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I’ve had the Langmuir crossfire shown below for a few months now. I’ve gotten a lot of use out of it and it’s paid itself off at this point so I’d like to improve it.My plan is to scrap the entire frame because it’s cheap. The only real expensive custom part is the gantry arm that houses all the bearing and X axis motor. This is my rough design. The stock crossfire can not utilize the entire space of the water table. By lengthening the rail for the gantry arm this can be relieved.The other issue the water table is flimsy as is the frame which is all 16g bolted together. My proposed design is 2x2 11g welded fully and the water table will be 1/8” sheet. My main question is, what’s the best way to weld this thing to keep it as absolutely flat and square as possible? If it warps it produces a lot of issues because the unit has no Z axis and it is imperative the gantry arm tracks over everything within around 1/16” I plan to add a third slat holder to make the slat curved but was too lazy to draw it. I also need to upgrade the Y axis to a 1/2” lead screw but will cross that road when i get to it.The photo below is the stock machine. It can only cut 25.5 x 23” though the water table is 26x33I’m my design the bottom is 1.5” angle and will have an expanded metal shelf.
www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:Looking at the table you have to go larger there will need to be some design changes, and maybe some electronics changes too.I have built a few tables in both 4x4 and 4x8 sizes. Here is a video on the slider system I use. One thing for sure no bolt together table.
You don't need 1/8" for the water table just a better table base.
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DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:Picked up the steel today. Going to start assembly tomorrow. What’s the best bet for keeping them this as square as possible while still welding all the joints I have the fixtures to clamp and tack it all square my issue is the welding. Should i tack the entire thing together first and just do one bead at a time letting it cool fully and hope for the best? Maybe a lower heat setting?www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:5th Street Fab put this video out a while ago. It might help you in welding the frame up as true as possible.edit: Oops I forgot to add the link. Hope you find it usefull. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=872m5surk4oLincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:Here is a right angle welding video by Jody at tips n tricksLincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:subscribed.
Reply:I would be concerned with adding any more mass to the moving parts on that table. Its ability to cut at and maintain plasma speeds is marginal in its stock form (motor sizing / gearing are designed to be purchased at a budget price). Also....will the software handle more travel than it is originally designed for? Great little budget machine for the small shop with one-off part requirements in its original form. Jim Colt
Reply:Started the build today.Need to grab another piece of tube for the main rail and the last piece of angle for the bottom shelfI think i am going to put it on casters as well. Unfortunately this machine has no Z axis so I need it to stay as flat as possible for everything to track properly. Otherwise it’s gonna become a lot of wasted metal.Also a little unconventional use of the corner clamps but it worked great.
Last edited by BrooklynBravest; 01-24-2019 at 02:31 PM.www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:
Originally Posted by jimcolt
I would be concerned with adding any more mass to the moving parts on that table. Its ability to cut at and maintain plasma speeds is marginal in its stock form (motor sizing / gearing are designed to be purchased at a budget price). Also....will the software handle more travel than it is originally designed for? Great little budget machine for the small shop with one-off part requirements in its original form. Jim Colt
Reply:Got the last 2 pieces tacked in place.Needed a little persuasion to get it right.Its dead square all around right now hopefully I can keep it that way. Thinking of welding it on a lower heat setting.Need to figure out the lead screw situation now. I need a 1/2 lead screw but the machine is meant for 3/8.
www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:keep plugging at it and you will be cutting thing soon.here is a router table I built for my daughter some time back.
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Last edited by acourtjester; 01-25-2019 at 05:36 PM.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:Personally, I’d upgrade to height control before anything. I bought a Go Torch when they first came out. I was given a 4’ gantry tube. Upgrading at least one axis to 4’ makes the machine much more useful. Then I upgraded to THC. This turned the machine from a toy to a tool. I have modified the table and software over the years as needed. I roll it outside the shop doors for cutting, as I think water tables are a huge mess.
Reply:
Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest
Thinking of welding it on a lower heat setting..
