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Im a hobbyist with an interest in learning how to weld a variety of metals. Ive had a small MIG (SP-135) unit, but have sold it and am now trying to decide what new welder to buy. Im intrigued with the idea of using a TIG unit, but I have some concerns that the learning curve may be very steep (especially without any formal instruction) or that I might not be able to weld some thicker metal...steel (?). I am not interested in production so time to weld a given job is not important. I guess the uncertainty of how the TIG process would work for me makes me somewhat reluctant to exercise the credit card. Ive been lusting over the Precision TIG 185. Anyone have any comments that might help me work toward a decision on a new welder?
Reply:That tig unit can, in theory, do any thickness steel with multiple passes, but production time might start to matter with really small tig units. There are quite a few discussions about this particular welder. You might want to do a search to read through them. The learning curve is based on coordination and practice. If you have the ability to pat your head and rub your belly without help from others, you can eventually tig. Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I think you would like that unit. one other thing to keep in mind that with most tig units not only can you tig, but you do have the option of stick welding as well. So welding the heavier peices are not a problem. just something to think about.~jacksonI'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by smithboyThat tig unit can, in theory, do any thickness steel with multiple passes, but production time might start to matter with really small tig units. There are quite a few discussions about this particular welder. You might want to do a search to read through them. The learning curve is based on coordination and practice. If you have the ability to pat your head and rub your belly without help from others, you can eventually tig.
Reply:If you're into Lincoln, and the PT185 will more than satisfy you, I think it'd be a good purchase.You can save a few bucks if you go with an inverter-based setup like the Invertec V160-T (I've got one in my garage and it's great for what I need) and you'll only sacrifice 25A of output at the top end of the TIG scale. The 160 is a DC-only though, and the Invertec V205 will cost a lot more than a PT185.If you're doing any aluminum work you'll make the 185 your new best friend, for sure.MR
Reply:as a gentle reminder. in tig, alluminum is with AC only (some say dc reverse polarity IS possible...) but in the real world, the tungsten is huge, wasted energy, poor weld quality and just a pain. AC for alluminum. Everything else is pretty much happy in DC. And, if you get a wire feeder that runs push/pull or a spool gun, you can still do great alluminum with DC. Alot of the inverter machines are "multi-process" meaning with accesories, they can, and will weld the other processes very well. Just a lil more info for your pallette. i myself just got an invertec 350 PRO Advanced Process. I am thrilled to see this machine as described on Ebay. The seller has 60 total, or had, so if your interested in a powerfull multi-process machine, I can help you with a good seller. retail is like 4200 I think. He's selling em for 1800 (2002 yr model) I paid 2200 for mine, as a 2004 yr model. they are lease return from a manufacturing facility, and I believe him when he says they were in Air conditioned labs. They are in great shape. I'm so stoked!!! Good luck in your search! The lincoln 185 seems to be an excellent machine. can't see how you could go wrong with it. Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:Ummm...that does add a whole other factor to the equation. That machine looks like it comes pretty much bare bones so I recon a fair amount of "accessories" are required to get it up and running?? Whaddya figure would be a good guess on cost of necessary accessories to do MIG / TIG? Originally Posted by Sparkeee24as a gentle reminder. in tig, alluminum is with AC only (some say dc reverse polarity IS possible...) but in the real world, the tungsten is huge, wasted energy, poor weld quality and just a pain. AC for alluminum. Everything else is pretty much happy in DC. And, if you get a wire feeder that runs push/pull or a spool gun, you can still do great alluminum with DC. Alot of the inverter machines are "multi-process" meaning with accesories, they can, and will weld the other processes very well. Just a lil more info for your pallette. i myself just got an invertec 350 PRO Advanced Process. I am thrilled to see this machine as described on Ebay. The seller has 60 total, or had, so if your interested in a powerfull multi-process machine, I can help you with a good seller. retail is like 4200 I think. He's selling em for 1800 (2002 yr model) I paid 2200 for mine, as a 2004 yr model. they are lease return from a manufacturing facility, and I believe him when he says they were in Air conditioned labs. They are in great shape. I'm so stoked!!! Good luck in your search! The lincoln 185 seems to be an excellent machine. can't see how you could go wrong with it. Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:Sparkeee24....Did I read the tech sheet right; the invertec 350 takes a 70 AMP dedicated circuit? What size wire would you run from the panel to the plug?j Originally Posted by Sparkeee24as a gentle reminder. in tig, alluminum is with AC only (some say dc reverse polarity IS possible...) but in the real world, the tungsten is huge, wasted energy, poor weld quality and just a pain. AC for alluminum. Everything else is pretty much happy in DC. And, if you get a wire feeder that runs push/pull or a spool gun, you can still do great alluminum with DC. Alot of the inverter machines are "multi-process" meaning with accesories, they can, and will weld the other processes very well. Just a lil more info for your pallette. i myself just got an invertec 350 PRO Advanced Process. I am thrilled to see this machine as described on Ebay. The seller has 60 total, or had, so if your interested in a powerfull multi-process machine, I can help you with a good seller. retail is like 4200 I think. He's selling em for 1800 (2002 yr model) I paid 2200 for mine, as a 2004 yr model. they are lease return from a manufacturing facility, and I believe him when he says they were in Air conditioned labs. They are in great shape. I'm so stoked!!! Good luck in your search! The lincoln 185 seems to be an excellent machine. can't see how you could go wrong with it. Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:Howdy! 70 amps or so... you can't get an affordable plug for that much current, I have found. 60's are somewhat common, 50's real common. You can (not legally, but will work just fine parallel two 50 amp plugs.) I am using 4 guage SJOW cord, out of a 100amp subpanel fed with #2 copper about 60' from my primary service. Out of this subpanel, on the 4 awg SJOW cord I have 4 tweco twist-lock welding lead connectors for the appropriate size wire. The two hots i have male side out. The neutral and ground, I have setup female side out. That way there is no chance of getting a hot mixed with a grounded lead. This was my best solution. You CAN run 6-3 just fine within about 50 foot run for this welder, and a 60 amp plug, and I bet you'd never have a problem (unless you plan on maxing the 350-425 amp output) All you gotta do, is make sure the breaker is sized for the wire. The worst that could hapen, is a nuasance trip at 300-350 amp ish output. But It'd be safe. I like how versatile this machine is. As far as accessories, neaded, it depends on what processes you want to do first For stick, you nead a ground clamp, lead stinger, lead and rod. For tig, you nead a tig toch, argon bottle, flowguage/meter, amp-trol either foot or on torch, ground clamp and lead. For mig wire feed, you would nead a ground clamp, lead, wire feeder, mig gun, control cable for machine to wire feeder, power lead from machine to wire feeder. some feeders may nead a feedback control cable from the workpiece, but most don't. Also argon/CO2 bottle, meter/guage, possibly solenoid in wire feeder. Now, this machine will do alluminum fantastic with either a spool gun, or alluminum push/pull wire feeder cabinet. You CAN run alluminum OK through a short gun cable and a regular wire feeder, but many people have feeding issues if production is what your after. SOme have no problem at all. Have a great time with your new welder! whatever you get Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:quote70 amps or so... you can't get an affordable plug for that much current, I have found. 60's are somewhat common, 50's real common. You can (not legally, but will work just fine parallel two 50 amp plugs.)That fits with what the Lincoln guys said when I asked them about the TIG-185 Plug; that machine draws 64 amps at the highest setting, but they use a 50amp plug. They explained that they have NO PROBLEM with that size as the duty cycle on that machine wouldn't allow one to overload the plug. They said, "The reason for the 50 amp plug is because we can size it that way utilizing the fact that this welder has a duty cycle of 15% at 185 amps (100% at 90 amps). Also, we realize that most TIG welding is done on 150 amps or below. Therefore the plug is sized correctly."Thanks, so much, for your reply. I was concerned looking at Lincoln's "recommended options" that to get set up I'd have to spend as much as the welder.I think I just may go with it. I'm assuming since you didn't mention it that the eBay site is the one where you got yours....Thanks again.j
