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Been reading here and it seems Dialarc and Idealarc are both highly desirable machines.Because I have zero experience welding I figure it makes sense to get a nicer machine so learning goes as smoothly as possible.Took a chance on an auction and need to wire up a Dialarc and get leads and all for it. I've read there's rarely anything that can go wrong with them and checked serial info and it's from 1982.Does a typical garage have the wiring/breaker/panel to support using a Dialarc? Is it likely I'd need to do electrical work to accommodate using it?I've also read they're nearly 400 lb machines - how does a one man operation typically move/transport one of these without assistance?Any thoughts or direction on how to get me on the right track here and ultimately welding would be greatly appreciated.Thank you for reading and God bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Reply:Well those are great machines and you have options on moving them in the shop. There is a factory Miller undercarriage kit available or you could build one with heavy duty castors. I would suggest you download the manual from Miller. Be sure you remove the right side panel and inspect the jumper placement on the power lugs. If this machine came out of an industrial setting it could be wired for 460 volts. Sent from my iPad using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
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Here is a Dialarc I used to have. It was a 1983. The undercarriage was the Miller OEM. It was powder coated with custom topSent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
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The red panel at the bottom right is where the jumpers are locatedSent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:Thanks for the replies!I've got the manual downloaded and see what you're talking about with wiring voltage.So as long as I have it set to 220v (or less...?) it should theoretically be fine for a typical garage, or is it likely I'd need to upgrade electrical capacity somehow?Yours looks awesome there!
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This is it here too, right?
Reply:Thats it. A 50 amp circuit is what I would recommend at minimum. Jumpers set for 220VSent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:You guys posted 4-5 times while I was writing this, so you have answered some. Questions you need to answer before going too far. Is it a single phase machine? That should be on the plate with electrical information. Many guys have been disappointed to find they bought a 3 phase machine which is unlikely to run in a residential garage. As Steve pointed out, you need the manual for your specific machine to ensure any jumpers are set correctly. You should be able to look up by model and serial number here:https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-partsMiller Customer Service and Tech Support are terrific so reach out to them if needed 920-734-9821.Without manual, I think you will need at least a 50 amp 220v outlet. To use at its maximum you may need more amps. I have used a 50 amp with my Syncrowave for 8 years with no problem but Im a hobbyist, not a full time shop. If you need to add a circuit, you are allowed to de-rate the wiring for welders due to their intermittent use so work with your electrician. I had to hire a tow truck to unload my Syncrowave because I had no other lift capability. I purchased a shop crane from Harbor Freight in case I need to load up. It is on a heavy duty cart to move around shop. Looks like you need leads and ground clamp. Are you planning to stick weld or going to TIG? Of course you need safety gear - (helmet, gloves, etc), grinders, clamps, some way to cut metal (jigsaw, cutoff wheel, circular saw, band saw), and your first project will likely be a welding table. Welcome to the forum. I always suggest adding your location for help with welding and metal suppliers (not big box stores) or local member to help you get started. Once you are setup, spend a lot of time here or other sites to learn all you can.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:As far as I know all Dialarc 250 welders were single phase but could be set to run on 2 legs of 3 phase. The old Lincoln Idealarc250 welders were all single phase Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:Mine had wheels installed by the previous owner (lawnmower style at the back, swivel castors up front) so it works much like Sparkie's. I might make a removable handle to pull it with the garden tractor or ATV some day. It's ok to move it around the shop, but because of the weight it's not really a portable. I have a couple AC buzz boxes I would grab first if I was going to weld something in the field with the generator... there's lots of light weight options in the newer/lighter multi-process machines if you go that direction. If you need to move it around you'll need a plug in on the end of that cord rather than hard wiring again. For farm repairs I'm running mine on a 50 amp circuit and it's been fine. As far as your wiring being adequate, you'll probably need a dedicated line from the box to your new 50 amp plugin, but you should probably get someone with some electrical qualifications to look at the panel and see what you do have there. What is "typical" can vary a lot from region to region.... or at least post some pics( inside and out).. most of these guys can tell you what it is.250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC StickF-225 amp Forney AC Stick230 amp Sears AC StickLincoln 180C MIGVictor Medalist 350 O/ACut 50 PlasmaLes
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Originally Posted by HisWord1ST
Thanks for the replies!I've got the manual downloaded and see what you're talking about with wiring voltage.So as long as I have it set to 220v (or less...?) it should theoretically be fine for a typical garage, or is it likely I'd need to upgrade electrical capacity somehow?Yours looks awesome there!
