Quest for 3 phase power!!! New Zealand edition.

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This will not exactly be a thread of woes, but more of a thread of taking longer then planned. But its happening. I notice over there in the USA you guys have a little war with your power companies regarding getting 3 phase power in your shops. Also for some of you it costs tens of thousands of dollar to get it. I also notice that your power supply voltages vary a great deal that all in all it is damn confusing. Down here in kiwi land all our power poles have 3 phase lines along the top row. Single phase supply gets tapped off of the poles and distributed to each house. Single phase supply is 230-240volts at 50hz and 3 phase supply is 400-415volts 50hz. Single phase is commonly referred to as 230volt and 3 phase 415volt. Most household single phase wall sockets are a 230volt 10 amp socket. For more higher rated single phase devices you can get a 15 amp socket. 3 phase sockets can be a bit amp specific, so you would obviously buy whats right for your equipment/wiring. I had a new garage built a couple of years ago and have been on a quest to have 3 phase installed since that point. I got lucky as there is a power pole right outside my house but what was even more lucky is that right outside my gate is a 3 phase distribution box that was plonked there when the people next door built a new house which was so that they could tap the single phase off of it. There is however a massive 3 phase cable going from the pole to that box which I got the great plan of connecting to. So the journey began with a trip to company that looks after all the lines and maintains all the power supply in my area. I told them my grand plan and they were all for it however did inform me it would be at a cost of almost a couple of thousand dollars to hook up to that box. We (myself and the lines contractor) tried for a 415v 100amp supply but unfortunately we could only get a 60amp supply due to power restrictions in my area (long story short the power company have maxed out the local transformers which is a bit dumb as both transformers near me have been often taken out by trucks). They put the required 60amp fuses into the little distribution box and I proceeded to dig a trench through my front yard to hook up to it. Which my awesome electrician nicely did for me. So I am currently only running single phase but have the 3 phase cabling thats required going from the street to my house meter box. After that I had some financial delays but am back into it. Now is the journey to go from my house meter box to my garage and have a 3 phase meter installed and the extra phases connected at the street. The first half of the journey all I did was the leg work for getting permission and digging the trench. But for the second half I am doing as much as possible myself so that my electrician can do what he is required, as here in New Zealand even though I am not an electrician I can run cable and do a lot of the grunt work but any connections to the meter box and main power supply have to be done by an electrician and anything I do will have to be up to code and inspected. Things I have learnt so far, 3 phase is expensive but worth it in the long run as most industrial stuff down here in 3 phase and equivelant single phase stuff is crazy expensive. Also no matter how worth it you think it is, trench digging is not fun at all. Also the local council really know bugga all regarding whats under the ground as I found a bunch of old pipework under the ground that they did not even know about.




Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply: tried for a 415v 100amp supply but unfortunately we could only get a 60amp supply due to power restrictions in my area
Reply:Yeah I am sure it will be plenty. I am just planning for the day that my Syncrowave 351 comes home from work. It sounds crazy but if you read the manual for a 351 and read the recommended electrical connection for a 351 running on 415v 50hz you practically need a 60amp breaker just for that haha. I'll be a one man band when my home shop is properly setup and running so it will be all good as I will only ever be running one machine at a time.Even though Syncrowaves are single phase in the states, we run them on three phase circuits down here to get the voltage.Last edited by William Payne; 08-20-2016 at 03:19 PM.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:at least you will make the electrical company happy,
Reply:

Originally Posted by Farmerboy

at least you will make the electrical company happy,
Reply:Another addition to the "how to completely go overboard and wire your shed like an industrial factory" story. I have sorted out 30 metres on cat 6 gel filled underground rated Ethernet cable for my garage. As well as an outdoor rated ip67 little plastic box to mount to the wall of my house outside. I'll run the cable from the garage to the house then mount a splice junction deal in the box on the house and later will run cable from the house to that box and splice it in. Then on each end will have a wall mounted data outlet.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:60 Amps sounds like a lot. But Syncrowave is a transformer single phase machine right? That's why you need so many amps.60 Amps on single phase is about 30 Amps on three-phase.A modern inverter based 350Amps AC/DC TIG only needs 20 Amp fuses on 3-phase 400V.
Reply:

Originally Posted by Pete.S.

60 Amps sounds like a lot. But Syncrowave is a transformer single phase machine right? That's why you need so many amps.60 Amps on single phase is about 30 Amps on three-phase.A modern inverter based 350Amps AC/DC TIG only needs 20 Amp fuses on 3-phase 400V.
Reply:

Originally Posted by William Payne

Yip that's right. The 351 is still single phase even here in NZ on 3 phase. The plug lead still only has 3 wires including the earth. What they do here is they wire it using 3 phase plugs and outlets to get the voltage. I'm no expert or electrician but I am guessing they use 2 of the 3 phases to get the 400v like you guys do to get 220 over there.
Reply:I want to line the garage all the way up, the top beam is a different size to the others so had to improvise. I need to get at least one sheet up to mount the electrical panel to. The lining I am using is stuff called triboard.

Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Quest continued today with running cable. From the street to the house is whats known locally as 35mm 3 core neutral screen made by General Cable. In easier terms its an underground rated 3 core copper cable used for 3 phase installations. That was installed about a year ago. From the house to the garage is 25mm 3 core neutral screen made by Olex cable. The reason for using the bigger cable from the street to the house was price. We found the required length of cable for a very good price but it was of the larger size. Which can never be a bad thing. The cable I ran today is the 25mm and is over about a 100 foot distance but can handle 153amps when buried direct and over that distance has less then 1 percent voltage drop.


