New welder. Dumb question...

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Can you weld galv. steel?  Anything different about the set up? Thanks.
Reply:you can...with regular electrodes.  Word of warning...metal fume fever.   This stuff is very dangerous.  The zinc burns out and the smoke is very poisonious.  The welding setup is exactly the same as is for welding of mild steels, but you do need more ventalation, preferrably a respirator, and do not do this in an enclosed area regardless of what you do.  If you do thats your business but I highly recommend against it.  This stuff can kill you given the right amount of it getting into your system.  For more info on metal fume fever do a search on "metal fume fever"  you might have second thoughts or atleast take the job a lil more seriously. But to answer your question no extra welding equipment needed.  Its just steel with galvanize(zinc mostly) so its generally thinner material..but not always, and it is crappy to weld on besides the obvious.  It burns...catches fire.  The zinc does.  So this is an annoyance and on things like EMT and fence pipe the wall is soo thin this leads to making it touuger to weld.  Still, can be done.  Will leave a white coating after youve welded.  Cleans off with wire brush and sometimes less.  Are you going to mig or stick it?   I prefer stick with a 3/32" 6011 rod.  Just  personal preference though.Good luck and be carefulIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:You might even want to grind off the coating to weld and then use cold galvanizing spray afterwards.  If it's the shinney galv., you can just paint.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:You can go to the web site:   www.shopfloortalk.comThere is a thread, on this site, that talks about one of it's members that just passed away because of  "metal fume fever" that had years of experience welding and just happened to get caught. Interesting reading.Last edited by Diverbill45; 03-21-2006 at 05:57 PM.
Reply:Babydaddy, ................. Seeing that I have been in the welding business and around construction for over 36 years and have done quite a bit of repair welding on different metals and equiptment, my suggestion  is: STAY AWAY FROM GALVANIZE. You can grind it off, wear a respirator, use good ventilation or what ever you want to do, but the bottom line is that if the zinc gets into your system, and it will, you are going to DAMAGE YOUR BODY, Welding is bad enough on the body as it is, so why try to add to it. When I"m ever asked to weld galvanize, I always say to find someone else that wants to take that kind of chance. I once lost a job because I refused to weld on a bunch of galvanize. There is no paycheck big enough or needed that bad, for me to weld galvanize. If you ever see a person get "metal fume fever" or zinc poisoning, you'll never weld on it again. It does and will damage your body and it can also kill you.I know there's guys out there that say "I've welded galvanize and it hasn't hurt me." Well that maybe so, but the point they're missing is, that when you get zinc in your system and it builds up enough, sooner or later there's going to be a reaction, and it won't be good. Look at the big deal about lead based paints and why they're now banned. Lead in large enough doses causes cancer and other ailments. Zinc is a heavy material that once enters the body, can't be flushed out and a buildup over a period of time, and no doctor can tell you how much of a buildup or what time frame it will take, since everybody reacts to situations differently, will cause major health problems and death, but AT A MUCH FASTER RATE. I'd suggest that some research on zinc and it's effect on the body be done before deciding to take on welding this material.Now I know that this can be debated by others, just as "is the glass half full or half empty" can be debated until H**L frezzes over, but the bottom line is, I don't feel that I want to take that much MORE of a chance, as some others do, with my life. This comes from years of experience, in the welding trade, and the loss of a few friends that didn't think it could happen to them.YOU BE THE JUDGE. It's just my opinion, or my 2 cents worth.
Reply:Wow, that's good to know! I've done some welding to galvanized fence posts before, no mask, but outside. I guess I won't be doing that anymore.Thanks for the info!!!Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!
