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hi ya'll. i have a 240v 2hp deep water well pump and an 1994 coleman power mate 4000 watt 240v generator. i was wondering if the generator would start and run this well pump. the water line discharge has a one-way valve installed so there is no load on pump at start up. thank you! its still snowing in n.c. arkansas with 6 inches of snow expected. i love the snow but to old to enjoy it!lincoln 125spdayton 250 ac/dcmiller 211 w/spool gunahp 200 sx tiglotos ltp5000dkubota b3200 FEL BHof course duramax diesel
Reply:It is pushing the limits But plug the pump in to generator runs the pump. The odds are it will trip the breaker on the generator. The generator only will produce 16 amps and that about what a 2 hp motor needs.Dave
Originally Posted by duramax-rob
hi ya'll. i have a 240v 2hp deep water well pump and an 1994 coleman power mate 4000 watt 240v generator. i was wondering if the generator would start and run this well pump. the water line discharge has a one-way valve installed so there is no load on pump at start up. thank you! its still snowing in n.c. arkansas with 6 inches of snow expected. i love the snow but to old to enjoy it!
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
It is pushing the limits But plug the pump in to generator runs the pump. The odds are it will trip the breaker on the generator. The generator only will produce 16 amps and that about what a 2 hp motor needs.Dave
Reply:Not a chance in my opinion. The start up/in rush current will overload your generator. If that generator doesn't produce clean power (less than 5%THD or so) you'll be further handicapped. Motors don't run efficiently on dirty power
Reply:Louie's right. It might run it once the pump is up to speed but startup could possibly stall the engine to the point it can't recover RPMs. Fill the bathtub for flushing toilets, etc. and fill sterile containers for drinking and cooking water in case the gennie can't do it.Ol' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Full load amps on that pump are probably 10 - 13A (3,100 watts), but your current inrush is up to 72A for a 2hp motor. I don't think that your generator will pull it.Miller Trailblazer Pro 350DMiller Suitcase MIGMiller Spectrum 2050Miller Syncrowave 250DXLincoln 210MP
Reply:The good news on generators is on starting motors is the generator slows down giving time for motor to start. It take a little longer start.I had a 5KW generator and it started a 3HP water pump.Dave
Originally Posted by scsmith42
Full load amps on that pump are probably 10 - 13A (3,100 watts), but your current inrush is up to 72A for a 2hp motor. I don't think that your generator will pull it.
Reply:
Originally Posted by smithdoor
The good news on generators is on starting motors is the generator slows down giving time for motor to start. It take a little longer start.I had a 5KW generator and it started a 3HP water pump.Dave
Reply:If you wait to start it till your pressure is way down it will help with the load. Can’t hurt to try worst will happen is the breaker will tripMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:The only way to find out if works is try starting the pump on generator. Dave
Originally Posted by danielplace
Then a 4000 may be able to start 2hp if you were going by those figures. 2/3 of 5000 watt is only 3,333 watt.Your typical 2hp deep well water pump is showing 10.2 amps on 240 volt but see some showing up to 12.9 amp. With 16.6 on tap with no load on pump it should be able to start I would think.It is close enough you would have to test if it is true a 4000 with some extra for surge then it could start and run the pump.
Reply:i think i will try it just for grins. if the generator grunts more than a second ill trip the breaker! no sense burning out pump or generator. thank ya'll for all the replies. my head was a little fuzzy and could quite keep the math straight. Thanks again!lincoln 125spdayton 250 ac/dcmiller 211 w/spool gunahp 200 sx tiglotos ltp5000dkubota b3200 FEL BHof course duramax diesel
Reply:"discharge has a one-way valve installed so there is no load on pump at start up."This is probably incorrect.IF the pump was installed correctly it will have a foot valve(check valve) on the suction side.That combined with the discharge check valve means that the pump will have near full load at start up.Unless your riser pipe has a hole in it which is a whole nother problem.
Reply:It still has to lift that cloumn of water in the discharge pipe while starting.Ol' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:
Originally Posted by duramax-rob
i think i will try it just for grins. if the generator grunts more than a second ill trip the breaker! no sense burning out pump or generator. thank ya'll for all the replies. my head was a little fuzzy and could quite keep the math straight. Thanks again!
Reply:Years ago they used to rate some generators at max load not running load. But most good generators rating is for running amps and has another 1000 watts or more for starting. Sincerely, William McCormickIf I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.
Reply:I agree 👍 I had power outage needing water 💧. Had 5kw generator and 3hp pump. All did on starting the generator slow do for 2 seconds and back to speed. Now I had water again. Dave
Originally Posted by William McCormick
Years ago they used to rate some generators at max load not running load. But most good generators rating is for running amps and has another 1000 watts or more for starting. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:A winding in a motor limits current with magnetic impedance. At start up, there is no magnetic field. Magnetic field builds. Inrush current is several multiples of full load current. Your engine is not dissimilar to a lawn mower. Push it into tall grass, motor nearly stalls. When this happens to a generator engine, voltage & frequency plummet. Magnetic field strength plummets too. Amperage skyrockets. It'll stall the motor, or burn up a generator component.Are you sure you have a 2 HP pump. 1/2 is more common.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
Reply:
Originally Posted by William McCormick
It may take two, three seconds I don’t think you could burn anything out. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:
Originally Posted by duramax-rob
hi ya'll. i have a 240v 2hp deep water well pump and an 1994 coleman power mate 4000 watt 240v generator. i was wondering if the generator would start and run this well pump. the water line discharge has a one-way valve installed so there is no load on pump at start up. thank you! its still snowing in n.c. arkansas with 6 inches of snow expected. i love the snow but to old to enjoy it!
