, when applied to paint, is the evaporation of sufficient thinner to make the surface tacky (you should be able to put your finger on it, find that it's sticky, and leave a fingerprint).  This allows the thinner to flash off so that it doesn't try to outgas when the second coat is applied.  This causes blisters in the paint, because the solvent is trapped in the first layer.Again, I wish I could show a closeup of the actual spray pattern, but I couldn't get the camera in a position away from the overspray.  It had to be further away than I'd of liked.Watching someone paint, is like watching paint drying  Tried to ease the pain with some good tunes.I don't do much of this video crap, but I've picked up some cool things along the way this time around.Let me recommend, with high 5's, "Handbrake" (a really good program for compressing video files for upload).  I'm slowly easing into the 21st Century.  Gimme a break.....................I'm 59 stinkin' years old.Anyways..........there were 4 coats applied.  The final coat was a pretty wet coat (more thinner) to burn in the previous coats.  The extra solvent blends anything beneath the final coat.I truly recommend pure paint thinner (mineral spirits) for outdoor painting.  It's a slow thinner, as opposed to Naptha, which is a fast flashing thinner, and doesn't allow for adequate wet edges while applying the paint.  Plus, it flashes way too fast.  Slow thinners are best all around for quality finishes, even when used indoors (with ventilation)."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:In the video, I was only wearing a 3M organic filter mask.  It sucks, believe me.  You start to feel the effect of the spray within minutes.  I held out because I didn't want to be dragging a bunch of hoses around while filming.After the video was recorded, I switched to a good system.  A positive pressure mask.  The large corrugated hose is held to a belt, and it relieves the tugging pressure from the main supply hose.  The main hose is akin to a shop air line, and attaches to the corrugated hose.  About the best out there in this type/price.  Very expensive, but worth it.  I used to be a pretty good drinker before I met K'kins, and I know for a fact.........I probably killed some brain cells back in the day.  No sense in killing any more.  (I did get this system on Ebay from someone who inherited it, and let it go for a song)The heart of the system is an impeller compressor.It supplies about 4-7psi positive pressure to the mask.  This prevents fumes from entering the mask.  It's a VERY GOOD SYSTEM.  If you feel it's justified,,,,,,buy it.  I paint enough to make it worthwhile just in health terms."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:So, how does it look.I had to wait a few hours for a dry down, and it's still not fully skinned at this point.  Safety Yellow  The choice of champions At the the time of day I took pics, the light wasn't optimal.  I did the best I could to show the surface texture/gloss.The rusty metal disappeared as I promised it would.  Paint has chemicals which cause it to level.By morning the gloss should be fully developed.  I'll take some pics then.I wanted to show how you can take rusty metal, that's been in contact with the ground for over 5yrs, and make it shine.  I hope it's helped some folks get into painting."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:For Buggyman1...........we need to figure out the sequence you want to paint the trailer with.Start with the underside, and anything not visible.Then work from the top down.  Deck, side rails, and frame.  Masking in between to make it manageable.  It's doable."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/Good job, they look great. A couple of questions, I can tell in the pics you used the Van Sickle brand primer, what type is it or do they make just one type?  Where would I find the Van Sickle brand, maybe Tractor Supply, i'm in ky., not sure what part of the country you're in. Like I said before, i'm not a painter so i'm gonna buy a spray gun, what brand, type should I be looking for?  Is your compressed air running through a water separator or straight from the compressor (I have one outlet plumbed-in with a separator that I never use, but could)?  I was hoping to get started this weekend, but realistically its probably gonna be next week sometime. I think i'll paint it outside to keep overspray off everything and i'll have plenty of room. Thanks so much for all your help, I think I can actually do this now.