Reply:[QUOTE=Sparkeee24]as a gentle reminder. in tig, alluminum is with AC only (some say dc reverse polarity IS possible...) but in the real world, the tungsten is huge, wasted energy, poor weld quality and just a pain. AC for alluminum. Everything else is pretty much happy in DC. And, if you get a wire feeder that runs push/pull or a spool gun, you can still do great alluminum with DC. How does the push / pull feeder make the difference over a regulare wire feeder?I'm interested in your comments above.....what about very low amperage settings with TIG on DC, won't that work well for aluminum? Are you contending that TIG in DC is just not going to work well on aluminum? Realize, that for me (an old moto guy with nothing else to do), production time/rate will only rarely be an issue.I did (sorta) ONE aluminum project with my SP-135 (Lincoln's smallest MIG unit). I did have significant weld problems and while some of it was OK (read barely acceptable) I did ultimately resort to getting a buddy with a BIG welder finish the job using his MIG outfit with a spool gun. He got some nice welds (at least some of the time), but said, on numerous occasions, that I could do the job well with a TIG unit. He mentioned more than once that a minimum of 25-28 volts were necessary to get a good job with aluminum using MIG. Do you buy into that? Well, I made the plunge! The Invertec 350 PRO AP should be shipping the first of the week. I've spent (too many) hours today looking at accessory packages / components and the result is that, in the interest of $$, that I'll start with the TIG application as the accessory costs are less than MIG and I'm not too interested in stick although I realize that there are many worthy applications for this technique. The startup costs for the MIG setup are just too steep on the heels of buying the unit especially if I become interested in buying a high-end (push-pull??) wire feeder.I sure do appreciate your counsel and am looking forward to getting this puppy "wired".!!!Thanks,
Reply:Stick is the least expensive technique. For tool-up costs. Like I emailed ya earlier. You nead and electrode holder (about 10-30$) a power cable (about 1.50 / ft) roughly 1/0 or 2/0 would be great. The same ground clamp and another 25' of same cable, and your set! No gas, no regulator. That you can easily weld your thick materials with fast and efficiently. You don't have to buy the "lincoln brand" kits. I'm sure we could advise a great startup "kit" for less then half the lincoln price. Good luck, Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:Originally Posted by Sparkeee24Stick is the least expensive technique. For tool-up costs. Like I emailed ya earlier. You nead and electrode holder (about 10-30$) a power cable (about 1.50 / ft) roughly 1/0 or 2/0 would be great. The same ground clamp and another 25' of same cable, and your set! No gas, no regulator. That you can easily weld your thick materials with fast and efficiently. You don't have to buy the "lincoln brand" kits. I'm sure we could advise a great startup "kit" for less then half the lincoln price. Good luck, Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:Ok! Alluminum is very soft wire. It "kinks" all over in a regular wire feeders liners. This is a "push" style system. A "push-pull" style, has a master motor, and a slave motor. One large motor in the machine, and a small motor in the actuall gun. So it both pushes, and pulls the wire. This prevents kinks, and also easily lets you run with a 25 ft gun and alluminum. Boat builders use this style alot. You can also get an alluminum system at about half the price as push pull, that uses a gun and lil 2 pound spools. The spool is actually in the gun itself. It neads a controller box for it as well. but this system is much much more affordable, and you are not limited bye cable length through do to wire friction. Both work very well. OK. Now, as far as A/C Vs. D/C goes, AC (in a simple 50/50 waveform) puts heat into the work 1/2 the time, and heat into the torch 1/2 the time. Think of it as flowing electrons through an ionized gas. (roughly) the electrons coming from the work, pull up all the oxides, almost all of them, and disapate them in the air