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Thanks for all the replies and I'm happy to be here!Here's electrical info from the manual. I don't know if that means 50 amps is sufficient in all respects or not.I have a panel in my garage - will a picture of it uploaded here give the necessary information to know if it'll handle 220 volts?I have casters I can put on it but I meant un/loading into/onto a vehicle for transport. Lifting it solo into a SUV will be hard without a forklift or something and the seller won't help I'm pretty certain...I'm planning on learning to stick weld with it and potentially learn to TIG at some point. My primary interest is in welding strength equipment up but anything else would be great (like a trailer to go pick up this machine with my SUV to begin with). So I'd imagine I'll be doing it all from the garage and maybe lead length will be important. I saw another post about buying 100' of lead mentioned in reference to this same machine but I'm sure the associated costs have gone up quite a bit from the time that was posted.
Reply:Something to consider as to lead length. If your welder will be in one location in the shop then the power lead will be easy to figure out. But if its on a cart and you will regularly roll it over to the overhead door or out on a concrete apron to weld you should consider buying 6-3 SO power cord long enough to do that. With the longer power cord you can buy less 1 or 1/0 welding lead. This will be expensive but cheaper than buying double the length of welding lead for stinger and ground. The welder I had pictured had 30 of 6-3 SO and 100 of 1/0 divided 60/40 stinger/ground. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:When I bought my idealarc, the seller loaded it with a forklift. When I got it home I borrowed a neighbors engine hoist to unload it.MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"
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Originally Posted by HisWord1ST
Thanks for all the replies and I'm happy to be here!Here's electrical info from the manual. I don't know if that means 50 amps is sufficient in all respects or not.I have a panel in my garage - will a picture of it uploaded here give the necessary information to know if it'll handle 220 volts?I have casters I can put on it but I meant un/loading into/onto a vehicle for transport. Lifting it solo into a SUV will be hard without a forklift or something and the seller won't help I'm pretty certain...I'm planning on learning to stick weld with it and potentially learn to TIG at some point. My primary interest is in welding strength equipment up but anything else would be great (like a trailer to go pick up this machine with my SUV to begin with). So I'd imagine I'll be doing it all from the garage and maybe lead length will be important. I saw another post about buying 100' of lead mentioned in reference to this same machine but I'm sure the associated costs have gone up quite a bit from the time that was posted.
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Originally Posted by Sparkie1957
Something to consider as to lead length. If your welder will be in one location in the shop then the power lead will be easy to figure out. But if its on a cart and you will regularly roll it over to the overhead door or out on a concrete apron to weld you should consider buying 6-3 SO power cord long enough to do that. With the longer power cord you can buy less 1 or 1/0 welding lead. This will be expensive but cheaper than buying double the length of welding lead for stinger and ground. The welder I had pictured had 30 of 6-3 SO and 100 of 1/0 divided 60/40 stinger/ground. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally Posted by frieed
When I bought my idealarc, the seller loaded it with a forklift. When I got it home I borrowed a neighbors engine hoist to unload it.
Reply:Rent a engine hoist at a rental store. Dont take the chance of hurting yourself or tearing up the welder. They are to heavy and hard to get a handle on. The lifting eye was put there for a reasonSent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
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Originally Posted by HisWord1ST
So it's cheaper to buy a longer power cord than twice the lead length to accommodate working distance, right?Is there a minimum distance the table and project should be from the welder itself? Is there a 10' minimum lead length for stinger and ground each?I've seen 55'/45' and 60'/40' stinger/ground mentioned here both now - is this just because you want room to move around with the stinger while the ground remains attached to the closest part of the workpiece to the welder? So the bigger the object a person is welding on, the more rationale for have a stinger lead length significantly longer than ground lead length - is that correct?
