Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

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I won a couple of cool old girls at an auction this week. A Dialarc HF-P and an Aircrafter 330STI don't know anything about the condition other than the sheet metal being pretty beat up. The Aircrafter unfortunately looks like it was chopped to fit under a bench. I think they were in use before the place shut down but I really don't know for sure, the first thing I need to do is find some footpedals. I'll probably sell one of them once I try them out and try to smooth out some sheet metalI certainly don't need them both but they were too cool to pass up



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Reply:

Originally Posted by chickenfarmer

I won a couple of cool old girls at an auction this week. A Dialarc HF-P and an Aircrafter 330ST.
Reply:Will they run on single phase power?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:Yea the power factor corrected means that it pulls a few less amps than an HF. I think that's the only difference.They both will run on single phase 240vAnd I believe you can run them off 480 3 phase by using two of the legs. Which is nice if you have 3 phase because they pull a ton of amps at 240v. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong there, but I think that's how they are wired in a shop with 3 phase powerSent from my BE2012 using Tapatalk
Reply:If you don't have the company literature on them you should be able to find it here:https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-partsThe HF-P will pull fewer amps while welding but a lot more idling. Unless you are on commercial power and need to watch your Power Factor the -P is not really too valuable to you unless you spend a lot of time welding steady. Just my $0.02.---Meltedmetal
Reply:I didn't know that, it would be interesting to measure how many amps it actually pulls compared to an HF at idle and otherwise. Cool stuff, luckily I'm not concerned with the cost to run it, it's certainly not a machine I'll be spending hours a day onSent from my BE2012 using Tapatalk
Reply:What is below is from the owner's manual of a Lincoln Idealarc. Idle current without (Power Factor Correction)PFC 6.2 amps With PFC 23 amps. But when you are actually welding with PFC is better. FYI the color of the machine won't change the science either.  So don't just walk away and leave it on cause you like that hum.

Also it is Friday

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS: IDEALARC AC/DC 250Model AC/DC 250 AC/DC 250Type K1053 K1054AC Input Frequency 60 50Output Rating NEMA CLASS II (60) IEC 974AC DC AC DCAmperes 300 250 250 250Volts 32 30 30 30Duty Cycle 20 30 30 30Current Range 35-300 40-250 35-250 40-250Max. O.C.V. 72 70 72 70Input PowerStandard Voltages 208/230/460 220/380/440230/460/575 380/415/500Rated Input Current(230V 60Hz, 220V 50Hz)With Condensers 68 68Without Condensers 86 86Idle Input Current (230V)With Condensers 23  23Without Condensers 6.2    6.2Power Factor (200 Amp Load)With Condensers 83.3 83.3Without Condensers 69.0 69.0INPUT - OUTPUT RATINGSHEIGHT WIDTH DEPTH WEIGHT27.00 in. 19.00 in. 21.50 in. 350 lbs.159 kg686 mm 483 mm 546 mm---Meltedmetal
Reply:That is super interesting, it does have a nice hum! Sent from my BE2012 using Tapatalk
Reply:It's always puzzled me how PFC machines burn so much power at idle. 23A @ 240V is 5520W. That's like three (almost four) 1500W space heaters running wide-open. Where's all that energy go?
Reply:

Originally Posted by Kelvin

Where's all that energy go?
Reply:

Originally Posted by John T

Keeping the capacitors fully charged??
Reply:The PFC caps are connected across the AC input so they charge in one direction then discharge and recharge in the other direction with the current reversal cycle.https://www.doeeet.com/content/eee-c...tion-circuits/---Meltedmetal
Reply:It will draw a lot of current, but no use a lot of power since the current is out of phase with the voltagesee this post I made a while back https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...96#post8755396The bulk of the idle power is dissipated by the series resistance of the PFC caps.On my Idealarc 250 they are composed of a small cap and a large one in parallel.  Since I never burn any rod larger than 1/8" I'm tempted to disconnect the larger cap.Last edited by frieed; 05-31-2021 at 07:54 AM.MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"
Reply:Thanks, Meltedmetal and Frieed...wish I understood that kind of stuff better.