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First off, I am brand new to any sort of welding, and have just been doing research for welding needed on this project. Despite my name, I want to rent out a Stick welder instead of MIG or TIG as dealing with a tank of gas sounds like too much of a hassle for my myself. I'm planning to construct an off road go kart (no engine) that will have a body made of 304 stainless steel rods/tubes, bars and plates. I know that Stick welding however needs consumable electrode rods which I can buy in sleeves, but I'm not sure which size, or how many sleeves I would need. There are apparently also stick welding wires which I'm finding a harder time learning about as some websites make it seem like I only need to use an electrode stick OR a wire. If I do in fact need the wire and electrode stick what type of stick would I be needing for the aforementioned steel, and what time of wire? If it helps, I'm planning on renting a Lincoln Electric Power MIG 210 Multi-Process Welder, on the products display page it mentions something about its Stick feature and stick electrodes. It says "handles up to" so I'm assuming you can only go up to and below this amount of inches.copy pasted from the product display page:DC Stick: Handles up to 5/32 in. stick electrodesLast edited by Argon72; 03-23-2022 at 11:48 AM.Reason: spelling mistake
Reply:You'd be better off buying a welder if you just want a stick welder. If this is a part-time project then you might be making this for weeks and weeks, maybe months. What can you hire that power mig for? $60/week? 5 weeks of that is $300, which would buy a cheap DC inverter from HF, amazon etc.You'll only use 3/32" and 1/8" rods, probably get by with only 3/32" if you wanted to. Max amps you'll need will be around 120 amps DC, so anything north of 140 amps that isn't too cheap to be true, will work.Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Reply:I would suggest watching a lot of YouTube videos on stick electrode welding followed by doing a lot of practice prior to doing any type of welding on that expensive stainless tubing. IMO MiG would be the easiest fastest and cleanest for a beginner for stainless tube welding. Thin tube is easy to burn through and blow out holes and ruin the tubes after making all the needed cuts to length with all the notches etc. this is true with any type of welding be it tig, Mig or stick electrode.Others with more experiance will chime in and get you going on the right path. Good luck with the project and be sure to post pics of your practice etc so you can get advice to help you improve.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:I appreciate the help on rods but I really only want this for the project. I plan to have all my pieces of stainless ready in the right sizes and cuts, then to rent out the welder for a couple days to practice for a few hours, than make the thing. I don't see myself welding again really so purchasing one might be too much of an investment, I also don't know what my parents would think of buying one. But they seem good so far with the idea of renting it out a couple days. The project is also going to be done in the summer when I'm off school and in a length of days between my part time job schedule so I should be able to focus all of my time on the welding for each day. And also thank you for reminding me about the amperage! I knew it something strange was going on. Before I started talking with the salesman to rent out a welder I was skimming through websites and learned I would need nowhere near 210 amps. He suggested a MIG/TIG/Stick all in one welder, so maybe that's why the amperage is so high? idk... But anyways, I'll definitely continue chatting with him to see if they rent out Stick welders with less amperage that I'm assuming would also cost less money. If not than I'd probably just go with the suggested welder though.Thanks again for your response, and also really quick one too. I will definitely be coming back on here for more welding help!
Reply:I will for sure be using YouTube videos to learn. And now that you mention it hopefully stainless steel is not crazy expensive or I might have to look into a different body material. Websites all seemed to suggest stainless steel as the best for off road go karts though which is why I stuck with it. I have heard a lot of good from MiG welding but what turns me off is the gas tank which I'm not sure where to find, how easy they are to get, how expensive it will be, and how big/heavy they are (my family owns a 7 seater suv, so it would probably be transported like that.Last edited by Argon72; 03-23-2022 at 12:14 PM.Reason: spelling mistake
Reply:I suggest you add your location to your profile. Hopefully a member is close enough to help you get started. A stainless steel go kart is an ambitious first project with no training nor experience. I’ve been welding a long time with MIG, TIG, and stick equipment and I would think a long time before doing it. A go kart is potentially very dangerous if your welding is not solid. Stainless steel is trickier than steel. MIG or TIG would be my choice.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 120www.10FtDrillBit.comwww.MyWelds.com - pictures of my work
Reply:My biggest concern is not what welder you rent or buy “ Munkul is right “ cheaper to keep her. You can get a decent affordable stick welder in a small compact lunchbox size for less than $200 shipped. 2 hours or two days of practice does not sound practical to learn the required skills needed for stick welding round tubing or any welding for that matter. There are many pipe fitters here that can give advice on practice prior to attacking the project. 2 days is just not practical IMO to allow for enough time to learn how to manipulate the rod “stick electrode” and end up with a sturdy “ SAFE “ yet good looking kart.Last edited by N2 Welding; 03-23-2022 at 12:29 PM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:The welding practice you mentioned will require months not hours. If you do proceed with this project, post pics of your practice welds so we can provide some input to your technique so you get the weld quality needed for this project.ChrisAuction Addict
Reply:
Originally Posted by milomilo
The welding practice you mentioned will require months not hours. If you do proceed with this project, post pics of your practice welds so we can provide some input to your technique so you get the weld quality needed for this project.