Reply:Samm, great job and much good info here.  Myself, I have painted many things and have learned with almost every job.  Much like welding I suppose.  Thanks again for another very interesting thread. Music's not bad either!  Best regards Bob
Reply:Great paint tutorial Sam.Damned if I ever paint anything again unless it's attached to something that cannot go into the powder coater's oven.He just got a new one 20" long by 10" wide Excellent overview for anyone with little or no experience thinning and shooting paint. I've done my share of it, and avoid it now whenever possible.God Bless Safety Yellow Expert Garage Hack....https://www.facebook.com/steven.webber.948
Reply:Originally Posted by buggyman1Good job, they look great. A couple of questions, I can tell in the pics you used the Van Sickle brand primer, what type is it or do they make just one type?  Where would I find the Van Sickle brand, maybe Tractor Supply, i'm in ky., not sure what part of the country you're in. Like I said before, i'm not a painter so i'm gonna buy a spray gun, what brand, type should I be looking for?  Is your compressed air running through a water separator or straight from the compressor (I have one outlet plumbed-in with a separator that I never use, but could)?  I was hoping to get started this weekend, but realistically its probably gonna be next week sometime. I think i'll paint it outside to keep overspray off everything and i'll have plenty of room. Thanks so much for all your help, I think I can actually do this now.
Reply:You can contact Van Sickle to see if there any dealers in your area.  http://vansicklepaint.com/I'd imagine just about any good quality alkyd enamel would be good.  Most of the time, the paint just looks good until you really start using the equipment, then you don't care what it looks like after the first scratchIt's like the people who buy the little bottle of touch up paint for their brand new car.  After they smash a few shopping carts at WalMart, the little bottle just sits forgotten in the glove compartment"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Oh yeah...........sorry I forgot.....The rubber line that connects to the hard line is also important.  Set it up so it is the first stage in the system.  The loop you see in the pics keeps water inside the compressor tank to some degree.  Remember that your tank is your most important part of the condensation process."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopI'm looking forward to this thread.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749Damned if I ever paint anything again unless it's attached to something that cannot go into the powder coater's oven.He just got a new one 20" long by 10" wide
Reply:Here is my air set-up, I don't use the oiler, I just put a few drops of oil in my air tools before each use. Attached Images
Reply:Very nice rundown on all the steps involved!!!!!Another cheap option that surprised the heck out of me is this gun...... http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-h...gun-47016.html Actually on sale for $9.99 in this months flyer. I bought it as a "use once, throw away" item. But it just works. I don't paint much where I need to mix paints and such but when needed it has produced some really good results. I have even used it to spray stains and clear coats on wood projects. Just clean it really good as Samm stated and it should last a while.  Buddy who just painted my pickup box uses an HVLP  Huskey gun from Home Depot. 1 coat high build primer, 1 coat primer/sealer, 3 coats color, 2 coats clear all with the same gun. Just goes to say you don't need to spend big $$$ for a good paint job. If anything you can just use it as a beginner practice gun and upgrade later as needed. Here's a couple pics of same gun being used to primer my horse trailer few yrs back. Had a buddy come finish the color later and not sure what gun he used but I know it was a cheaper gun knowing him.Term limits...... 1 in office...... 1 in jail.Lincoln WeldPak 175 HD w/ gasWelding PHD...... (Pile Higher and Deeper)Pen and paperHalf-azzed brain
Reply:Originally Posted by AcemanSounds like his business is shrinking at that size....
Reply:Farmersamm,Thanks for taking the time to put all of this together.  It is a huge help for us rattle can folks that want to get better.
Reply:Always enjoy your posts!  You make a city boy like me envious!
Reply:Earth to samm....Here's the paint gun I bought. I'm not opposed to getting a better one if I need to. I've been looking at the positive pressure masks....ouch...They are proud of them. Against your better wishes, i'm gonna have to try it with a regular mask. I am going to paint it outside and i'm keeping in mind of what happened to you so i'm going to try and be as careful as I can be. I hope to get everything wrapped up and start painting sometime this week. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by buggyman1Earth to samm....Here's the paint gun I bought. I'm not opposed to getting a better one if I need to. I've been looking at the positive pressure masks....ouch...They are proud of them. Against your better wishes, i'm gonna have to try it with a regular mask. I am going to paint it outside and i'm keeping in mind of what happened to you so i'm going to try and be as careful as I can be. I hope to get everything wrapped up and start painting sometime this week.