while the cycle flips to the other direction. Then on the down force of electrons, the workpiece gets most of its heat input. This AC, 50/50 cleaning/heating cycle works wonderfull for tig and welding techniques in which the tip is non-consumable. In DC, IF you were to run standard polarity, then about 90% of heat is in the work, and the electrons go towards the work almost constantly. This requires a very small tungsten, and can makeup for a smaller power output machine. <--- tig mode The downfall, is that their is NO cleaning of the alluminum base AT ALL! Now, in DC, if you were to run reverse polarity, then the heat would be concentrated 90% at the tip of the torch, requiring massive massive tungsten. It would take lots and lots of energy to perform the same welding task. The benefit, is that the aluminum can be extremely oxidized, and still come out beautiful, because there is sooooo much cleaning action from the arc itself. so, lots of power for small clean pretty welds. very expensive to run too. <--- tig also. Now for DC mig applications (and spoolguns), you get the best of both worlds! in reverse polarity, (normal for all mig, I believe, maybee...) The DC pulls the oxides away from the base metal, and into the inert gas plume all the time. Now, because the electrode (wire) is constantly melting, it does not overheat! (like tungsten would) then the hot molten wire is deposited on clean base metal as the heat is focused at the wire. This does require a bit more energy then steel because alluminum moves the heat so well away from the weld, and also because the polarity wastes energy in cleaning (not a waste, as it's soooo important for alluminums) Hope this helps! So, what I am planning on doing, is getting an MK used, push pull wire feeder setup for alluminum, a push pull gun, and then a standard wire feeder for steel. This way I don't have to swap setups, and have the best of both worlds! Now, some machines have computer programs i.e. pulsing and pulse on pulse, that when setup correctly, can produce fantasticly beautifull mig welds. The miller 350P and lincoln 350 MP can both run a push/pull gun out of it's own cabinet, without any modifications. The 350 MP has the same "brains" as the Invertec 350 V Pro. The invertec is purely a power supply, and produces much much more power output, but the waveform is near the same as the 350 MP. The 350MP is an actuall combo feeder/power supply unit. Your talking 4,500$ for the mp350 or 350P. (the 350 is misleading a bit) on th invertec, the 350 is at 60% duty cycle. The mp350 and 350P have a maximun rated output of 350. So really a 350 invertec could be called an invertec 425, if they followed their new adopted labeling style. I hope this makes sence. I crunched the numbers, and the invertec 350 is a much better deal per watt output, even including a new mig gun and feeder in the numbers. (model L-72) Also, the invertec has not only higher amps, but significantly higher voltage for stick applications and such. Now if they were out for 3 or 4 years, then I would have opted for them, in a used version for cost reasons. You are getting a fantasticly versital machine. You can weld every metal in all thicknesses realistic for 1 phase power. It's just that alluminum would be much better with mig/spoolgun. Everything else can be readily welded in the other processes. (alluminum stick welding sucks big time ) it's not a science, it's an art. I( hope this helps) Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:Wow....this REALLY HELPS! THANKS!!!So.....You think you can find a reasonalably priced MK unit in good condition for the aluminum set-up? The only used ones I've seen have been advertised in "fair" condition....and I'm not sure what's involved with rehabbing one.Would you get the Python gun for this set-up? It looks like (only after a quick look on the web) that a new MK unit and Python gun set-up would run around 3K).I only changed the liner in that little MIG unit I had once and it took about a half an hour.....would it be more complicated to switch wire in the MK unit? I'm thinking about the possibility of using a MK set-up for anything welded with MiG??And the second (steel) MIG wire feeder set-up...an aftermarket (non Lincoln) brand of some kind or would you go with a Lincoln wire feeder?I guess this is one of the attractions of TIG.....the consumable set-up is not an issue....but maybe there are different torches for different metals?? I DON'T KNOW NEAR ENOUGH yet.I've reconsidered the stick option...to get started. I want to do some stuff with the Invertec and I DON'T want to push a decision on the MIG set-up (or some