Reply:fully welded. It seems to not have distorted whatsoever. Rather than lower the heat, with the amount of welds each joint had I opted to weld the entire table vertical down position.I should have left well enough alone but I chose to grind the front legs smooth for whatever reason and now I have to weld some caps on so it doesnt look terrible.Unfortunately adding a height control is far beyond my scope of capabilities especially with the unsupported gantry arm design. This is a relatively cheap project at the moment Im only into it for $200, half of which is the stainless steel top rail. I do need one small adapter custom made on a lathe Id it interests anyone. Its very small.
www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:Nice progress.Lincoln, ESAB, Thermal Dynamics, Victor, Miller, Dewalt, Makita, Kalamzoo. Hand tools, power tools, welding and cutting tools.
Reply:
Originally Posted by N2 Welding
Nice progress.
Reply:I'd like to add casters to this but want to avoid using something with a giant wheel. It will almost never be moved.Is there any reason not to use a stem caster? It seems casters with at least a 2.5" mounting hole pattern to avoid the legs are pretty giant.www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:Small update. Had the water table made from 11g steel. $225 for materials and bending. It’s 27.5 x 50Casters go on tomorrow and will try to get the seams welded on the table.Also put some caps and grinded them down on the ends of the frame. Kind of wish i left well enough alone and went with my original plan to use plastic caps but i guess it looks alright. I’ve never been good at making a smooth transition on the corner where two unequal rounded tube edges meet
www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:nice looking work.apart from the grinding of perfectly good looking welds
Reply:Looks like you are on your way. I just got my 4 x 8 table motors moving last nite.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:
Originally Posted by Munkul
nice looking work.apart from the grinding of perfectly good looking welds
Reply:I have built a few table and used 2 types of Z assemblies, one uses linear bearings and the other used "V" bearings and rail both worked very well. The first one shows a floating head assembly (both had it) for detecting the metal surface before the cutting operation starts.
And if you looking for a reasonable priced THC look at the PriceCNC ACHV10.
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DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:
Originally Posted by acourtjester
I have built a few table and used 2 types of Z assemblies, one uses linear bearings and the other used "V" bearings and rail both worked very well. The first one shows a floating head assembly (both had it) for detecting the metal surface before the cutting operation starts.
And if you looking for a reasonable priced THC look at the PriceCNC ACHV10.
Reply:This may sound silly but I looked at your table with the Y axis being supported with only one rail. What If you put a wheel that would roll on the top of the outside rail to support it better. That may allow you to but more weight on the Y for the Z axis.Here are most of the parts you would need to build a Z axis only the stepper motor and mount would be needed to complete,, plus the electronics. you are only moving the torch and parts up/down so a small stepper would work.
These are both about 12" long.https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBR12-Linea...pFr7HziGwWd7kQ for 12 MM rods and bearingsprhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/SFU1605-End...5zB38Rpz1RqcLQ for 16 MM rods and bearings
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DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:
Originally Posted by acourtjester
This may sound silly but I looked at your table with the Y axis being supported with only one rail. What If you put a wheel that would roll on the top of the outside rail to support it better. That may allow you to but more weight on the Y for the Z axis.Here are most of the parts you would need to build a Z axis only the stepper motor and mount would be needed to complete,, plus the electronics. you are only moving the torch and parts up/down so a small stepper would work.
These are both about 12" long.https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBR12-Linea...pFr7HziGwWd7kQ for 12 MM rods and bearingsprhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/SFU1605-End...5zB38Rpz1RqcLQ for 16 MM rods and bearingsGot the casters on. Gotta weld the corners of the table still. After that Im waiting on the lead screw to arrive.
Reply:Any reason not to use truck bed liner epoxy for the water table?www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:If the water is not deep enough the plasma stream may contact it and burn it.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:
Originally Posted by acourtjester
If the water is not deep enough the plasma stream may contact it and burn it.