Reply:Actually, zinc in the body is not as much a problem as the type of zinc (its oxide) and how it enters the body (via lungs).  Breathing the smoke/fumes is the source of metal fume fever. Zinc is eliminated from the body over time, but too much, too fast is what causes the poisoning.  Multi-vitamin tablets contains zinc and so does many caugh drops.  Zinc is also used in dandruff shampoo and in sunblock...but, there are recomended exposure limits, and this is NOT to say your SHOULD approach the limits.But if you do grind, do your best to completely remove the coating far enough from the weld that you do not substantially heat up the nearby unground surface (a couple of inches from the closest weld at a minumum).  And wear a mask/respirator to avoid inhaling the dust when grinding and fumes welding.  Vent the area.  When I have to weld this stuff, I use stick so I can run a fan directly at the weld and away from me...stay out of the plume.  Also, if you are dealing with pipe or something that's coated inside and out, the fumes WILL develop from the coating inside at and near the weld, so just grinding outside will not provide you too much protection form the zinc burning inside...The thread spoken of earlier IS factual, but it also represents an extreme case both in terms of reaction and exposure, but that doesn't mean it can't happen again or that you might not have a equally bad reaction with even lower exposure.  However, zinc, by itself, is not the danger, BURNING ZINC is the danger.  If you really need to weld this stuff, you probably should search more and read all the precautions that are used.  I have had my one and only episode with this (unwittingly) and it is not pleasant, to say the least...and, my case was mild in comparison with others I have read about.  Good information and an awareness/fear of the dangers are the tools you use to avoid potentially life-threatening mistakes.  First read all the warnings and suggested precautions, then read the last link about zinc as a essential nutrient.  This link is from the CDC and contains a bunch of information about both the different effects of too much and too little zinc, along with the dangers of metal fume fever.  It also talks about how necessary zinc is for your body to function...Unfortunately, like many things in life...You CAN have too much of a good thing.  Just like iron in the body, too little and you are sick, and too much is toxic.Last of all, if you feel that you are unable to take all the proper precautions, I would follow Diverbill's advice and just stay away from the stuff.  Your health is more important than any weekend project.http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-25.PDFhttp://www.haz-map.com/inhalati.htmhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsumhttp://www.weldweb.com/safety.php?articleID=8http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp60-c2.pdfLast edited by smithboy; 03-21-2006 at 08:16 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Having been alerted recently to the danger of fumes, on the odd occasion I'm working with galvanised steel I do it outside.Scott
Reply:i'm glad i asked that dumb question.  i've got enough issues with my lungs right now.  i'll stay away from galv. and wear a respirator all the time.  thanks for saving a life.
Reply:babydaddy, FYI that was NOT a dumb question.I've used electical conduit (EMT) for a couple of projects ... very carefully it's galvanised.  Fluxcore outside and upwind.My angle grinder is my best friend!
Reply:Just to clear up matters: We, as welders, suck up enough different types of fumes, over a lifetime, to do enough damage to ourselves, no matter what type of protection we use, so why should we add zinc to the mixture, if we don't REALLY have to. Zinc, in our systems, does have benifits, but what I was  talking about was the dangers of zinc entering the body through the welding process.All the above information posted is true and should be seriously thought over, before welding on zinc.Oh yea, the only dumb question is the one you think is too dumb to ask.
Reply:Originally Posted by Diverbill45Babydaddy, ................. Seeing that I have been in the welding business and around construction for over 36 years and have done quite a bit of repair welding on different metals and equiptment, my suggestion  is: STAY AWAY FROM GALVANIZE. You can grind it off, wear a respirator, use good ventilation or what ever you want to do, but the bottom line is that if the zinc gets into your system, and it will, you are going to DAMAGE YOUR BODY, Welding is bad enough on the body as it is, so why try to add to it. When I"m ever asked to weld galvanize, I always say to find someone else that wants to take that kind of chance. I once lost a job because I refused to weld on a bunch of galvanize. There is no paycheck big enough or needed that bad, for me to weld galvanize. If you ever see a person get "metal fume fever" or zinc poisoning, you'll never weld on it again. It does and will damage your body and it can also kill you.I know there's guys out there that say "I've welded galvanize and it hasn't hurt me." Well that maybe so, but the point they're missing is, that when you get zinc in your system and it builds up enough, sooner or later there's going to be a reaction, and it won't be good. Look at the big deal about lead based paints and why they're now banned. Lead in large enough doses causes cancer and other ailments. Zinc is a heavy material that once enters the body, can't be flushed out and a buildup over a period of time, and no doctor can tell you how much of a buildup or what time frame it will take, since everybody reacts to situations differently, will cause major health problems and death, but AT A MUCH FASTER RATE. I'd suggest that some research on zinc and it's effect on the body be done before deciding to take on welding this material.Now I know that this can be debated by others, just as "is the glass half full or half empty" can be debated until H**L frezzes over, but the bottom line is, I don't feel that I want to take that much MORE of a chance, as some others do, with my life. This comes from years of experience, in the welding trade, and the loss of a few friends that didn't think it could happen to them.YOU BE THE JUDGE. It's just my opinion, or my 2 cents worth.
