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I'd appreciate any input, ideas, and warnings for this project.I want to mount some kind of hoist to the ceiling in my garage. The ceiling is sheet rocked, the ceiling joists run as shown with the green lines in the picture, and are 24" on center. Ideally I want to shoot for 300lb safe capacity - I don't work with thicker than 1/4" material mostly, the only time I can see going over a 150lb lift is if I have some piece of equipment to unload from the truck bed (pressure washer, tiller, etc) At first blush I was thinking of lag bolting a 48" long 2 x 4 along one of the joists, with a sturdy eye bolt secured in the middle to hang a small chain hoist from.That white cabinet/table is on wheels, so I can roll it under a suspended object and lower it down to it.I guess I'm wondering if others have done creative, cool, innovative hoist mounts in a similar situation. Is my initial thinking/plan sound? Thanks in advance for any and all input.
Reply:Carefully cut a hole in the roof and reserve that piece. Put your cross beams on top of the joists. You can even build it up even taller. Then put your eye bolt in there. The whole thing is recessed so you get extra height. The come along of pulley system it going to take up a good 1 to 2 feet of height. Trim out the hole you cut with molding then put the cut piece back in it.It just looks like an access hole and not an eye sore. Sent from my SM-G930V using TapatalkLast edited by psacustomcreations; 06-03-2020 at 04:06 PM.Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:300 lbs aint much... You can buy a small electric hoist for cheap. I hate to suggest HF but they do sell a pretty good E-hoist.... I have their biggest one/for years now and it works great. yanking a chain hoist gets old fast...... trust me.Miller 211Hypertherm PM 451961 Lincoln Idealarc 250HTP 221 True Wisdom only comes from Pain.
Reply:I would go in the direction of the light and cover 3 beams ( bolt into all 3 beams) put a pulley in the center and run the cable to the wall and down to the hoist mounted on the wall. this will give you more height and have an up/down switch at the hoist.DIY CNC Plasma table USB BOB Price THCHypertherm 65Everlast PowerTig 255 EXTMiler 180 Mig13" metal latheMill/ DrillECT, ECT,
Reply:If your 'roof joists' are trusses then the lower members will most likely be 2x4's, I would be very cautions about lagging into them! like others have said it's much better to go overtop of them for reinforcing... I like the idea of making a hole/trough... this would give you the option of a traveling lift system.Another thing you can do with the wall mounted lift setup is have a separate winch to 'move' the lift pulley giving you the ability to move the lift while keeping maximum lift height with the wall setup.
Reply:A couple of things should be noted. Going over the top of trusses is good, however you should at least be aware. The ceiling is likely drywalled because it is a 1 hour firewall. If you cut a hole in it and then trim it off to hold it and you have a fire, you will likely have a problem when the insurance company realizes what you did. Ok, the second thing, I see popcorn ceiling up in your garage, if that's from the later 70's or earlier its likely asbestos based. Now that I played Mr. safety, the rest is on you. Good luck with your project, I always wanted an overhead trolley!
Reply:Put your cross beams on top of the joists
Reply:If you have attic access I would first take a look at the design and see if there is a spot more solid than the rest because they come together there or maybe two are doubled. If all just identical long spans of 2X4 at the bottom. Maybe go up and deck screw a 2X6 or 2X8 on top that has another one screwed on it standing vertical kinda like 1/2 a I beam and span as many as you can and attach your anchor to the boards. Then alongside the board run another board or other chain or rod support up to the top of the trusses so you not all pulling on the bottom boards only.Last edited by danielplace; 06-04-2020 at 09:16 AM.
Reply:I have to agree,,, 300lbs is Nothing really and you're over doing it (think of a refrigerator sitting above that spot. How concerned would you be about it's support?
)I had a 12' scrap of 3" I-beam and need to pick-up and stack rows of these Fireworks Pods I make (we shoot professional shows and these are groups of tubes) that weigh @200lbs.. I took a HF "hoist" (800lb cap. for @$80) and put some rollers on it. I attached the beam to the joists (really more collar ties spaced 4' apart) with angle iron on the top, but you could just use a plate and lag thru the sheetrock (maintaining the Fire Code) into your joists. WAY MORE useful for unloading a truck
Reply:I have a bit more to lift...same principle though.