Reply:maybe this will helphttps://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-NEMA-23...wAAOSwPe1UIb~uhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Z-axis-...MAAOSwcLxYF9ZkDIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:
Originally Posted by acourtjester
maybe this will helphttps://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-NEMA-23...wAAOSwPe1UIb~uhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Z-axis-...MAAOSwcLxYF9Zk
Reply:Yes I think you will need support for the gantry arm due to the added weight of a motor controlled Z Axis. The first step after you have a motor driven Z axis is to put what is called a floating head switch. This will allow you to have the G-code move the torch down and touch the metal and set the Z axis position to o.o" then it will back up to the pierce height and light the torch and then after the pierce it then moves to the cut height (0.060") and completes the cutting operation.The if later you add a ohmic sensor (this does the same thing a floating head switch does it better) story gets a little lng herethis show what I am talking about.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:Small update.TIG Welded the water table seams.Added the mounts for the water table.Added the mount for the electronics enclosure.Drilled the stainless rail Designed the slat bedThe water table mounts fit perfectly, but it may be too perfect. I did not consider until after i welded it that the the thickness of the paint may be an issue. Worst case i think it will just need some persuasion.Next i will mag drill a hole for a drain plug and then its on to the slat bed.
www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:Here’s the slat bed design.The slats are spaced 2” apart with a 1” offset to the center for the curve. Hopefully this is enough of a bend to lock them in place in the holders. I drew the holders with a 1/4” gap to slide slats into not sure if 3/16 would be better for 1/8” slats. The slats are 2” tall as well.
www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:without criticising... why have you chosen not to go with a full gantry? and stayed with the cantilever arm? I keep thinking about building my own setup, i'm guessing to get something I'm happy with it needs a Z axis and a THC?
Reply:I am working through my build an OMIC sensor and Z car stuff right now. This is nuts esp for a newbie like me. I have no idea what I am doing. Good luck with some of these companies instructions for the OMIC and DTHC. My head is spinning. I have some vids of my build on my YT site and actually some of it setting up the OMIC stuff. Youtube User name TJS Welding and Fabricationwww.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:
Originally Posted by Munkul
without criticising... why have you chosen not to go with a full gantry? and stayed with the cantilever arm? I keep thinking about building my own setup, i'm guessing to get something I'm happy with it needs a Z axis and a THC?
Reply:Great progress. Supporting the other side is a real good idea, or make a new rail tube now. My water table sheet warped so bad I had to make brackets on the bottom to pull the sheet down to the cross members. If I were to make another one I would not follow the PPLC plans I had where you make a picture frame and weld the flat sheet to the inside of the frame.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:
Originally Posted by TJS
Great progress. Supporting the other side is a real good idea, or make a new rail tube now. My water table sheet warped so bad I had to make brackets on the bottom to pull the sheet down to the cross members. If I were to make another one I would not follow the PPLC plans I had where you make a picture frame and weld the flat sheet to the inside of the frame.
Reply:If you make your water table permanent you limit the use of your table, I do many other things with my table, I remove the water table and replace it with a spoil board and do routing, use a drag knife for cutting sign vinyl (also sign vinyl for etching metal), and a diamond scribe for engraving.
this video is not me but fun.
diamond scribe drag knife
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Last edited by acourtjester; 02-06-2019 at 12:31 PM.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:
Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest
What made it warp?I did experience some warpage welding the angle brackets on and i was super nervous doing it. I took my time really letting it cool and everything turned out flat in the end. As far as supporting the gantry arm, i am thinking of making a bearing type bracket that will ride across a stainless bridge on the other side. Like an elevated roadway almost.
Reply:
Originally Posted by TJS
The water tray was not bent up in a break. It was just sheet welded to a picture frame of angle. I tigged the underside of it and moved around to cool other areas. Took me over 2 days and it still warped. My water table is removeable and I even welded lift rings to each corner.