Reply:Jim, I didn't take any offense to your statement. I was just relaying over 36 years of experience to new or less experienced welders. Over that period of time  there were mistakes made, but I guess I can say I was lucky. KNOWLEDGE COMES WITH EXPERIENCE, and since I now teach welding, as an apprenticeship instructor, I just don't want anyone else to make some of the same mistakes.Last edited by Diverbill45; 03-22-2006 at 01:06 AM.
Reply:I agree its not a dumb question...no question is a dumb question if its asked.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Your point is well taken, Diverbill.  There are enough things that are out there we don't know about waiting to do us damage...no need to seek out situations that add to the risk if it isn't absolutely necessary.  And, there is something to be said about the fact that you have been in the welding biz as long as I have been alive...to have made it this far and still be doing it, you must have something on your side...I am guessing it's not just luck .Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Bills the top of 3 generations of welders...dont know what came before Bill...but hes not just thinkin about himself in this.  Hes got a son who welds.  And hes got a grandson who welds.  Bill wants to think of his grandson living to a ripe old age without anything happening to him that could have been prevented.  As such, he figures most folks wouild feel the same way.  Always good to hear from Bill.  He does yield wisdom even if we dont hear from him too much  IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:SB, ........ When I first got started in the welding trade, I always watched the older guys and if I had questions I'd also ask them how they would approach different situations. I learned quite a bit of information and some unseen hazards that accompany different tasks. I guess it goes back to my dad, who was always there and showing me how to do certain things, as I was growing up. He  passed on information, that at the time I thought was way off the wall, but in later years, came true. As my own sons were growing up, I pretty much did the same thing. Now that they have their own families, they tell me that situations and problems that we had discussed, when they were younger, had come around in their later lives and they remembered the talks we had had, about the subject, took that info and figured out how to make things work out.Here's one that my dad passed on to me years ago and I have used it quite often AND IN MOST CASES IT WORKS. It's kinda funny, BUT IT WORKS. If you're given a real hard job to do, and want to figure out the easiest way to do it, just find the laziest guy on the job site and most of the time he can tell you. I know it sounds crazy, but just think about it. I've used this approach before and it does seem to apply.  Just one of life's experiences.I am now teaching one of my grandsons to weld (he's 12 years old) and doing pretty good. My son, who is an electrican, and I are surprised how fast he catching on and enjoying it. I've had him welding on a few projects that I've done and I must say, if he gets much better I might have to go back to school. Right now we are in the process of building a mini sandrail that will be powered by a 900-1000 cc motorcycle engine. He's just starting to learn how to TIG weld.  I hope that by the time he's old enough to get a partime job in high school, he can be good enough to weld in a fab shop and not flip hamburgers at some McDonalds for low wages. There's a couple of contractors, here in town, that I know personally and have done some work for, that will help him out when the time comes. I took an early retirement from the pipefitters and decided to join the boilermakers last year and just work a few 1 to 2 week shutdowns each year. This keeps me active in the trade, besides what I have going on in my shop, and the shutdown paychecks are REAL GOOD. Believe me, it's sure nice to now work when you want to.When the time comes to check out, I plan on having everything that I came into this world with. This is where luck has come into the picture, so far I still have everything except for a couple of teeth, some hair loss and 20/20 eye site. So yea, I guess I can say I've been lucky, since I have worked in one of the most dangerous and hazardous trades a person can work in. The only thing I can say is, don't try to compound the danger of the work environment that we, as welders, work in everyday, by not doing the job SAFELY.Here's a few photos of my grandson Nick (scooter) making a couple of welds  and a O/A cut on a past project. Hope everyone enjoys the pics. Photo #1 Making a small weld.         #2 One of his welds.         #3 O/A cut.         #4 O/A cut finished before grinding.         #5 Another weld. Attached Images
Reply:I can say for a fact, that burger flipping is not the way to go...not even for a teenager.  Better watch out, he might be the one you go asking for a few days work soon.Funny you should mention the "Lazy Guy" theory.  I completely subscribe to it already.  If you move on up the food chain, the same idea is stated the following way:"A good manager delegates."That's the same as saying, the best manager is one who knows which lazy person to give his work to.  I will not say where I fit in this arrangement...but, I am somewhere in there.  In fact, I think I might have played both roles.Last edited by smithboy; 03-22-2006 at 03:43 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Well, hi there Chris.  Thanks for the comments, but I'm really not a welder, I've just spent 36 years trying to make my next weld look and be better than my last weld. Believe me, I'm still learning.How's everything in Texas. I've been trying to keep up with all the fire problems you guys are having. I've even wished that some of this rain we've had would relocate to your area, but ...............  . Hope you haven't had any damage. Just to give you an idea how much rain we had, it was stated on the news the other night that we had 224% above our average rainfall for February, over previous years, on record. Now that's one H**L of alot of rain. Had some flooding, but not bad. Do hope things get better in your area.Take care and see you on the forum.
