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What is the differance in these two machines?
Reply:Probably only the colour of the faceplate after many years of fading in sunlightGordie -- "I believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Reply:Oh also a 200f Ive noticed it has a black face. Ive heard everyone talk about the redface, and how good it is. I just havent seen that many red-blue face machines, and Ive seen several of the 200f with a black face but you dont hear folks talking them up like the red face. Guys Im in the market for a machine, Im not in a hurry to buy one so Im using this time to do my research. I dont want to buy one then find out one of the others is better. Ive looked back through about 6-7 pages and seen people asking about problems with their machine, or a rebuild question, but I havent seen anyone talking about the pros and cons of each. I may have not went back far enough to find the info Im looking for, so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for yalls time.
Reply:Basically if it is a round barrel it has copper in the generator. This will make it an older redface machine. I believe these were made from 62 or 63 up until the early 70's.Black face machines were made from mid 72 or 73 on up until the 200G was introduced I believe. These machines have an octagon generator that has aluminum coated windings. The shunt coils are notorious for going out in theses machines. When this happens you only get a little spark when you weld. There is no telling how many have been replaced. The shunt coils cost about $450, plus installation, the last time I checked. You have to pull the barrel to press them out.There are also older machines such as the short hood machines that will give you great reliability if they have a few things done to upgrade them. There are literally thousands of Lincoln's out that that are 30,40 years old and more used every day.Last edited by robphillips00; 02-03-2012 at 08:11 AM.Miller Pro 30068 SA 20064 SAF 300305 G Lincoln gasserMiller 210
Reply:
Originally Posted by robphillips00
Basically if it is a round barrel it has copper in the generator. This will make it an older redface machine. I believe these were made from 62 or 63 up until the early 70's.Black face machines were made from mid 72 or 73 on up until the 200G was introduced I believe. These machines have an octagon generator that has aluminum coated windings. The shunt coils are notorious for going out in theses machines. When this happens you only get a little spark when you weld. There is no telling how many have been replaced. The shunt coils cost about $450, plus installation, the last time I checked. You have to pull the barrel to press them out.There are also older machines such as the short hood machines that will give you great reliability if they have a few things done to upgrade them. There are literally thousands of Lincoln's out that that are 30,40 years old and more used every day.
Reply:My redface (code 4150) is an original blue tint redface1960 Redface SA-200 F 1621973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop2013 Miller Trailblazer 2752013 GMC 3500 welding car
Reply:Good Morning allOne of my goals this winter is to post a list showing the changes that occurred by year, code, serial number. I have been compiling this list from available sources and with the help of Nitesky and Kay S. But this winter has been mild enough that I have not been stuck inside long enough to start.This is a very in general short list. Some years only had a couple of codes that overlapped several years. Others had multiple codes in one year. Some codes are as simple a change as changing from a square head bolt to a hex head bolt. Others have multiple significant changes.Red Face / Blue tintF162 , 2 piece (split) control panel1959 - 1962Codes 4149,4150,4744,4745,4800,4815,4816Red Face F162 , 2 piece (split) control panel1963 - 1967Codes 4843 - 5841Black Face Change to F163 and 1 piece (solid) control panel.1967 - 1972Codes 5957 - 7242Green lite1973 - -------
Reply:I have a 1972 blackface. Weld terminals on the front panel, low mount starter, octagon barrel, generator (no altenator). It never had a green light. Been told it was a transition machine from the redfaces to the blackfaces.
Reply:Lincweld1972 was a major transition year.Still had the "Black Face" name plateThe book lists 11 code numbers for 1972.changed to the Octagon barrel, Aluminium shunt field coils, changed series field coils and interpole field coils, 12v neg. ground altenator....etc.73 the face plate changed to the "Green Light" face plate. electronic idle control .......
Reply:
Originally Posted by lincweld
I have a 1972 blackface. Weld terminals on the front panel, low mount starter, octagon barrel, generator (no altenator). It never had a green light. Been told it was a transition machine from the redfaces to the blackfaces.
Reply:My '61 code #4150 is a red/blue face. Lincoln claims they have no record of producing them, which is odd. I've heard that the only machines featuring the red/blue tint plates were code # 4150 and had the f-162 continental.Two stories I've heard about them. One is that they were a transition from the older black face to the red face machines. The second is that they were special ordered by a large pipeline company that wanted their machines to stand out.Either way they are essentially an early red face.Miller Dialarc 250'61 Lincoln SA 200 Red/Blue FaceHobart Handler 175Smith O/AIf you cant dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with B.S.!
Reply:Mine is Serial # A716412 Code # 7214 and it's listed as a 1973. Black Face, NO green light, R-57 idler with an alternator.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money. -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:GizzardgutzThanks for getting me to check the notes. The "Blackface" did carry into 73. with codes 7178, 7214 and 7242.The "Greenlight" started with code 7243
Reply:Straighten me out on this. A blackface machine with a round barrel generator is essentially the same as a redface. Yes/no?47 shorty48 shorty55 shorty70 redface
Reply:Yes..........Dont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!
CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST
3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:
Originally Posted by andex
Lincweld1972 was a major transition year.Still had the "Black Face" name plateThe book lists 11 code numbers for 1972.changed to the Octagon barrel, Aluminium shunt field coils, changed series field coils and interpole field coils, 12v neg. ground altenator....etc.73 the face plate changed to the "Green Light" face plate. electronic idle control .......
Reply:
Originally Posted by lincweld
Do you think this code or series of machines came just after the blackface round barrel machines ? Thanks for any help!
Reply:
Originally Posted by daCat
Straighten me out on this. A blackface machine with a round barrel generator is essentially the same as a redface. Yes/no?
Reply:I know this is an old thread, but I would like to add that I own both machines and the Red/Blue face machine runs at a lower rpm. 1450rpm for the red/blue face and 1550 for my 1969 Red face IIRC.Beck's Welding and Fabrication, Inc.-Misc. Metals Fabrication & Installation-
Reply:You have to read the panel closely, it states 1550 with no load and 1450 under load. I was told the red-blue machines have a balanced armature.1960 Redface SA-200 F 1621973 Black face SA-200 F 163 with 5" chop2013 Miller Trailblazer 2752013 GMC 3500 welding car
Reply:I recently picked up a Black Face, round barrell , low starter with R57 idler, believe it to be 1970 and from memory the code is 6633 on the face plate and number stamped on the barrell matches. Lead terminals are on the front."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251 Syncrowave 300 30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200 1 short hood SA250 SAM 400
Reply:
Originally Posted by CodyJo
What is the differance in these two machines?
Reply:Nope that's a myth red and blue face machines are just as common as a redface only the red and blue was built early 60's and the military used Hobart machines. A red/blue is the same except for exciter armature and 1450rpm. As the 1970 model is 1550 high idle.Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by 78fordf150ranger; 12-14-2015 at 03:46 PM.
Reply:On a different note: are you ever going to get your shorty diesel conversion done? We are all waiting. And don't forget the pictures. Thanks.
Reply:Ya one of these days been really busy with work and life , have the next couple of months off so hopefully.I have two shorthoods.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by 78fordf150ranger; 12-14-2015 at 11:38 PM.Id like to find a short hood so I could compare the differences to my red face machines. My '63 burns 6010s as good as 7018s on my '80 green light machine. So smooth and easy.SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only2004 Ranger 10,000Lincoln Pro Mig 135Miller Load BankHobart GPB 258 PipelinerHobart GPB 261 MainlinerHobart Airforce 250Everlast PA 200st
Reply:Ocvs are a big thing with the comparison, I like a short cause you run it in 3rd for everything from 3/32-3/16 7018Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:wow got suck up vortex/black hole again,even Andex responded
Reply:Zombie thread lolzAWS CWI xxxx21711968 SA200
Originally Posted by WelderMike I hate being bipolar, It's awesome.
Reply:Hi. Could anyone tell me anything about a 1952 shorthand with a number of 2365 on it ? I am trying to figure out if it a red face or not. I have to admit, I'm confused on the topic and have heard from some old timers that all of the SA-200's (Red face & Black face) had all copper windings in the generators and the black face's had aluminum or copper coated aluminum in the armatures. This was supposed to be the only difference from what I have been able to gather to this point anyway.If anyone can help that would be great as this seems to be very confusing reading through many, many different comments and opinions or many different folks here.Thanks for any help trying to understand this. I just don't want to waste money on a project I would like to take on.Macsr
Reply:You should have started a new thread. This one is 5 years old. It's short hood not shorthand. Red faces were built in the 60's however the first long hoods in 1958/59 were basically the same but had a black faceplate. I think early 70's machines before the octagon barrel (around 1973) went to black face plates too but the same as a red face. Red/blue face machines were apparently made for the military and had everything balanced. Any SA200 with a round barrel is the most desirable as they have all copper windings and a 1952 short hood would qualify. Might require a lot of work though. Red face machines have 5 amperages ranges and the best overall arc characteristics for 6010 or 7018. Short hoods are better for 6010 and not as nice for 7018.Last edited by Welder Dave; 11-28-2020 at 06:50 PM.