Reply:BB,Ok so I made some test cuts this weekend on my table. The cut height is .060" and pierce height is .150"(14ga sheet). With the torch height control off when cutting a 24" straight line,any variation in the metal and or water table would cause my torch to rub against the sheet causing it to kick the switch on my magnetic breakaway. The torch did not breakaway but just tripped the E-stop switch which is a good thing. Then I was finally able to get the THC to work and it was so cool seeing the torch following the warped material and or ups and downs in it. I know you did not get any warpage like I did on your water tray but with a cut height of .060" there is not much for error to play with. Again, you really might want to consider some sort of torch height control set up. This is coming from a super newbie.T.J.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:
Originally Posted by TJS
BB,Ok so I made some test cuts this weekend on my table. The cut height is .060" and pierce height is .150"(14ga sheet). With the torch height control off when cutting a 24" straight line,any variation in the metal and or water table would cause my torch to rub against the sheet causing it to kick the switch on my magnetic breakaway. The torch did not breakaway but just tripped the E-stop switch which is a good thing. Then I was finally able to get the THC to work and it was so cool seeing the torch following the warped material and or ups and downs in it. I know you did not get any warpage like I did on your water tray but with a cut height of .060" there is not much for error to play with. Again, you really might want to consider some sort of torch height control set up. This is coming from a super newbie.T.J.
Reply:Cool. Can't wait to see the final results.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:Your post got me motivated to take a break from real work and get some of the table done today.Got the upper rail drilled and gantry arm mounted.With crude measuring using a block of 2" tube to the bottom of the water table, the gantry arm tracks within 1/16" from right to left. It touches the tube at the right side and at most 1/16" drop to the left. If I had to guess this is more the result of using a drill press and measuring by hand rather than the actual table itself. I was fairly spot on with the holes for the bolts but human error and whatnot always prevail.I can probably correct this by drilling the holes of the upper rail oversize giving me some play to match it to the water table but I am going to wait until it actually has slats and I can properly measure how it tracks rather than guestimate now. I hope to have the Y axis moving around tonight. The X axis will have to wait because I need wire and connectors to extend the wire on the motor.In the photos you can see the gantry arm does reach just over the edge of the front of the table itself where it should allow me to at a later date add a bridge/track for some kind of bearing mount to attach to the bottom of the gantry arm and give it support for the weight of a Z axis.
Last edited by BrooklynBravest; 02-11-2019 at 03:03 PM.www.FirehouseFabricators.comZachLincoln 210mpLincoln SW200Hypertherm Powermax 45xp2x4 CNC Plasma Table.
Reply:My Precision Plasma Rails are the old style V rail ones. I used my Bpt to drill and tap all the holes in the 2 x 2 x .250" wall tube that were holding this part down. It was indicated against the vice jaws less than a thou. Fast forward when bolting my rails to the drilled and tapped 2 x 2 square tube it; was way off for the 96" of movement. I made an indicator holder that mounted on the X gantry. It started off at over 30 thou off on each side. The rails actually had a wahoo in both of them. Can you say propeller. I had to mill some mounting holes egg shaped to get each rail within .003" in 96". Took quite a bit of time but now I know it is pretty straight. Looks like you will have to do kind of the same. I have an extra X axis gantry and you have inspired me to make a mobile one some day. LOL.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:
Originally Posted by TJS
My Precision Plasma Rails are the old style V rail ones. I used my Bpt to drill and tap all the holes in the 2 x 2 x .250" wall tube that were holding this part down. It was indicated against the vice jaws less than a thou. Fast forward when bolting my rails to the drilled and tapped 2 x 2 square tube it; was way off for the 96" of movement. I made an indicator holder that mounted on the X gantry. It started off at over 30 thou off on each side. The rails actually had a wahoo in both of them. Can you say propeller. I had to mill some mounting holes egg shaped to get each rail within .003" in 96". Took quite a bit of time but now I know it is pretty straight. Looks like you will have to do kind of the same. I have an extra X axis gantry and you have inspired me to make a mobile one some day. LOL.
Reply:I would think as Tom (acourtjester) pointed out, just try and put a simple bracket and a skateboard bearing/roller setup just to take the weight off. make it ride right on top of that 2 x 2 tube.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:With the Y arm being short like that is should work ok and adding a roller support under the outside end of the Y. The Y support roller would be for downward movement when the Y is out near the end of travel. This will surely be needed when you add more to the Z axis with a motor and sliding assembly. Looking at your original image of the table I would rotate the torch handle to parallel the Y axis toward the X slider and move its pivot to the center of the X side to lessen the influence of the cable sway.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT, |
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发表于 2021-11-4 15:51:32