Reply:SB, ............ That was real good.  I've gone from sweeping floors, when I first started out, to being foreman and general foreman on different jobs and in 36 years I still haven't figured where I fit in the food chain.Sorry SB, I just saw where you are located and I hope that those fires haven't caused you any problems either.Last edited by Diverbill45; 03-22-2006 at 03:55 PM.
Reply:murietic acid will eat off the plating but it must be immersed.  When the bubbling stops, the metal is clean.  If you are tig welding, the crap will spit and jump on your tungsten.  I always use acid to clean off the plating.  Your health is your most precious possession!
Reply:muratic acid,  good tip.  keep em coming because this stuff is invaluable for a new welder.  thanks again.  Diver, great pics.
Reply:Bill.   fires arent round here,  but weve had some in recent past.  rained all weekend and dallas had some bad flooding too much of a good thing isd bad i guessbut yeah fires are bad news.  thanks for the look out.  hope yall get a reprive from your rain though,,,,hardly think its fair...one gets burnt out the other gets floodeed,  some freeze anmd others blow awayIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:I agree with whathas been said,I ahve welded that crap several times and I guess I'm glad to see that you did ask cus the more you know the further you go, you can always learn something even if you "know" everything.Like me, I knew the reprocutions of galv welding,but I didn't know how it affected me, Thanks.  But my opinion would be based on the amount to be done . If you were thinking of a career  or just the fencepost that I backed into last night, and with all these responces you should be able to make a educated  decision
Reply:Let me repeat AGAIN, what O S H A  says: if you need a respirator , a mask is NOT legal. BY respirator ,i mean a real one with the two cartridges on it - & use the cartridges INDICATED  for the exact job you're doing . The masks (cheap ones with just an elastic band to hold it on ) do not fit good enough . they are only maybe 17 per cent efficient , as opposed to maybe 97 per cent for a properly fit cartridge type, and the cartridge type comes (usually) in 2 or even 3 different sizes . the cheapies don't . The cheap ones are only LEGAL , when NO respirator is required . they are just listed as suitable for "personal comfort" - meaning a pacifier . And , more than one days whiskers on yer face ruins the effectiveness of the respirator .To add to Roy Hodges advice on respirator selection, the filters are the most important part. P-100(HEPA) dust filters will do absolutely nothing for welding fumes of any kind. They only stop 99.97% of dust particles, and 0% of fumes. A clean shave is absolutely essential for it to work also. Make sure to read the fine print on the package for the cartridges, and also that they are made for that particular respirator. Most cartridges for fumes are "stacks", and should say on the label that they are recommended for dusts, fumes, and mists. It should also say which fumes and mists it's made for. Beyond that, a good rule of thumb is, if you can smell what you're trying to avoid, something's wrong. Cinch up the straps, do a positive(cover the exhalation valve and blow(careful not to blow your ears out)) pressure check, a negative pressure check(cover the filters and inhale), make sure the filters are attached properly, and try again. It would be a good idea to do this before you start also.Get the right size. If your face is average, medium should do. If you have a large nose, or protruding chin, don't be afraid to try a large. NIOSH is another organization that has a lot of info on respirator selection and usage. I'm not positive, but they probably have a website.Hope this helps, and good luck if you choose to do this.