Reply:What is the thickness of the material?
Reply:
Originally Posted by Argon72
I'm planning to construct an off road go kart (no engine) that will have a body made of 304 stainless steel rods/tubes, bars and plates.
Reply:What is this Off Road Go kart with no engine?have you priced out the Stainless?
Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:You can buy the welder, take your time with the project, then sell it on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace, or even here on the buy-sell page. That is same as renting in my opinion, and probably cheaper for the amount of time you will need it for.If doing your own welding interests you or is important to you, then go for it. If it is just something that needs to be done to complete the project, I would cut and fit the pieces and clamp and duct tape them together and take it to a shop, or again post here for welding work and have someone else do the welding. Which I think, even at $100 an hour would be cheaper than doing it yourself.Last edited by bead-boy; 03-23-2022 at 03:07 PM.Century buzzbox that I learned on 40+ years ago (was Dad's)Crappy Century 110volt mig 70 amp pigeon pooper.Lincoln Idealarc TIG-300
Reply:
Originally Posted by Broccoli1
What is this Off Road Go kart with no engine?
Reply:
Originally Posted by sand_man_red
What is the thickness of the material?
Reply:Buy one of the welders Scott V recommends. Renting for something like this is dumb and doubly so since the price of the machine has went way down, one day rental expense and its yours. This is way unrealistic in time frame, the difficulty etc.Last edited by Sberry; 03-23-2022 at 07:08 PM.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I'm making popcorn.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:I am wondering if this is going to be mocked and fabd up on the ground or if there is some kind of work bench, table etc that will be used. My first table was a couple of saw horses and a sheet of plywood.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
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Originally Posted by N2 Welding
others can look at other people and think huh look at that dirty grungy looking welder dude, it can’t be all that difficult, I’ll just rent a welder and bust it out easy peasy. How hard can it be? I mean if Biff or Bubba can do it and make it look that easy then how hard could it actually be? lol
Reply:"I mean if Biff or Bubba can do it and make it look that easy then how hard could it actually be?" Up North here ain't many Bubbas. We got our share of Biffs. Biffs wear tennis clothing. They don't own a hand tool of any kind. If they have a garage, the BMW is parked in it, there is NOTHING else. No, they would never attempt to weld, they have a guy for that. Biffs talk through their nose & they are married to Barbie. Nearly ALL Biffs live in New York NY, they have a weekend place in VT, unless they moved to VT because of Covid & "work from home".An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:A few thoughts - for what ever they're worth. 1. I agree with others that the project outlined - and material specified - is not a 1st time welder project. That doesn't mean you can't. Anyone can try anything they want. Of course, results vary widely. 2. I also agree with those saying that welding takes a lot of practice. 3. Because of 1 and 2 above - I would most definitely NOT rent a welder - of any kind/process. I would purchase a welder. 4. I have had a welder (machine) in the family since the 90's - dads small flux core machine. That is the machine I first learned to weld on and used it for many projects. I still have it but I burned up some wiring in it. I made new wires, but in the process ended up acquiring a Lincoln Idealarc 250/250 AC/DC stick machine (1966 MY, there is a restoration thread on it in the Lincoln forum here). I have been around a lot of farms as I worked in that industry for several years - and I've worked in several farm shops fixing things and making things on-site. I can't recall one farm shop that didn't have a stick welder, if not used regularly at least "there". Back in college I took a metallurgy & welding course. We went through the basics of metals to forging to O/A cutting, brazing, & welding all the way through TIG welding. Of course, all of that combined in to 1 course meant there was little time spent on each area. However, through all that I came to realize how versatile stick welding is.Today I own 2 stick machines - the old round top Idealarc and an Everlast PowerArc 210STL stick/tig machine. One important piece of advice to pass on to any prospective welder - or anyone that works on