Help deciding - new Miller Sync210 or Lincoln Precision 225

admin

So I'm new to TIG, experienced with MIG.  Am not finding anything on CL after a lot of searching and am debating over new machines.  Plan to do Al and Steel work, usually never thicker than 1/4".  I'm looking for a machine that I can learn and get proficient on - and will satisfy the needs for a long time (Hobbyist working mostly on Rock Crawlers).  I'd appreciate thoughts on which is a better/preferred machine - the new Syncrowave 210 or the Precision 225.  I have easy access to 230 in my workshop and don't mind the size of these units.Thanks!Joe
Reply:Inverter vs transformer. I'd go inverter (miller) out of those 2 choices, but i don't care for either one personally. Lots of better choices for the money.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:The pt225 has another 20 amps. Yes there really 230 amps. And is about 250$ cheaper. And I think the pt225 is smaller. The miller has optional 110 but that's it. I bought the pt225 new about 8 months ago. Don't buy the ready pack and just build your own cart. And you will need want a 336 bottle there the biggest ones. I use mine all the time and really like it. The duty cycle is another story it's not the best. It's 100% at 90 amps but drops like a Rock after that. The htp 221 has double the duty cycle but I think those machines are 2500$ and there inverters wich tend to break. If you plan on doing Al alot get a sycrowave 250 I really want to upgrade to one myself
Reply:Just don't even consider longevity !!!!! Pure junk!!
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313think those machines are 2500$ and there inverters wich tend to break. If you plan on doing Al alot get a sycrowave 250 I really want to upgrade to one myself
Reply:Tigmaniac said his longevity just blew up last week. He's the guy who just posted the 3rd hand video. Shovelon said his dynasty 700 broke. I've seen and heard way more stories too. I mean if you think longevity is a good machine that just means your words are not the most accurate either.
Reply:In that price range I would go with an HTP Invertig 221. Between the two that you mentioned I think the Miller wins because it has more features (adjustable AC frequency primarily), but the problem is the Miller unit makes you pay more for those features, even though they are are just software upgrades. The Invertig has a SOLID reputation on these boards, HTP has great customer service, and the Invertig has more features included by default that you don't have to pay extra for.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Isn't a dynasty another 600 only over the htp 221
Reply:This would be a great welder for you if you could get the seller to come back to his senses on price. This unit really should not be much more than $1800 and arguably lower. The cooler is not a great cooler, and probably not worth more than a couple of hundred dollars. The unit itself is $1000-$1500 on most days, but you occasionally find them as low as $400-$500 if you look hard enough. It is for sure a very nice welder. Virtually identical to mine.   http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/4940046538.htmlMiller Multimatic 255
Reply:Isn't a dynasty another 600 only over the htp 221
Reply:That's a nice looking sync. I've seen machine only go for 1500 to 1800 most of the time. There was a newer sync in portland for around that same price. I think it was around 2004 model
Reply:I have a 210 sync, love it, I have the first version that doesn't support mig. And they are expandable, freq for ac and pulse for dcMiller Syncrowave 210 w/CK FlexLoc 150  3/6/14ESAB PCM 1125 Plasma CutterAtlas 12x36 LatheACER 9x42 3hp millHarig 612 Surface GrinderDRINK Machine              welding&fabrication
Reply:Originally Posted by motolife313 Shovelon said his dynasty 700 broke. I've seen and heard way more stories too.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonHuh? When did that happen? Why did not someone tell my sooner? Last time I checked it was running fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonHuh? When did that happen? Why did not someone tell my sooner? Last time I checked it was running fine.
Reply:Thanks Guys - I have dealt with HTP before (Bought one of their helmets as a spare) and agree they are good customer service wise.  I've looked at their inverting, but was staying away as I thought the overwhelming direction was go Blue or Red....I'll do some more research on the HTP now though!I was eyeing that 250 on CL here - seemed too pricey to me and looks like that's the case.  It does look almost new though...
Reply:Offer him 2250 for the 250
Reply:Seems the units on CL out here are all asking too much.  There's a 180 Synch with watercooler but he want's 2100 for that one.  It looks clean and nearly new from the add.  http://portland.craigslist.org/yam/tls/4942792699.html  This one is more like it price wise but looks used much harder:  http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/for/4939240016.htmlI also see this 250:  http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/hvo/4942607249.html  which also seems to pricey at $2700Just saw HTP's 221 - looks impressive and at ~$2500 a decent price for a brand new unit with 3 yr warranty.  Plus it's an inverter so small and light.   Specs look excellent too.  Only bummer is it's out of stock and back ordered....  Is this a Chicom built welder or do they mfg here in the USA?
Reply:2100 for a sync 180 is way to much. I would buy one of the 250s. If u plan on doing AL you want the 250. You will need the duty cycle the 250 has. I think dynasty 200 is 3200$
Reply:I think the htp is built in Italy or something. It's not a chicom unit, htp has a good reputation.Millermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:Is this a Chicom built welder or do they mfg here in the USA?