Reply:
Originally Posted by 12V71
Yeah, if the starting load is too much it should trip the breaker immediately. More than once I've had to put a jumper on the excitation breaker on a big genset (625KW and above) to get past the start surge when they could easily handle the running load. The peak hold on my clip on ammeter would jump to 1350KW but only for a couple of seconds, after that point we were back to 400 or so. Genset manufacturer taught me that trick.
Reply:A submercible has a check on the output, its sitting in water. But i only try too small gensets some time ago and dont remember. I forgot to turn off my cooler in an outage, i didnt hear the genset but it cooked the contactor on my cooler. But i have 6 and 8k welders, my 6 will start 5 hp and not so much as a burp.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:That is very true on welder generator. But do not know of a just generator that has a low idle.Dave
Originally Posted by William McCormick
If you generator has an automatic low idle make sure you put it in manual high idle. Sincerely, William McCormick
Reply:Above surface pump has a suction and needs a foot valve to keep the pump primed. Down hole sub pump nees one after, they actually add another about 1/2 way in deep ones, this keeps from drawing water back down and sucking air in. Helps some with start too. They do have checks on both systems so tank pressure not charging the suction.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:this water pump is down at 350 ft but cant remember how much water is over pump. after replacing pump last year and pvc pipe last year, i just didn't want to replace again this year. thanks to all !!!lincoln 125spdayton 250 ac/dcmiller 211 w/spool gunahp 200 sx tiglotos ltp5000dkubota b3200 FEL BHof course duramax diesel
Reply:I have you tried running the pump off the generator???Dave
Originally Posted by duramax-rob
this water pump is down at 350 ft but cant remember how much water is over pump. after replacing pump last year and pvc pipe last year, i just didn't want to replace again this year. thanks to all !!!
Originally Posted by smithdoor
I have you tried running the pump off the generator???Dave
Reply:If you use a drill to start it remove the left hand chuck retainer screw 'cause sometimes when the engine kicks it will unscrew the chuck shearing the screw. If possible put only non ethanol gas in it. The ethanol is what screws up carbs. I've been using non ethanol for several yrs in all my small engines and they can sit for months and start right up.Ol' Stonebreaker "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Sorry to hear about your finger 😢 .I agree with electric start mind is the old pull type. Try propane it starts on first pull and if forget to drain the gasoline your not cleaning the carb out before running. Dave
Originally Posted by duramax-rob
no, sorry i haven't. right before we had the ice storm last week in the midwest, i was adjusting the high rpm for volts on that generator when i stuck my index finger joint into the flywheel fan blade. took off the skin down to bone and been dealing with that and the cold weather. warmer today and will get generator finished and try out.yes, i had fan shroud off to work on generator and use drill to start it. i know it runs now after sitting for 7+ years. new carb for $14 was the cure. too old to pull start thats why the drill. will eventually convert to electric start.
Reply:Id want to have a clamp type ammeter when trying submersible pump on generator.You cant hear pump and only have engine sound and pressure gauge to tell if the pump has actually started.Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:It may take two, three seconds I don’t think you could burn anything out.
Reply:Just for comparison, I have a well that is 450 feet deep with static water level of 350-400 feet depending on the time of year. The water guy/driller put in a 3 hp 3 wire pump. My 8000 watt/13,000 starting watt Briggs and Stratton generator could barely start the pump. It would nearly stall when the pump kicked on and would take a second or two to recover. That generator had something like 20 or 25% total harmonic distortion. Last year I switched to a 7000 watt/8750 starting watt inverter (<2% total harmonic distortion), and it starts the well with no issue, and its almost not noticeable when the pump kicks on. The quality of the power the generator produces significantly affects well pumps.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:
Originally Posted by Louie1961
Just for comparison, I have a well that is 450 feet deep with static water level of 350-400 feet depending on the time of year. The water guy/driller put in a 3 hp 3 wire pump. My 8000 watt/13,000 starting watt Briggs and Stratton generator could barely start the pump. It would nearly stall when the pump kicked on and would take a second or two to recover. That generator had something like 20 or 25% total harmonic distortion. Last year I switched to a 7000 watt/8750 starting watt inverter (<2% total harmonic distortion), and it starts the well with no issue, and its almost not noticeable when the pump kicks on. The quality of the power the generator produces significantly affects well pumps.
Reply:
Originally Posted by duramax-rob
thanks for all replies. louie1961, is there a fairly easy way to find the harmonic distortion or is that info with generator spec.?
Reply:
Originally Posted by Louie1961
I have found that if a generator has low harmonic distortion/"clean power", the manufacturers like to crow about it. For those units it's usually easy to look up. The ones that don't have low THD or don't have "clean power" you may almost never find the actual number listed anywhere. In my case, my old generator was fairly popular for a while, especially with the off grid crowd, so there was a bunch of stuff written up by third parties (It was an EXL-8000 generator). I find this site useful but didn't see your Coleman listed. https://generatorbible.com/generator...y=db&order=ASCPrior to say 2015 (or so? This is a guess on my part) it was quite uncommon for non inverter generators to be classified as "clean power/low THD". To get such a generator required an expensive voltage regulator set up that most manufacturers just didn't offer at the box store price point.
Reply:yes, my coleman power mate 4000 is a 1994 model. i guess really unclean power. other "has to be fixed" have come up. will try by super bowl sunday to get the generator slowed down cause when i did my finger the voltage was 143v instead of 120v. was trying to get throttle down when i decided to give my finer what looks like a root canal. needs to clean mud dobbers mud from controls and try getting throttle to work. i will keep you informed as i go. i thought being retired you were suppose to have more time not less time! LOLlincoln 125spdayton 250 ac/dcmiller 211 w/spool gunahp 200 sx tiglotos ltp5000dkubota b3200 FEL BHof course duramax diesel |
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发表于 2022-2-9 15:52:22