I went to the local electrical store to get insulation tape as the cable will be exposed to the elements until the connections are made. When I explained what I was doing to the guy who works there he showed me these shrink fit cable covers, they are filled with glue to create a good sealed fit when shrunk. Though I do question the the thoughts of whoever invented them as while shrinking them they just got more and more phallic looking. Weird. The staff member at the store was impressed that I wanted to protect the cable in such a way as apparently a lot of people don't think about that.  

Still put insulation tape on just for good measure, can never be too well protected.

Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Decided to pull this out and get it a bit ready as this will be going up soon.


Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Not a big update as been feeling under the weather this weekend, but got the cat 6 in the trench as well and back filled and put down the cable warning tape, then fully back filled.I laugh when digging trenches as you seem to end up with more dirt after backfilling then what came out when digging.

Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:A couple of wall boards up so that I can mount electrical panel. Not huge amount of progress this weekend. Had some other stuff going on.

Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Looks good.Y'ur getting closer!Panel boards tend to swell and sprawl... are you sure there isn't somewhere other to locate the board, rather than in the swing path of an entrance door?
Reply:That is something I had thought about but there should be enough clearance as long as it only gets wider taller and not deeper haha unfortunately behind the door is really the most convenient "out of the way" place to put it. I'll definitely have to put a door stop on the wall.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Getting the light ready.

Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:So much has happened and been changed since I started this thread that I need to update it. I’ll update soon once all the electrical is done.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:I will say that my quest is no longer a quest. I’ve had 3 phase for a while now.Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:

Originally Posted by William Payne

I will say that my quest is no longer a quest. I’ve had 3 phase for a while now.
Reply:The USA uses 120 volt to ground witch for 3 phase 240 volt and one leg to about 180 volt this used for manufacturers and Ag.In offices and large apartments the use 3 legs of 120 volt and then the 3phase is 208 volts for AC.We also have 480 volt for large manufacturers, large retailers and Ag use it 277 volt to ground for lightning.On rare occasion 600 volt for large motors users. The 60 cycle keeps the cost of  copper winding down.Now for other half of world in 50 cycle 220 to ground and 3 phase is 380 volt. If you in Japan they have all above plus 100 volt in some locations too.Other parts of world 415 volts and 240 volt to ground.I hope helps you on world power. Now do not have or your power high costs 3phase just simple 3 phase converter.This where 3phase motor and a single phase motor direct couple (note both motor are same rpm) The 3phase generator the third leg. This gives true 3phase.Dave

Originally Posted by William Payne

This will not exactly be a thread of woes, but more of a thread of taking longer then planned. But its happening. I notice over there in the USA you guys have a little war with your power companies regarding getting 3 phase power in your shops. Also for some of you it costs tens of thousands of dollar to get it. I also notice that your power supply voltages vary a great deal that all in all it is damn confusing. Down here in kiwi land all our power poles have 3 phase lines along the top row. Single phase supply gets tapped off of the poles and distributed to each house. Single phase supply is 230-240volts at 50hz and 3 phase supply is 400-415volts 50hz. Single phase is commonly referred to as 230volt and 3 phase 415volt. Most household single phase wall sockets are a 230volt 10 amp socket. For more higher rated single phase devices you can get a 15 amp socket. 3 phase sockets can be a bit amp specific, so you would obviously buy whats right for your equipment/wiring. I had a new garage built a couple of years ago and have been on a quest to have 3 phase installed since that point. I got lucky as there is a power pole right outside my house but what was even more lucky is that right outside my gate is a 3 phase distribution box that was plonked there when the people next door built a new house which was so that they could tap the single phase off of it. There is however a massive 3 phase cable going from the pole to that box which I got the great plan of connecting to. So the journey began with a trip to company that looks after all the lines and maintains all the power supply in my area. I told them my grand plan and they were all for it however did inform me it would be at a cost of almost a couple of thousand dollars to hook up to that box. We (myself and the lines contractor) tried for a 415v 100amp supply but unfortunately we could only get a 60amp supply due to power restrictions in my area (long story short the power company have maxed out the local transformers which is a bit dumb as both transformers near me have been often taken out by trucks). They put the required 60amp fuses into the little distribution box and I proceeded to dig a trench through my front yard to hook up to it. Which my awesome electrician nicely did for me. So I am currently only running single phase but have the 3 phase cabling thats required going from the street to my house meter box. After that I had some financial delays but am back into it. Now is the journey to go from my house meter box to my garage and have a 3 phase meter installed and the extra phases connected at the street. The first half of the journey all I did was the leg work for getting permission and digging the trench. But for the second half I am doing as much as possible myself so that my electrician can do what he is required, as here in New Zealand even though I am not an electrician I can run cable and do a lot of the grunt work but any connections to the meter box and main power supply have to be done by an electrician and anything I do will have to be up to code and inspected. Things I have learnt so far, 3 phase is expensive but worth it in the long run as most industrial stuff down here in 3 phase and equivelant single phase stuff is crazy expensive. Also no matter how worth it you think it is, trench digging is not fun at all. Also the local council really know bugga all regarding whats under the ground as I found a bunch of old pipework under the ground that they did not even know about.





Reply:Ok so update. I used to have a 351. I now have a 350lx. My 3 phase has all been installed and my Syncrowave is hard wired as that was the economical way to go. I wound up going with batten style LED lighting just because I wanted to prioritise power for the machines. LEDs do just fine without using much power.

Attached Images




Gear: Esab power compact 205 with tbi industries torch         BOC Smootharc 185dc tig         Miller Syncrowave 350LX
Reply:Look to be plenty room left for more circuits  


Reply:

Originally Posted by ronsii

Look to be plenty room left for more circuits  


Reply:

Originally Posted by William Payne

Getting the light ready.