Reply:I also see this 250: http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/hvo/4942607249.html which also seems to pricey at $2700
Reply:Those 250s hold there value. I bet Somone will give him over 2200 for it
Reply:Been reading up some - man this forum is good.  I'm leaning very strongly on the HTP 221.  Looks like everyone loves it and haven't seen a post yet saying it wasn't a great machine.  I'm happy with my past dealings with HTP so my own experience with them has mirrored what everyone says.  I know I'm probably looking at more machine than I'll know what to do with at first but I firmly believe in buying more than I "need" as I'm sure I'll grow into it.Will let y'all know how it turns out!
Reply:Just try not to get addicted once you buy a machine.Are you kidding?  I'm already addicted.  Been Mig welding for a long time now, love the sound of a good "bacon fry" and get a very strange level of satisfaction from a good bead.  I view learning to TIG just the next step in the overall addiction - worse too that I don't try to make $ from it...it's purely for my own hobby and fun.  So maybe it's a "recreational habit"?!?!
Reply:So what do you plan on building and welding?
Reply:I do a bunch of tube work and sheet metal work on rock crawlers and other classic fords.  Have a 65 mustang fastback, 67 bronco, 72 Bronco, '50 F1 pick up, and my '76 crawler Bronco.  I'm also a fisherman so want to be able to do Al and SS for that.I like building all sorts of stuff...have built some hefty cow feeders using .120 wall steel and need to build some Al "roofs" for my wife's bee hives.  Also plan to build a base for a slab table - can get really amazing tree slabs up here and should be able to build a table easy enough.And of course a cart for the new welder!Last edited by tx1ton; 03-22-2015 at 01:42 AM.
Reply:If you do decide to go miller, go to zoro.com and sign up for email notifications.  It seems like about once a month they have a 30% off sale.  Last one was st patricks day and it was only 4 hours.  I bought mine in January the same way.Syncrowave 210HH140Victor O/A
Reply:bought a Lincoln PT 225 around 2005 or 06 because in 03 I bought a dynasty 200 and it is a piece of junk when it wants to start an arc its nice but nowhere near as nice as the Lincolns arc before the dynajunk I had a syncro 180 it was good but not as nice as the PT225, keep it in good shape and with the red and blue annual price increase you can sell in 6-7 years for what you paid, sold my 225 2 yrs ago for exactly what I paid, bought a 375 amp machine, way nicer foot pedal and torch with the Lincoln 225, I would definitely go with the PT225 over the miller, also I would look at the HTP 221 if your doing a lot of alum. never tried it { HTP 221 } but the inverters seem to excel on alum. even my dynajunk when your talking 200 amp rigs, life of inverters are in question no matter if they have low hrs. or tons of hrs. mine is 12 yrs. old still going as aggravating as ever, scared every time I go to use it, if I were to go for another 200 amp machine inverter it would probably be htp, transformer would be pt225
Reply:Thanks Pat.  I'm curious - as someone who's been intimately involved in the Semiconductor industry for >30 years now why is everyone so afraid of the inverter machines?  I know first hand the rigorous quality standards we build processors and other assorted control chips, power FETS, etc.  They are all built to withstand >10 years of typical use case abuse.  So on the inverter machines I'm assuming folks have had bad experiences with them but what has been the main failure mode and diagnosis?  I would bet in today's world of disposable electronics most returns/repairs simply replace entire boards and customers rarely ever get to learn which component is the root cause of the failure but I'd be interested to know if anyone has that info....
Reply:Originally Posted by tx1tonI do a bunch of tube work and sheet metal work on rock crawlers and other classic fords.  Have a 65 mustang fastback, 67 bronco, 72 Bronco, '50 F1 pick up, and my '76 crawler Bronco.  I'm also a fisherman so want to be able to do Al and SS for that.I like building all sorts of stuff...have built some hefty cow feeders using .120 wall steel and need to build some Al "roofs" for my wife's bee hives.  Also plan to build a base for a slab table - can get really amazing tree slabs up here and should be able to build a table easy enough.And of course a cart for the new welder!
Reply:heres my pt225 and couple of welds I made with it.
Reply:Nice looking bead!  I pulled the trigger on the HTP221 today.  Figured that I wanted to buy once and buy well.  For the price it seems the most bang for the buck - and HTP treated me well and quite fairly.  I spoke to the rep there and he set me up with everything I need.  It should hit my doorstep Friday - very excited to try it out!!
Reply:Nice man have fun learning with it!post some weld pics
Reply:Will do!  I'm jazzed.  I started out pretty sure I was going with Miller or Lincoln (as the title of the post indicates) but after reading up on it the HTP seems like a great alternative to get into a really good unit with best $'s value.  I like it's flexibility (I got a dual voltage air cooled 221) and features.  I did look at CL around here and while I found some Synch 180 or 250's available it seems everyone is very proud of them - I'm sure that's a vote of confidence for Miller but when faced with buying someone else's used equipment or a new warranty unit for around the same price or a few $ more it wasn't an obvious choice to go used.  Add to that a few CL folks were pretty pissy to talk to - guess they didn't really want to sell their welders!I am impressed with HTP's customer service too - the fellow I spoke with was very helpful and tossed in a bunch of goodies to sweeten the deal.  Shipped to my door this coming Friday - Christmas in March!