Reply:You need to know what your attaching to, as others have mentioned, I'd be leary putting lags into engineered trusses. I have a few picking points lagged into my joists, they are 4x16 old growth, one is used for picking the arbor press and tailstock off my LeBlond lathe, the other is used for pulling the spindle drive and gearbox on my VMC. I have a one more style and I'll snap a photo later today.
Reply:I did just what you are describing, but my garage is under the house, so I was screwing into 2x12 floor joists. I sunk an eye hook into a 2x4 and used 4 inch screws to attach the 2x4 into 3 joists. Lifts a 400 lb welder no sweat, but just for safety sake I stay clear of what I am lifting.Miller Multimatic 255
Reply:
Originally Posted by camfab
A couple of things should be noted. Going over the top of trusses is good, however you should at least be aware. The ceiling is likely drywalled because it is a 1 hour firewall. If you cut a hole in it and then trim it off to hold it and you have a fire, you will likely have a problem when the insurance company realizes what you did. Ok, the second thing, I see popcorn ceiling up in your garage, if that's from the later 70's or earlier its likely asbestos based. Now that I played Mr. safety, the rest is on you. Good luck with your project, I always wanted an overhead trolley!
Reply:Wow - many thanks to all of you for great ideas and warnings.1] House built in 1979 - so it's post-asbestos popcorn ceiling dangers (yay).2] I'm definitely going with some sort of trolley system - with what I envision this taking to install right - might as well enjoy a hoist I can position in multiple locations.Here are some pictures of the roof line, attic space, and corresponding area of the garage:
Man, it's going to be a tight squeeze to get to the area for the hoist track. The first excursion over there will be to poke a couple probes through the sheet rock to get better monuments as to how/where the wood lies in relation to where I want the track to go. At first blush it looks like the track will be close to where the shorter East/West truss bottoms join into the long North/South truss bottom.I have a lead on a 10' length of 12ga Superstrut/Unistrut C-Channel - this video is a quick overview of the trolley system available and I think it's right up my alley:If I have the option of tying into (8) of the East/West trusses close to where they meet the long N/S truss - that would seem to be the best/strongest option?Limited to 5 pics per post - I'll start a new one with some component ideas.
Reply:Pressure treated 2X8 laid over top of at least as many as that is long plus one. You can predrill it for the all thread rod you use to hang it. I think you would want a nut and fender washer under and over the 2X8 so track can not lift and/or sway side to side. Maybe one on edge also and just use long deck screws through the 2X8 up into it along it's whole length. A deck screw in predrilled holes at every truss fastening it down will also make it all the more solid.Then maybe at each end and the center tie in to a upper part of the truss just so it doesn't buckle the ceiling at all with a heavy load.Just looked again but aren't the trusses going the same way as the track. Oops that changes the plan. Think your first post or I pictured them the other way I think. Going with the trusses is a different deal altogether. Lol.If that is the case I guess you will need separate pieces to put up for each all thread to hang from.Last edited by danielplace; 06-04-2020 at 02:56 PM.
Reply:continued...The UniStrut system uses a 1-5/8" C-channel that is suspended by larger "C" shaped steel brackets:
Plan: 10' of track, (4) of the hangers, (1) 4-wheel trolley, (6) Lag Bolts(Plain lag bolt at each end [to also act as a stop] into the 2x4's / (4) of the hangers lag bolted to the 2x4's)Estimate: Track = $29 / Hangers = $16/ea x 4 = $64 / Trolley = $30 / Total=$123.00 +/- (lag bolts, washers, etc)Minimum of 1.8 Safety Factor at 250lbs.I think the biggest question I still have for the group is which 2x4's to bolt into? All along a single big one, or into 7 separate 2x4's that closely terminate into the long N/S truss bottom.