Reply:Hire a tow truck to load and unload. Best if you have a trailer or open truck. If not too distant hire tow truck to pickup and deliver. I paid $45 to tow truck for picking up and setting down.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
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Originally Posted by G-ManBart
The electric service guide shows 80A of input current required when the supply is at 230V and the welder is putting out the rated output. Some versions are rated at 225A output and some are rated at 250A output, but either is much higher than you're likely to ever need. With the common 1/8" electrodes you probably won't need any more than 150A or so. Even going up a size to 5/32 electrodes you probably wouldn't need more than 200A. You shouldn't have any problem with a 50A circuit running anything typical of home shop welding. It wouldn't hurt to have an 80A circuit but it would cost quite a bit more from a breaker/wire standpoint.If you take a picture of the panel we can probably get an idea if it will support a welder. You'd also want to check the panel on the house side and see what sort of breaker is supplying the panel. As an example...just because you have a 100A panel in the garage doesn't mean that's what it's being supplied with from the main panel.I wouldn't try loading/unloading a Dialarc without something mechanical to pick it up! I use a cherry picker/hoist/crane to move anything that size. Maybe 3/4 young guys with really strong backs could lift it, but that's asking for smashed fingers....no good places to hold it.Dialarcs are fantastic stick welders, but limited from a TIG perspective since only the HF models have high frequency start as an option. You'll be limited to lift/scratch start and won't be able to weld aluminum (needs continuous HF). You may just want to plan on buying an inexpensive TIG welder when you decide to make that move.
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Originally Posted by HisWord1ST
Thanks for the reply!My suuuuper slow internet wouldn't work with the image uploads until after around a dozen attempts or so!So here's what's in the garage. It says outside 220 for one switch so I'm guessing that's a good sign?I'll have to get something to move it without doing it on my own since that's the consensus here and for good reason.Good to know about the TIG considerations.
Reply:This is a poster case of ask before you buy. Its a fine machine for some people but you are a poster child for a Everlast 160 or evenb a DC buzzer runs from a common 50 welder recept Something fits the scenario, Sell this dinosaur, buy a modern machine that will run from a 12 cord. Gotta rent equipment to move this fugger, who ever advised you or the research used to come to the conclusion this was the machine for you not worth it for free.Last edited by Sberry; 1 Day Ago at 09:21 PM.www.urkafarms.com
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Originally Posted by G-ManBart
That's a pretty good sized panel, and there are several 220/230V breakers, so that's a good sign. The next thing to figure out is the supply this panel gets from the main panel. Assuming this is a sub-panel being fed off a 230V breaker on the main panel, you should be able to look at that breaker and have an idea what's being sent to the sub-panel. You'll want to add up the normal loads being supplied by the sub-panel and see if you have enough excess to power the welder. If you aren't comfortable with that, it might be time to get an electrician in to do a load analysis and see what will work and what needs to be done.If there's a towing company close by that might be your best bet for loading/unloading. I had a local wrecker meet me at an auction pickup to load a metal lathe for me and he only hit me for $100....considering the size and liability I thought that was reasonable.
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Originally Posted by Sberry
This is a poster case of ask before you buy. Its a fine machine for some people but you are a poster child for a Everlast 160 or evenb a DC buzzer runs from a common 50 welder recept Something fits the scenario, Sell this dinosaur, buy a modern machine that will run from a 12 cord. Gotta rent equipment to move this fugger, who ever advised you or the research used to come to the conclusion this was the machine for you not worth it for free.
Originally Posted by HisWord1ST
How do I find the main panel? I've never seen any other panel inside the house at all - is there anywhere else it could be or could it be that one of those is the main panel?I'd not be comfortable with that without further guidance.I have a box truck with liftgate that would make it simple but it's got a big battery drain due to some of the wiring to the liftgate and I've not figured it out yet. If I need to, I may just charge it up, keep the liftgate disconnected and then once arriving onsite, I can connect the liftgate wiring to the battery bank and get it loaded up and then disconnect it once I'm all set to head back.It could have been a big problem once previously but that was a two hour drive each way and I had it wired to the battery bank the whole way so I think the above would work out if necessary.
Reply:I would guess the garage is attached to the house? If so your panel(probably only panel) is full by the looks. You might want to consult an electrician regarding adding a sub panel in the garage or some other recommended solution.---Meltedmetal
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Originally Posted by G-ManBart
Sell the dinosaur? You clearly haven't read the OP's posts.
Reply:Does having this outlet do me any good here or is it that electrical capacity has been reached and I'll likely overload something by trying to use it?