things that may do some welding here and there - is to have an old transformer tombstone stick welder on-hand that does DC. The Lincoln AC225 is the most common "tombstone" welder. The vast majority of them are AC-only machines. They do have a DC version, however. That is the most widely available unit. You can go to the big box stores and usually find an AC225 on the shelf, though the DC versions aren't usually stocked - though I imagine you can find them from time to time, otherwise you can order them. However, the newer lower-end transformer stick machines are not made like they used to be. The newer ones have been built to cheaper standards for manufacturing cost reasons, I'm sure. Generally, the older and heavier the tombstone, the better it is. Miller made some nice ones also - Thunderbolts. Anything in the late 50's through the early 70's or so would be good to look in to. They didn't know how to make things cheap then, so they just made things heavy and robust - which is why they are so good. They have honest thick copper wound transformers, inductors, and reactors in them that make them work as good as they do. You can't substitute the mass of those iron cores and copper windings. That is why you can still buy a Lincoln Idealarc 250/250 today - redesigned in a square box and costing several thousand dollars. That is a significantly different machine than an AC/DC 225!!! Though, the fact that you can still buy an honest transformer stick machine like that (although very expensive today) should tell you something - they work well and there is a reason they're still made. Because of the cost of the new Idealarc's - I'd look for old ones. Those or Miller Thunderbolts. They are available and if you know what to look for they can be had pretty cheap. If the price seems high people are either proud of what they have or think they know what they have. A nicely restored unit with shiny paint can bring a higher price for someone interested in paying the $$ for the clean nostalgic machine, but if you have an eye for the condition some of these units can be found in you can look through the grunge and surface rust and find a real nice, good working machine for not a lot of $. If the machine comes from a school then the current adjustment mechanics can be worn out and in need of work (both the switched transformers like the AC/DC225 and the variable ractors in the Idealarcs and Thunderbolts). Students tend to adjust things a bunch when learning which gives those components a lot more use cycles = wears them out. That would be something to look in to on any units you may find - what does it take to bring those components back up to snuff? Or do you need to replace them? The switch contacts on my 1966 Idealarc, for example, were easily disassembled and shined up (they were arc'ed over a few times - check the restoration thread - details are in there). 5. After knowing what I know now about welding processes and versatility - I would highly recommend anyone interested in welding to have an old transformer tombstone machine. They will last and always be around to stick metal together with. If you have a new inverter welder that, for what ever reason, goes down - or you have a wire feed machine (flux core or MIG) that a wire feeder poops out on - you will have the old tombstone there to pick up the slack if you have to keep going and you can't wait to get the machine that went down fixed. If the world blew up tomorrow there will be 2 things left - cockroaches and old transformer welders.6. Get a good electronic auto-dimming welding hood. GOOD - not cheap (like harbor freight cheap). Don't mess with the fixed shade hoods - conventional hoods or pancake shields. Maybe later down the road if you really got in to welding and found yourself in weird positions then I would consider a pancake, though with electronic auto dimming lens. Visibility is everything - especially when learning. If you can't see learning is going to be slower, and more painful. That is where a good auto-dimming hood is a blessing. You can adjust them for the conditions so you can SEE. This will allow you to see the weld pool and what is happening there. If you can not see where you are starting your arc and you can not clearly see your weld pool (think too dark of shade) you will not be able to gauge your weld heat, how the arc is reacting to the base metal, how the pool is flowing, and how the pool is flowing, etc. A lot of tuning your weld heat is done by inspecting the weld post-welding. However, you need to be able to steer the pool when you are welding and focus the arc - and you have to see those to be able to properly control them. Good luck!