Reply:I was going to suggest unistrut. Because your open up above I'd simply lay a 4x4 across the trusses and drop some all-thread through the ceiling and tighten up the unistrut. If I recall they have a design guide with spacing and such. Here are a few more pictures of my various hoists. The first photo shows the hanger I used to lower the compressors into the basement. The original plan was to put a beam under two hangers but I got lazy and just installed the one. I removed a few treads from the basement stairs and lowered the compressors down. The shop is so much more pleasant.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Pressure treated 2X8 laid over top of at least as many as that is long plus one. You can predrill it for the all thread rod you use to hang it. I think you would want a nut and fender washer under and over the 2X8 so track can not lift and/or sway side to side. Maybe one on edge also and just use long deck screws through the 2X8 up into it along it's whole length. A deck screw in predrilled holes at every truss fastening it down will also make it all the more solid.Then maybe at each end and the center tie in to a upper part of the truss just so it doesn't buckle the ceiling at all with a heavy load.Just looked again but aren't the trusses going the same way as the track. Oops that changes the plan. Think your first post or I pictured them the other way I think. Going with the trusses is a different deal altogether. Lol.If that is the case I guess you will need separate pieces to put up for each all thread to hang from.
Reply:
Originally Posted by ronsii
I wouldn't recommend using pressure treated lumber, it is usually a substandard grade of lumber they use... plus the pressure treated likes to eat steel even the new stuff that's not suppose to.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
I was thinking for strength but maybe the yellow pine as it is a pretty strong grade too. Just not that soft white stuff they have. Avoids a lot of handling of that nasty pressure treat chemical too.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Shootr
I think the biggest question I still have for the group is which 2x4's to bolt into? All along a single big one, or into 7 separate 2x4's that closely terminate into the long N/S truss bottom.
Reply:Do you know your snow load/live load.300 pounds should ok.If your garage is 20ft span and the rafters are 2ft and snow load of 20 total max. weight is 800 pounds now for center load need cut in 1/2 or max is 400 lb.But typically you use more than one rafter and that is your safety factor . This just only a ruff estement.Dave
Originally Posted by Shootr
I'd appreciate any input, ideas, and warnings for this project.I want to mount some kind of hoist to the ceiling in my garage. The ceiling is sheet rocked, the ceiling joists run as shown with the green lines in the picture, and are 24" on center. Ideally I want to shoot for 300lb safe capacity - I don't work with thicker than 1/4" material mostly, the only time I can see going over a 150lb lift is if I have some piece of equipment to unload from the truck bed (pressure washer, tiller, etc) At first blush I was thinking of lag bolting a 48" long 2 x 4 along one of the joists, with a sturdy eye bolt secured in the middle to hang a small chain hoist from.That white cabinet/table is on wheels, so I can roll it under a suspended object and lower it down to it.I guess I'm wondering if others have done creative, cool, innovative hoist mounts in a similar situation. Is my initial thinking/plan sound? Thanks in advance for any and all input.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
Didn't realize how light duty the track and all is. I would use separate cross piece for each hanger but have the all thread come out close to the truss not the center of the cross boards.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Louie1961
I did just what you are describing, but my garage is under the house, so I was screwing into 2x12 floor joists. I sunk an eye hook into a 2x4 and used 4 inch screws to attach the 2x4 into 3 joists. Lifts a 400 lb welder no sweat, but just for safety sake I stay clear of what I am lifting.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Shootr
I've been researching the strength of the various hanging methods and balancing that against practicality and do-ability...I'm going with the lag bolt method straight into the 2x4 trusses with this reasoning: *The 1/4" thick channel hanger brackets are rated at 1200lbs each. There will be 6 of those every 2' holding a 10' long channel: *A 1/4" x 4" lag bolt has a pullout rating of 255lbs/inch of thread (3" x 255 = 765lbs for each bolt). There will be (4) of those and (1) 3/8" lag bolt at each end (305lbs/inch pullout rating). So with a bolt every 24" (6 total) in the channel, the safety factor is 7 or 8 conservatively for a 300lb load. Also, the wood is "Arizona air-dried" for 41 years, it is done moving, shrinking, etc. *The channel is 12ga steel and stout as well, no worries there. A single 4-wheel trolley has a working rating of 600lbs.Besides it being summer in Phoenix and the attic is as miserable as it gets, access is just too tight for me to get around up there. Also, any lumber would have to be in pieces - I took an 8' 1x2 and couldn't get it over to the mounting area - I was always hitting the ceiling, the floor or another 2x4 in the trusses. Patience goes out the window pretty fast when I'm overheating.Cut yourself a strip of 3/4" plywood 8-12" wide by 6-8'. Use 3/8" carriage bolts to mount track to plywood. Set the assembly up to ceiling and run 4 construction screws, 2.5-3" long into each truss intersection. It won't be as strong as mounting something above the truss but will be considerably stronger than simply putting a 1/4" lag into the bottom of the truss.