adaptatioin of a TIG unit) until I'm damned sure of what I want (and why). I was going to go with some generic stuff from Welding Supplies (http://www.weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin...ogs.pl?UNDEF::) for the stick equipment using the criteria you sent. Do you have a favorite brand or element holder that you like for the ergos or ease of use.....? I figuered that I could use the ground clamp cable for the MIG or TIG apps as well, is that right?j Originally Posted by Sparkeee24Ok! Alluminum is very soft wire. It "kinks" all over in a regular wire feeders liners. This is a "push" style system. A "push-pull" style, has a master motor, and a slave motor. One large motor in the machine, and a small motor in the actuall gun. So it both pushes, and pulls the wire. This prevents kinks, and also easily lets you run with a 25 ft gun and alluminum. Boat builders use this style alot. You can also get an alluminum system at about half the price as push pull, that uses a gun and lil 2 pound spools. The spool is actually in the gun itself. It neads a controller box for it as well. but this system is much much more affordable, and you are not limited bye cable length through do to wire friction. Both work very well. OK. Now, as far as A/C Vs. D/C goes, AC (in a simple 50/50 waveform) puts heat into the work 1/2 the time, and heat into the torch 1/2 the time. Think of it as flowing electrons through an ionized gas. (roughly) the electrons coming from the work, pull up all the oxides, almost all of them, and disapate them in the air while the cycle flips to the other direction. Then on the down force of electrons, the workpiece gets most of its heat input. This AC, 50/50 cleaning/heating cycle works wonderfull for tig and welding techniques in which the tip is non-consumable. In DC, IF you were to run standard polarity, then about 90% of heat is in the work, and the electrons go towards the work almost constantly. This requires a very small tungsten, and can makeup for a smaller power output machine. <--- tig mode The downfall, is that their is NO cleaning of the alluminum base AT ALL! Now, in DC, if you were to run reverse polarity, then the heat would be concentrated 90% at the tip of the torch, requiring massive massive tungsten. It would take lots and lots of energy to perform the same welding task. The benefit, is that the aluminum can be extremely oxidized, and still come out beautiful, because there is sooooo much cleaning action from the arc itself. so, lots of power for small clean pretty welds. very expensive to run too. <--- tig also. Now for DC mig applications (and spoolguns), you get the best of both worlds! in reverse polarity, (normal for all mig, I believe, maybee...) The DC pulls the oxides away from the base metal, and into the inert gas plume all the time. Now, because the electrode (wire) is constantly melting, it does not overheat! (like tungsten would) then the hot molten wire is deposited on clean base metal as the heat is focused at the wire. This does require a bit more energy then steel because alluminum moves the heat so well away from the weld, and also because the polarity wastes energy in cleaning (not a waste, as it's soooo important for alluminums) Hope this helps! So, what I am planning on doing, is getting an MK used, push pull wire feeder setup for alluminum, a push pull gun, and then a standard wire feeder for steel. This way I don't have to swap setups, and have the best of both worlds! Now, some machines have computer programs i.e. pulsing and pulse on pulse, that when setup correctly, can produce fantasticly beautifull mig welds. The miller 350P and lincoln 350 MP can both run a push/pull gun out of it's own cabinet, without any modifications. The 350 MP has the same "brains" as the Invertec 350 V Pro. The invertec is purely a power supply, and produces much much more power output, but the waveform is near the same as the 350 MP. The 350MP is an actuall combo feeder/power supply unit. Your talking 4,500$ for the mp350 or 350P. (the 350 is misleading a bit) on th invertec, the 350 is at 60% duty cycle. The mp350 and 350P have a maximun rated output of 350. So really a 350 invertec could be called an invertec 425, if they followed their new adopted labeling style. I hope this makes sence. I crunched the numbers, and the invertec 350 is a much better deal per watt output, even including a new mig gun and feeder in the numbers. (model L-72) Also, the invertec has not only higher amps, but significantly higher voltage for stick applications and such. Now if they were out for 3 or 4 years, then I would have opted for them, in a used version