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Originally Posted by Meltedmetal
I would guess the garage is attached to the house? If so your panel(probably only panel) is full by the looks. You might want to consult an electrician regarding adding a sub panel in the garage or some other recommended solution.
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Originally Posted by HisWord1ST
Does having this outlet do me any good here or is it that electrical capacity has been reached and I'll likely overload something by trying to use it?
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Originally Posted by Sberry
No, I havnt read a lot here. I know the place is full of compulsive junk collectors hell bent on "saving" old junk. The advice or learning he got about buying this for a first timer might have been different if he said,,, I am in the excavation business or have a heavy farm shop then this machine would have been a dec3ent choice at the right price, where handling, electric and lead expense not an issue but for a guy got to "rent" a cherry picker the price climbs with each event and he got no use for this old junk. He has poor advisor to start off with this vs something with common input and manageable weight. He gets poor advice from great people here. They are great with technical but poor value added salesman in the sense not helping him get the right machine for him. I got 2 SA200's, they are great machines but no matter the deal I dont think its a great starter machine unless he is headed to pipeline.
Reply:The Dialarc is a great welder that would serve your purpose to learn on. Is it more welder than you need? Probably, but sense you already have it, get it hooked up and use it. Take a community college welding class if you can to learn the basics and safety issues with welding. Lots of good YouTube welding videos to help you with your journey. Another option is to sell the Dialarc and buy a small multivoltage inverter machine. Your money, your choice. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:I think your choice of machine is just fine. Yes, it's a dinosaur and as such has stone age technology that was designed to run and run and run. No, it doesn't have lots of bells and whistles and you don't need(or want) those as you are learning the basics. As has been said a number of times have an electrician look at your available power. If you have 50 amps great if you don't you can likely run that on 30 amps and never have an issue. Get some 7014 and start running beads, watch the molten puddle not the flux.Lastly you are going to find 25 different answers for every question you ask.
Reply:The outlet in your picture is what used to pass for a welder outlet around here. If you have someone capable get them to test the outlet with a meter so you can discover which breaker is on that circuit. On the assumption that your house was wired by a competent electrician, it might indicate whether or not it is a robust enough circuit for the welder. Or as Sparkie said get your friendly neighborhood electrician to swing by and check it out. Also if the welder was originally on 480 v you may have to replace the wire in the flex tube with something larger and swap the outlet for a disconnect switch or a different connection such as a cord if you want to be able to unplug it to move it for storage.. Depending on what you choose to do that might involve replacing the outlet with a different style.Oh yes, I see nothing wrong with the choice of machine although you are already discovering the limits of portability. The new inverters are nice too and usually easily portable. The welder you've got will have room for you to grow if your ambitions expand in the future. Some of the low end cheap inverters are limited and some welders are able to do amazing things with them but that may say something about the operators experience/skill more than it does about the machines. Just my opinion, nothing more.Last edited by Meltedmetal; 21 Hours Ago at 01:16 PM.---Meltedmetal
Reply:Thank you everyone for your help and your time and energy to help me in all the considerations and aspects to look into here.I was given an out on the auction and took it, so the dialarc I would have paid $93 for is now someone else's for $91.With lead cables at $2.87/foot, having to figure out the power cable and the power panel, hiring an electrician, diesel for a 6.5 hour drive along with possibly getting stranded also with my liftgate battery bank drain issue, I opted to just take the out and find a simpler route for now.There was an Everlast 160 STH even further from me at about half price but that's a heck of a drive and the seller won't be bothered shipping it to me...There's an Everlast 200 STI that's just over a half hour from me. I'm trying to understand the differences between these two DC only models, given the $130 price difference between them - is it that there are better TIG options with the 160? The seller wants $300 for it.Says it's like new. It retails for $400 and if I buy from him I don't get the 5 year warranty.Does anyone here see any other welders listed anywhere within an hour or two of Mountain Home AR? Something that might meet my needs better? At a better price or a better value?
Reply:Probably a wise decision on your part. If it didnt feel right for you. Somebody will get a sweet deal on a fantastic stick welder so its a win-win. Good luck with your pursuit of welding knowledge. Its a worthwhile endeavor. Anyone on this forum can tell you of jams we have gotten out of do to our ability to weld and make something work to finish a jobSent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
Reply:The cheap price was just the start, 6 hr drive, lift gate etc, was gonna be spensive . Get a 160 dvi, 120v welding is revolutionary. That outlet cirxuit would run 1/8 lohy. Take that range thing off and put welder outlet on. I think the 150 weigz 15#. Will run on 100 ft 12 cord well. Will run 1/8 6011 and 3/32 lohy from 20A at 120v.