Reply:I can't have any bolt or screw heads down in the c-channel or the trolley won't get past it. I have to use the channel hanger brackets.I'll know for sure when I mark where all the joists are on the ceiling, but I believe the channel will tie into the shorter East/West joists close to where they tie into the first long N/S joist.
Again, I'm designing for the rare instances that may approach 300lbs - but 99% of any lift will 100lbs or so. (3000w generator, small I-beam art project, etc)
Reply:
Originally Posted by Shootr
I can't have any bolt or screw heads down in the c-channel or the trolley won't get past it. I have to use the channel hanger brackets.I'll know for sure when I mark where all the joists are on the ceiling, but I believe the channel will tie into the shorter East/West joists close to where they tie into the first long N/S joist.
Again, I'm designing for the rare instances that may approach 300lbs - but 99% of any lift will 100lbs or so. (3000w generator, small I-beam art project, etc)
Reply:Personally I'd avoid lag bolts. Yes, I'm using lags but they are a compromise... my attic is less than 12 inches where the yellow crane and hook are located. The lags are 5/8 or 3/4, I don't recall, and 8 inches long, going into douglas fir. The holes are pre-drill as specified and run in with a pneumatic impact gun. I don't recall what the pull out was but I was comfortable with it. I can lift a full drum of coolant which I'm sure exceeds my marked limit. I guarantee you no engineer or safety inspector would be happy seeing a crane lag bolted to the ceiling. I figure if I ever bring on employees I'll need to through bolt it and have it inspected.I don't know what grade all-thread Unistrut recommends. I'm sure plenty of electricians use the hardware store variety and I've seen some scary big stuff hanging from 3/8 threaded rod. The engineer specifies it and the electrician installs it. Personally I'd use B7 threaded rod but it is likely overkill. You may be able to get bolts long enough especially if you use unistrut in the attic also.I'd also put the track flush with the ceiling... you can never have enough head room.Last edited by forhire; 06-04-2020 at 11:24 PM.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
That would be so much better than under a long one. If you were in the ends of the ones T'ing into the other that would be pretty solid for what you are doing for sure. Multiple lags in each truss 24" apart would be great for putting the Unistrut up and hanging from it as I guess you wouldn't want to buy and install those main track hangers at every single truss.How many main hangers are there total ?I just looked and saw 4 total in 10 feet. Man I think maybe you could just put them 4 right in the trusses with the lag studs and skip that strut up top on the drywall. I don't think you need it. I mean it is only giving you like one more lag. Skip the upper one. Would look nice and clean with all thread straight to the all thread coupling against a fender washer right on the ceiling.Maybe don't even use any all thread just use bolts. Bolt the hangers right straight into the coupling nuts. It would look real good.
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Originally Posted by Shootr
Better pic of the install location. Other constraints I failed to mention includes the garage door and track. I only have 7" from the ceiling to clear the door when it's opened. The track is actually 10' long overall, so 4 of the hangers will be where your drawing shows them, and the other two will be right on the ends. The brackets will be lag bolted up tight against the ceiling drywall, and the c-channel clamped into them - so the bottom of the channel should only be 3-3/4" from the ceiling.Should have all the parts and pieces by tomorrow - so hopefully this weekend it'll get done.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
I had thought you mentioned Unistrut going against the drywall so I thought you were putting up uni strut to hang from. I guess you just meant the Unistrut track. Lag bolts right in the brackets and against the drywall sounds good but you won't be able to go too tight or bracket will ruin drywall or punch though. Need some 4" fender washers for between bracket and drywall. Lol. Now to hit center of every one. They made the holes in brackets a bit large. That must be for misalignment of the lags. Lol.