Reply:Welder Dave,Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions !And, thank you for the great information. I apologize for the "typos" as I was trying to write on my small screen cell phone but yes, I did mean to type "short hood". Sorry. I'm new to this site and didn't know how to start a "new thread", sorry again. I'll have more questions on this unit probably. But can you tell me what the # 2365 that I was given off of the unit may mean and,....is this a all copper wound generator and armature ? (It is a round barrel) And, if a unit has a black face plate on it, does it absolutely mean it is cannot be a "Red Face" all copper wound unit ? Or are just all "Red face plate" units the Copper wound units ?I was also told by the current owner that is stated life as a short hood and the prior owner converted it to a " long style " unit. I am going to look at it in person this week. Any suggestions on where to look for certain ID numbers on the engine & generator etc that can help further ID it would be greatly appreciated Sir.Thank you in advance for any further assistance you may be able to provide Sir.Mike
Reply:Sounds like that machine is a mixed bag if the face plate has the code 2365, in a long hood frame, because I have a 1955 short hood with the code 2365 on it. Look on the generator housing for numbers stamped on the starter side of the machine, probably painted over a little, that will tell which generator it is. If you find four numbers, that would be a code number. If you find the letter A-xxxxxx, that will be the serial number that was stamped on most short hoods.I keep hearing the same old rumor about Red/Blue face machines being made for the military and how they where a balanced machine? Though the Lincoln service manual states as them being the same as any other Redface according to the wiring diagram specs, and load testing?SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only2004 Ranger 10,000Lincoln Pro Mig 135Miller Load BankHobart GPB 258 PipelinerHobart GPB 261 MainlinerHobart Airforce 250Everlast PA 200st
Reply:Maintainence and everything else likely wouldn't change because it was balanced. I saw a thread awhile ago by someone who sounded pretty knowledgeable and the red/blue face for the military is the most logical. If they were made for a large contractor someone would know which contractor.
Reply:I'm not sure if the Red/Blue face machines have a flex plate on the main armature or not, but my 63 Redface has the armature bolted straight to the crankshaft and it very balanced and smooth. I'm keeping my eye out for one of those Red/Blue face machines, I really want see what there all about.SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only2004 Ranger 10,000Lincoln Pro Mig 135Miller Load BankHobart GPB 258 PipelinerHobart GPB 261 MainlinerHobart Airforce 250Everlast PA 200st
Reply:isn't there anyone that worked at Lincoln on here during those years to clear the red/blue face debate up ? i would think that if they were made for the military those machines would have been painted olive drab, just about everything i owned that was military from those years,(air compressor, generator, tool boxes) were painted olive drab
Reply:There was a guy at Lincoln that knew what every code meant but he's long retired and don't think he's with us anymore. Changing a face plate isn't a big deal. Changing paint colors might be. Lincoln is all about branding. I think Red-D-Arc is the only company that Lincoln has made welders for but they've bought thousands and thousands of welders from Lincoln over the years. Red-D-Arc was originally a Lincoln dealer. Back in the early 80's I was looking at SA200's. They had a list with pretty much every year machine made from the mid 60's up to current machines. The list was probably 5 pages or more long. Red-D-Arc has got a lot bigger since then too.
Reply:
Originally Posted by BYW200
I'm not sure if the Red/Blue face machines have a flex plate on the main armature or not, but my 63 Redface has the armature bolted straight to the crankshaft and it very balanced and smooth. I'm keeping my eye out for one of those Red/Blue face machines, I really want see what there all about.
Reply:
Originally Posted by Macsr
Hi. Could anyone tell me anything about a 1952 shorthand with a number of 2365 on it ? I am trying to figure out if it a red face or not. I have to admit, I'm confused on the topic and have heard from some old timers that all of the SA-200's (Red face & Black face) had all copper windings in the generators and the black face's had aluminum or copper coated aluminum in the armatures. This was supposed to be the only difference from what I have been able to gather to this point anyway.If anyone can help that would be great as this seems to be very confusing reading through many, many different comments and opinions or many different folks here.Thanks for any help trying to understand this. I just don't want to waste money on a project I would like to take on.Macsr
Reply:i bought a red face / blue dial 4816 code , sa200 for $300, it wasnt running when i got it , has a F162 motor, but the barrel 's number code number is 5604, must have been swapped out at some point in time
Reply:Thanks R&I for the clarification. Is your machine the code 4150? All the later SA machines I've split had the flex plate. I've always wondered why the 63' Armature I have, was bolted straight to the crank.Last edited by BYW200; 03-06-2021 at 03:33 AM.SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969 1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only2004 Ranger 10,000Lincoln Pro Mig 135Miller Load BankHobart GPB 258 PipelinerHobart GPB 261 MainlinerHobart Airforce 250Everlast PA 200st
Reply:BYW200..Yes mine is code 4150....on the plate and stamped on the barrel... On the road welding and had a hell of a time getting on with my Nextbook...I have a love\hate relationship with computers and I don't know (or want to know) how to do this crap on my phone.... I'm an old Norwegian who thinks a phone is for talking
Reply:
Originally Posted by gmcdeadhead
isn't there anyone that worked at Lincoln on here during those years to clear the red/blue face debate up ? i would think that if they were made for the military those machines would have been painted olive drab, just about everything i owned that was military from those years,(air compressor, generator, tool boxes) were painted olive drab
Reply:Lincoln is all about efficiency. It might be Lincoln grey and that's it. If used on ships, ships are grey. |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:17:03