Reply:My opinion only, but I have had good results with a Cheap HF auto dimming hood. I buy 2 five packs of replacement outer shields, as they pit and scratch easily. I like that there is enough room for my respirator with pink filters and my goggles under my hood. I have only been welding since 2015. I have a 1982 or so Miller Dialarc. I love it, works great. Took me a good couple of years to lay beads straight and do runners. I am just a hobbyist. J
Reply:Argon, As others have very tenderly suggested; what you describe may be much more complex an undertaking that your posts seem to indicate you even remotely comprehend!"I plan to have all my pieces of stainless ready in the right sizes and cuts, then to rent out the welder for a couple days to practice for a few hours, than make the thing."Ah, to be young and bullet-proof again! The good old days, thanks Argon, for the reminder of what we all felt about ourselves before we began to weld and make things. Even if you're trolling us and not serious; it was worth the laugh to read your confidence in learning to weld SS tube (WITH STICK !!! ) in a few hours! I used to tell young welded aluminum boat builders, who were planning to build but hadn't done so yet: "That first dozen or so skiffs is a real education!" The guys who worked for me and in other welding shops used to have a sort of condescending phrase when we heard people tell us what they were going to do..... "Well, yah just...." yep, just practice for a few hours and you'll be welding SS tube with STICK!!!!Why not save yourself some money? Buy a foot or two of the tube you plan to use, get some joints made up ("right sizes and cuts") and then go to the local welding supply or rental and just try to light up on those joints w stick electrodes? (!) Heck, just get some thin SS plate scraps and try to run some stick on them! The experience will inform you of the skill you don't have and would have to develop in order to do what you're describing.(if you're serious??) You should do lots more research, which will reveal you should get the cart frame drawn, planned, joints cut and prepped then take your project to a welder to have welding done. Not real-world to plan to do the work yourself if your experience is what your posts imply/inform.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:I think Argon has given up or doesn’t want any more advice. As Kevin said, this might just be a troll anyway. I suggest this thread be closed unless he posts again.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 120www.10FtDrillBit.comwww.MyWelds.com - pictures of my work
Reply:
Originally Posted by wb4rt
I think Argon has given up or doesnt want any more advice. As Kevin said, this might just be a troll anyway. .I think he is embarrassed and hopefully humbled by the whole experiance. I'm guessing if he was not trollong that once he looked into the cost of materials alone he decided he would be better off switching up his hobbies interests.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
I think he is embarrassed and hopefully humbled by the whole experiance. I'm guessing if he was not trollong that once he looked into the cost of materials alone he decided he would be better off switching up his hobbies interests.
Reply:My patience with dating is even more impressive, You dont know what someone is really like until you get to know them. That is why its called dating not some other choice word.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:We will always trust you to make good choices, Tony.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk:
Reply:Hardy har har
Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Kevin Morin
Argon, As others have very tenderly suggested; what you describe may be much more complex an undertaking that your posts seem to indicate you even remotely comprehend!"I plan to have all my pieces of stainless ready in the right sizes and cuts, then to rent out the welder for a couple days to practice for a few hours, than make the thing."Ah, to be young and bullet-proof again! The good old days, thanks Argon, for the reminder of what we all felt about ourselves before we began to weld and make things. Even if you're trolling us and not serious; it was worth the laugh to read your confidence in learning to weld SS tube (WITH STICK !!! ) in a few hours! I used to tell young welded aluminum boat builders, who were planning to build but hadn't done so yet: "That first dozen or so skiffs is a real education!" The guys who worked for me and in other welding shops used to have a sort of condescending phrase when we heard people tell us what they were going to do..... "Well, yah just...." yep, just practice for a few hours and you'll be welding SS tube with STICK!!!!Why not save yourself some money? Buy a foot or two of the tube you plan to use, get some joints made up ("right sizes and cuts") and then go to the local welding supply or rental and just try to light up on those joints w stick electrodes? (!) Heck, just get some thin SS plate scraps and try to run some stick on them! The experience will inform you of the skill you don't have and would have to develop in order to do what you're describing.(if you're serious??) You should do lots more research, which will reveal you should get the cart frame drawn, planned, joints cut and prepped then take your project to a welder to have welding done. Not real-world to plan to do the work yourself if your experience is what your posts imply/inform.Cheers,Kevin MorinKenai, AK
Reply:
Originally Posted by Munkul
A bit like skiing. Very few people can just "do it", it takes instruction and many weeks of skiing to get to the point where it looks... effortless. lol
Reply:My very first weld was great at age 10. I had watch good welders for years in my father's shop before my first weld. Dave
Originally Posted by Munkul
It really annoys me, that. It took me years to get to the point where I could really lay a good weld without trying. A bit like skiing. Very few people can just "do it", it takes instruction and many weeks of skiing to get to the point where it looks... effortless. lol
Reply:
Originally Posted by Lis2323
Are you trying to tell us something regarding your recent ski trip
?
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Reply:Never been snow skiing myself and always wanted to try snow boarding. I use to skateboard when I was younger and had good ballace. I could spin on the back wheels doing about 5 or more 360's in one go. However on a snowboard, I fear I'd get all busted up from kissing a tree a little to fast.Last edited by N2 Welding; 03-28-2022 at 05:05 AM.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Munkul
Yeah... whilst trying to teach my wife (her first time)1. I've been skiing for years and I started out like her, nervous and ungainly. Now I flatter myself that I've got quite good technique, and mostly that's because I skiied with ex instructors and guides for so long. Easy to learn how to ski better when following some really good guys for weeks on end.2. I can't teach skiing for toffee.
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发表于 2022-5-19 11:02:49