Reply:
Originally Posted by danielplace
They made the holes in brackets a bit large. That must be for misalignment of the lags. Lol.
Reply:Well this was worth the price of admission!
Reply:Looks good. What are your thoughts on mounting to the circular plate?Millermatic 252 MIGMiller Dynasty 200DX TIGMiller Spectrum 625 PlasmaAltas 12x36 Metal LatheBridgeport Milling Machinewww.psacustomcreations.com
Reply:Looks good. The unistrut made for a quick solution. The Nautilus is coming along nicely.
Reply:Coming at this late but Unistrut makes track that is like 2-5/8" high , Its hard to find but the next time I need to put up a hoist I'am going to go with that. I used the 1-5/8X1-5/8 and welded 3X3X1/4 angle on top of it to but up along side the rafters in my shop space, drilled 1/2 holes though the steel and the wood of each rafter and put 1/2-13 bolts though it all.works great when I need to pull the motor on a Cub Cadet, or pick up the front end of one.Joe
Reply:Still one of the handier additions to the garage! Makes loading up for a camp trip much easier on the back.
Yeswelder MIG-205DS(3) Angle Grinders at the ReadyJust a hobbyist trying to improve
Reply:
Originally Posted by steelsmith101
Coming at this late but Unistrut makes track that is like 2-5/8" high , Its hard to find but the next time I need to put up a hoist I'am going to go with that. I used the 1-5/8X1-5/8 and welded 3X3X1/4 angle on top of it to but up along side the rafters in my shop space, drilled 1/2 holes though the steel and the wood of each rafter and put 1/2-13 bolts though it all.works great when I need to pull the motor on a Cub Cadet, or pick up the front end of one.Joe
Reply:
Originally Posted by Shootr
Still one of the handier additions to the garage! Makes loading up for a camp trip much easier on the back.
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Originally Posted by FlyFishn
Mechanical advantage and hoisting are wonderful things. With creativity and a winch you can move the earth.
Reply:Remember kids, work smarter no harder...
No problemo... Yeswelder MIG-205DS(3) Angle Grinders at the ReadyJust a hobbyist trying to improve
Reply:I'm all for working smarter.... but hydraulics makes things so much faster
Turn this:
Into this:
With this:
Reply:
Originally Posted by Shootr
Remember kids, work smarter no harder...
No problemo...
Reply:
Originally Posted by ronsii
I'm all for working smarter.... but hydraulics makes things so much faster
Turn this:
Into this:
With this:
Reply:
Originally Posted by Lis2323
Did the scissor man lift already fall off the forks ???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:
Originally Posted by 12V71
Last time I saw a sheave like that was on a 400HP electric motor driving a gyratory rock crusher.
Reply:Nice job! I looked at the unistrut trolley system too. My ceiling is LPIs spaced at 16" but if I recall my builder buddy told me that while a LPI has tremendous load bearing capabilities from the top I should not put much load on the bottom except for the ceiling material. This is kind of obvious when you look at how they are put together. I did fasten 2x8s across 6 of them with hooks to lift my camper shell using ratcheting load straps but the shell is pretty light. I may just build something supported from the floor. Incidentally, where I live at least (Pima County, AZ) there is no longer an added fire rating required for residential attached garages, just the normal ratings required in the rest of the house. According to NFPA garage fires are no longer common due to fuel injected vehicles with sealed fuel systems.Miller Challenger 172Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC 225/150Miller Maxstar 150 STLVictor 100CVictor JourneymanOxweld OAHarris O/ASmith O/A little torchNo, that's not my car.
Reply:tag unistrut trolley"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!
" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man" |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:17:41