Reply:Buy a new one in box.
Reply:Speaking of Miller. I too have a inverter and think its great. Its a Maxstar 140STR, it was made by Fronius for Miller in 2003. I got its used and do stick and lift arc tig. It weighs 10lbs and is the size of a 4 slice toaster, hence its nickname the toaster. Works on household 115v or 230v current. Great technology, will it last for 50 years like a Dialarc? Probably not but its great while it lasts Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches
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Originally Posted by Sberry
The cheap price was just the start, 6 hr drive, lift gate etc, was gonna be spensive . Get a 160 dvi, 120v welding is revolutionary. That outlet cirxuit would run 1/8 lohy. Take that range thing off and put welder outlet on. I think the 150 weigz 15#. Will run on 100 ft 12 cord well. Will run 1/8 6011 and 3/32 lohy from 20A at 120v.
Reply:I'm a bit confused by the chart posted. My Dialarc 250HF was, (I'm sure) rated at 105 amp input. Mine ran on #4 copper & 100 amp breaker. I wonder if "rated" amperage is like my Miller MIG welder, 60% duty cycle @ 200 amps, but 300 amps maximum?Yours is a big welder, but I doubt you'll ever need its full power stick welding A 5/32 electrode only wants half its potential output. My greater concern is voltage loss from too long a run, the welder will not perform at its best running on lower than intended voltage. 230 means 230, not less.An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.
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Originally Posted by Willie B
I'm a bit confused by the chart posted. My Dialarc 250HF was, (I'm sure) rated at 105 amp input. Mine ran on #4 copper & 100 amp breaker. I wonder if "rated" amperage is like my Miller MIG welder, 60% duty cycle @ 200 amps, but 300 amps maximum?Yours is a big welder, but I doubt you'll ever need its full power stick welding A 5/32 electrode only wants half its potential output. My greater concern is voltage loss from too long a run, the welder will not perform at its best running on lower than intended voltage. 230 means 230, not less.
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Originally Posted by G-ManBart
Someone's been
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Originally Posted by Sberry
Get help if you need it then.
Reply:Your advice was some of the better in the thread considering he cant find the frickin electric panel. Telling him to get an outlet first was a good step. But we are not doing him a favor or giving any great advice leading him on to think this is a great machine for him. Cant even unload it, move it, wire it, got to pay every step of the way, add 3$ a foot lead. I believe it was a 6 hour drive on top of it. Not sure what is incomprehensible about that, seems pretty simple. For 1/4 the cost of this brain fart could get a new machine in a box and plug it in the wall, weld something 10 minutes after getting it home.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:I did wonder if there were different versions due to the chart. I dont own one, have a 300 Synch though. Its the same type of thing, cheap or free and its ok for a guy like myself or Bart who can handle and install it but I am not investing in one. I use DC buzzer for shop sticks. But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for most people asking this type of question,,, need to learn how to listen so to speak and the advice givers need to asses the situation and experts SHOULD be a value add. Its kind of easy to simply rave over what machine we have and recommend it as well as learning on a 250 or 400 Idealarc. Tig is raved on endlessly but I can do it,,, dont however as simply dont need it. That doesnt mean it doesnt have its place or might not be fun or even a guy likes it better but I make 10000 wire and stick welds on common steel vs exotic alloy and even when I do use a spool gun if its humanly possible. The reason I say is for 99% of the guys come here and ask a question of this nature anyone telling him to get anything other than a 200 wire feeder is doing them a disservice and if they do somehow manage to find something they cant do with that its time to look for another machine.www.urkafarms.com
Reply:As to different versions of the Dialarc, there absolutely was. The first MA type Dialarc came out in about 1974, they had a white faceplate and 250 amp maximum amperage on DC. The next version in the 80s had a black faceplate and 265 amp maximum DC output. In the late 90s they went away from the pin type lead connections and went to normal lugs under a panel. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSteveMiller Dialarc 250 (1990)Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)Lincoln MP210 (2015)Victor and MECO torches |
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发表于 2021-9-1 23:11:37