Reply:Good solid choice htp is a great company and there welders have a good reputation.Millermatic 211Miller Syncrowave 350lx with cooler and tigrunner Thermal Dynamics cutmaster 811955 National Cylinder Gas O/A setup with original patina
Reply:HTP is a good call. I can't imagine you will ever be disappointed. You may want to start saving up for a water cooled torch because you KNOW that is next, right??Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by Louie1961You may want to start saving up for a water cooled torch because you KNOW that is next, right??
Reply:Oh yeah, I know, I know.....  It's kind've like the Rock Crawling addiction - in fact it's all a part of it.  Were it not for that I'd never have gotten into welding to begin with. Or had 3 Broncos.  Or a workshop.  Or RV and enclosed trailer to haul it all to crawling events...or another 15 years until retirement which will likely never happen due this addiction...Oh well, that's why we have beer I guess!
Reply:Originally Posted by tx1tonWill do!  I'm jazzed.  I started out pretty sure I was going with Miller or Lincoln (as the title of the post indicates) but after reading up on it the HTP seems like a great alternative to get into a really good unit with best $'s value.  I like it's flexibility (I got a dual voltage air cooled 221) and features.  I did look at CL around here and while I found some Synch 180 or 250's available it seems everyone is very proud of them - I'm sure that's a vote of confidence for Miller but when faced with buying someone else's used equipment or a new warranty unit for around the same price or a few $ more it wasn't an obvious choice to go used.  Add to that a few CL folks were pretty pissy to talk to - guess they didn't really want to sell their welders!I am impressed with HTP's customer service too - the fellow I spoke with was very helpful and tossed in a bunch of goodies to sweeten the deal.  Shipped to my door this coming Friday - Christmas in March!
Reply:The Bought it part is done.  Expect it delivered Friday.  The addiction should start this weekend as I play with it!
Reply:You may want to go out today and get some stuff you will need before you can really begin trying it out. Hopefully Paul at HTP reminded you (or even better, threw in for free) some tungstens and maybe a gas lens kit. Things that you will need: tungstens, cups, collets, collet bodies, filler wire, argon, and tig gloves come to mind. I am sure there is other stuff as well. i don't know how much of this list will come with the welder and how much you need to pick up on your own.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Paul set me up pretty well.  Tungstens, std parts kit for the 17 gun, filler for Al, Mild Steel, and SS, the correct plug for my electrical, and a few other items to boot.  I did pickup a pair of Tillman gloves at the LWS when getting Ar too.  I will be heading out to my local metal supply, there's a really good place near by that I can get scraps from for practicing on pretty cheaply - they sell scrap by the pound and I've scored some really good stuff there...
Reply:good on ya...enjoy...Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:Originally Posted by tx1tonPaul set me up pretty well.  Tungstens, std parts kit for the 17 gun, filler for Al, Mild Steel, and SS, the correct plug for my electrical, and a few other items to boot.  I did pickup a pair of Tillman gloves at the LWS when getting Ar too.  I will be heading out to my local metal supply, there's a really good place near by that I can get scraps from for practicing on pretty cheaply - they sell scrap by the pound and I've scored some really good stuff there...
Reply:Steel is .50/lb.  I've not priced his Al, but he does have it.  SS too.  Will let ya' know after this weekend!
Reply:Excellent choice, I love my HTP 221, absolutely love it!I too am a huge Miller fan but when comparing features and prices, HTP was hard to beat!2 Hobart MIG welders, 1 on the gas 1 flux coreHTP Invertig 221 DV Eastwood TIG200HTP MIG 2400
Reply:I love my HTP-221.So many features, at first it's a little confusing to dial in, but then you discover just how much control you really have compared to the red and blue guys.LOL, just make sure to disconnect the pedal before you try stick or you be scratching yer head why it only delivers 4 amps-the pedal works in stick mode too when left plugged in, and you will be wondering WFT?-till you stomp the pedal Yup, they made in Italy and earn full respect in all of Europe. They the Ducati of TIG over there, which is where Lincoln's $5k tig is made.Last edited by wornoutoldwelder; 03-26-2015 at 09:22 AM.
Reply:Feeling good about it for sure - was a bit more than I started out to spend, but what ever isn't?!?!  I got the dual voltage version for flexibility - have a question about that for those with the 221, it seems you have to pick the plug you want to run, I chose the same plug as my Miller210 MIG - so how exactly do you run on 115V if you want?  Do I need to build a short extension converter setup with the 230V female running to a 115V male?  I've got something similar for my RV hookup for those times when 230 isn't available (for 30-50A hookups) but am not sure on the HTP setup....