for cost reasons. You are getting a fantasticly versital machine. You can weld every metal in all thicknesses realistic for 1 phase power. It's just that alluminum would be much better with mig/spoolgun. Everything else can be readily welded in the other processes. (alluminum stick welding sucks big time ) it's not a science, it's an art. I( hope this helps) Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:New or used, all MK products are xpensive They are in high demand because they work. And usually, you won't find both a great price and good-used at the same time with this product. Yes you can run mild steel wires through the mk setup as well. to my knowledge. for wire feeders, MOST wire feeders of most manufacturers will work well with this machine. This machine does use a synergic feature and controls a newer age wire feeder more accurately, but will work perfectly fine with an older model. also will reply later... short on time. Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:I "shopped" a bit on the web and I think what makes the most sense for me is to get the LF-72 wire feeder and the MK spool gun. There is a guy here in our little burg who has a push/pull setup so I'm going to look him up and see what he has to say about using it with other (than aluminum) wire...and how easy it it to switch back and forth between wire types. The MK propaganda makes it sound like a breeze. I used a spool gun (not a MK) to finish the aluminum boxes on the rally bike and it worked well, but was a little clumsy and I think somewhat heavier than the MK model, but I'm sure one would get used to it.j Originally Posted by Sparkeee24New or used, all MK products are xpensive They are in high demand because they work. And usually, you won't find both a great price and good-used at the same time with this product. Yes you can run mild steel wires through the mk setup as well. to my knowledge. for wire feeders, MOST wire feeders of most manufacturers will work well with this machine. This machine does use a synergic feature and controls a newer age wire feeder more accurately, but will work perfectly fine with an older model. also will reply later... short on time. Brian Lee Sparkeee24
Reply:I have two sets of stingers. One is a Lenco, the other is a bernard short stub. it's really all personal preference so long as the amperage ratings are matched tothe machines rated output. A magnetic ground clamp is really nice to have, though not at all neccesary, and yes one ground clamp will work for all your processes. Miller makes awesome spool guns also. I do not know if steel can be run in a spool gun. it was my understanding that they were only used for alluminum (though I have not researched any on spoolguns really) I was going to hold out for a push pull setup. It'll take me a few months for the cash. I have a leed on a push/pull gun for 1,175 as a demo from a local shop. It's a python plus. I would probably have to buy the cabinet new. Just saving up. I am no expert though. just a weekend warrior. Have you considered what tig torch you may be interested in? I found one that weldcraft makes rated at 300 amps without water cooler! It's not big and bulky either. It has a gas control valve on it, and it's pretty sweet. They are proud of them though. It's a (26) series torch body. As far as torch pieces go, I like the kits from CK industries. They're also local home town company in WA state. You can go to CK site, and they will cross reverence the torch body style, with all the part numbers for individual or kits that will fit your torch style. When you get there. Another thing to consider is your electrode choice in particular. I really like the 6011 more for ac, and 6013 more for dc. I also really really like the 7014, now THAT is a sweet rod! And the 7024 for alot of weld material. The 7018 has some special neads in drying ovens that make it a lil bit annoying if you only burn 20 sticks or so at a time. 7018 is a low hydrogen rod. Is sucks in moisture from the surrounding air. It makes some of the best welds, in the widest range of materials, xray quality and such. But usually, for our types of purposes and conditions for welding, a 7014 will do anything a 7018 will. Usually. I have had great luck with Hobart rods. I have tried Lincoln rods, and they just don't seem to work as well for me for some reason. Don;t know. They're more expensive too. I pay 1.70$ a pound for bulk loose rods at grandma/grandpa welding supply. Hobarts. Well, take care, happy welding! time for me to go spend some time with my new machine! |
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发表于 2021-9-1 01:01:36