stick welder or mig welder? Please help

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Hello,I was wanting to know if I should buy a stick welder or a mig welder. I will be building wild hog traps out of 1 to 1 1/2 inch square tubing and angle iron that is 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick. I was told that the stick welders tend to "stick"to square tubing, is this true? What size of a welder do I need? I dont want to buy one that is too small that wont make strong welds.Thanks,jdw
Reply:What is the wall thickness of the tubing?  As mentioned on the other board, I recommend the GMAW process for the least expensive long term.  If you can't swing a MM210, get a MM175.  Sometimes there are good deals on reconditioned older Hobart HH175's also, but I don't see them listed at www.toolking.com anymore, though they have the newer HH180's, new and reconditioned.  Good prices, $8 shipping, no tax.CO2 is more than up to the task, and a lot cheaper than the argon mixes, but you may need a CO2 regulator as the argon ones often work, but sometimes freeze.Thin tubing is possible with a Stick welder, but it takes a good bit of experience, and a lot of chipping of spatter and brushing of smoke.
Reply:It depends on what you want to spend and how you want to weld.  A stick welder will be less expensive and much lower maint. over the long haul.  Sticking to the metal is common if you are just starting out and don't know what to do to correct it, but once you get things going, it is less and less a problem.  Sticking mostly occurs when you are trying to start the welding arc (striking the arc).Wire feeders (mig) will cost good bit more and you will need a pretty good one to weld 1/4 with ease.  Personally, I like stick, but lots of guys here started out on mig and they are equally happy with mig.  Mig has a lot of nice features, one of the largest benefits is it's much cleaner (no flux to remove after the weld).I have both, but I still use stick most...just personal preference...Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Originally Posted by smithboyA stick welder will be less expensive and much lower maint. over the long haul.  ....I have both, but I still use stick most...just personal preference...
Reply:stick welder all the wayby the time the bottles and regulators and the aparatice you need to operate in the field...vs a stick welder?(when properly used)its a no brainer ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:let alone what will happen when you run out of gas sat afternoonand can't get any untill monday morning...when they get around to it?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I get 10lb boxes of 6011, 6013, 7014 and 7018 for about $15-$20.  I forget the deposition rate of stick, but I remember mig is nearly 100%, so mig is more efficient by far, granted...but even at 100% deposition, 10lbs of mig wire now costs about $20-$25 to your door, and a cylinder of gas to run that much wire is around the same price (ballpark $25).  I don't use straight co2, so maybe a bit less there.  Fluxcore is about $50 for the same size.  I guess I can't see how, if you don't count time, mig is cheaper.  In larger quantities, both mig and stick get cheaper...but, that's for much larger quantities.  That doesnt include tips, nozzles, rollers and liners (not much for each roll...probably factor in a couple of bucks for wear).Is there something I am missing?  It wouldn't be the first time.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I just noticed that jdw says that his angle is up to 1/4 inch thick...is that right???  Are you really using 1/4 thick angle for hog traps?Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:jdw; given what you describe I'd have to agree with MAC702.   Well except for the welder itself as I'd reccoemnd a Lincoln 175 SP as a minimal investment.     But we don't want to digress into a Lincoln Miller argument here.    An upgrade to a larger unit would likely be a good idea if you can afford it.   As to the sticking issue, well you can have all sorts of issues with any welding process.   Yep even MIG has its issues, but you learn to work with them and as your skills increase they often disappera as a major problem.   However with a mig you can have much better luck on thinner gage materials esepcially at avoiding burn throughs.   The good thing is that in the thicker ranges you are inquiring about a small MIG will be able to handle them also.That is a 220 volt 175 amp machine will handle 1/8" steel very well and do nearly as well on 1/4" thick steel.    The biggest issue you may run into on a machine of this size would be duty cycle if you where doing alot of 1/4" material all at once.    I do mean alot.     To get a better understanding of the different machines and their capabilities get on Lincolns web site and download some of the info there.    Ok you can do the same thing on Millers site also.   For an example of duty cycle, Miler rates their 175 at 130 amps as 30% duty cycle and suggest that that is suitable for 1/4" steel.    This from Millers 2006 full line catelog (don't ask why I have a Miller catelog on my desk and not a Lincoln).    In any event you may find yourself operating above that 130 amp range so your duty cycle will go down.    I believe Miller is being optimistc with their ratings, as are all vendors, this is why I would have to say that a 175 amp machine should be seen as a minimal machine for 1/4" steel, esepcially if you expect to do this as a money makeing enterprise.    By the way I'm not talking about them being optimistic about their duty cycle (30% @ 130 amps), that is something they can nail down pretty good, what I'm concerned about is the current rating you would actually use to weld 1/4" steel and the duty cycle there.The only part of this equation that has been left out is the thickness of the steel tubing you will use.    At some point, thickness wise, you will be forced to go with a higher amperage MIG or a stick solution.    That is something to think about.   One sure way to beat this problem is to buy a multiprocess welder such as Lincolns 350MP.   This being a MIG welder and a stick weder in one nice little roll around pacakage.     A bit more money (acutally a lot more money) but you end up with an industrial MIG that can handle most of your fab work and stick and TIG capability for a lot ot the rest.ThanksDaveLast edited by wizard; 06-08-2006 at 03:16 PM.
Reply:Thanks for all of the info. Actually, I will be making traps out of 1/8 inch angleand tubing. But I said I would be welding 1/4 inch metal just in case I do.thanksjdw
Reply:I gotta go with MIG as well. I started out on stick and go back to it frequently when it is called for. I prefer wire now. I have  two feeders for my Bobcat and they get used more than anything. I just finished a truck frame job. I shudder to think how long that would have taken with stick. With the dual shield wire, I estimated it took less than half the time to complete as it would have with stuck and way less clean-up. I prefer ease of operation over cost effectiveness. If I am out there beating my head against something, I could care less if it was the cheap way to go...  I want to work smart, not hard. Just my two cents.
Reply:For his project MIG is the way to go!  Since I bought my SP175 I havent even touched my stick welder.
Reply:I agree w/ Ruben on the mig. 1/8" can be welded w/ stick but the FF(frustration factor) can run quite high without a lot of experience. I have a MM 175 but still rely on the AC/DC stick for anything 1/4" or thicker. I just don't want to have any doubts about penetration on thicker iron projects.                    MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:do you guys realize that "penetration" is overratted , or mis  understood ? only 1/16"  penetration is fine , if it's perfect . too much penetrating is detremental ,when it's more than necessary . the trouble with mig , is that every parameter needs to be PERFECT . but, that's not too dificult ,if everything is done right . Too much penetration cause too big of heat affected area. that's bad . you don't want to "cook" the metal .
Reply:Hi, I will be welding 14 gauge sqaure tubing but I dont know what size flux core wire I need to use.thanksjdw
Reply:.030" is preferred, but I've done it with .035" and .045" when they were all I had.
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodgesdo you guys realize that "penetration" is overratted .
Reply:Yeah, i guess  "if a little is good , more is better , and too much is just right ? "    when the back side blisters from burn through , then that's  "enough ?"